Observation on Diplomacy

[Grautvornix]

Small observation on Alpha 27 RC2 (may not be new, may not be a bug by any means, just did not experience it before):

While still paying my tributes to create an alliance, my potential new ally offered the alliance right away for free (while I did not finish paying).

I certainly accepted. and then I had a strange combination of messages "welcome as my new ally" and "if you are not paying the tribute, there will be no alliance" afterwards. Seems that there are rare occasions where two concurrent processes appear.

Did anyone experience the same?

The only way to verify that an alliance is actually in place seems to be by researching the "uncover your ally's map" feature.

My own diplomacy settings of alliance/neutral/adversary are certainly only single-sided settings and do not reflect the actual mutual state in game. (i.e. believing we are allied does not mean we are in fact - visible when a previous neutral partner cancels neutrality and starts attacking while my own diplomacy settings are not yet changed to "adversary". this has to be done manually).

I would be interested to know if there are other means to know the real actual status. Thank you very much!

[phosit]

Could you attach the replay-file?

[Grautvornix]

Unfortunately not - my son was playing in between and the file is overwritten. I will keep an eye on it and whenever I find that again I'll submit the replay. Should've stored it right away.

[Grautvornix]

Stupid me - it is certainly not overwritten! Here it is (hope these are the correct files)

commands.txtmetadata.json

Thanks @phosit for looking into this!

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Did you pay the amount and assuage his nag? lol

[Grautvornix]

Almost (800/1000), but in between he offered the alliance for free (which I never saw before), so I accepted and he confirmed. After that he reminded me of paying the remaining tribute. Most likely a glitch somewhere in the code? Concurrent processes? First time I saw it.

Interesting enough that I was not able to confirm we actually had an alliance after he confirmed it (before we were just neutral) other than researching the "view your ally's map" technology.

Basically it may be seen as an element of suspense or strategy to only know the diplomatic relationship I set myself and not  the actual status.

Like sometimes (rarely) a previously neutral civ declares war on me and becomes an enemy but I cannot fight back until I switch my own diplomatic relationship from neutral to "adversary".

Hence I am not sure this is actually a bug but possibly intended?

[Obelix]

Hey Grautvornix,

some two and a half years ago I had an usual experience when a competitor still wanted tribute from me for friendship even though I was defeated in the meanwhile. Maybe it's related:

 

[Grautvornix]

Thanks! Sounds indeed kind of related. The diplomacy system is something possibly using different actors - human players and PETRA.

When you as a player start a diplomacy process the game has possibly kind of a timer and never checks if the process itself was not applicable anymore or some state has changed substantially? Could I as the initiator of alliance building change my state and the AI would react correctly? (like switching from alliance to neutral and back. Would I get the same request for tribute or a different one or would PETRA deny an alliance?)

In my reported case I would guess that there might be two competing processes that both don't really consider status change:

1. a diplomacy process initiated by me asking for alliance and in consequence having to pay tributes.
2. a second, independent process initiated by PETRA AI that is asking for an alliance for free (randomly triggered?) 

Does anyone know?

Otherwise I would be curious and will be testing what happens in various cases. Will keep you posted.