Batch attack (similar to batch training but for attacking)

[ufa]

Maybe a naive thought, but I wondered if something like having a batch key but for attacking (like shift + option + click) would be useful, and perhaps a nice middle ground between the necessity to snipe and dislike of repetitive clicking hundreds of times (and by extension the desire of some to entirely automate the behavior). So, you could send 2, 4, 6, or 10 units to attacking with a single click.

I don't really know what the implications of this would be—besides imagining it would be useful—so curious what others think. Ideally the variable itself would be modifiable in the menu to a user's liking similar to the current batch variable.

Edit: I'd forgotten shift is used for building things in queue, but used it as an example as it's the batch key for training units. Could be any key.

Edited August 19, 2023 by ufa

[Atrik]

Spoiler

You would just need to mod this. /mods/public/gui/session/input.js#L1161

function popOneFromSelection(action)
{
    // Pick the first unit that can do this order.
    let unit = action.firstAbleEntity || g_Selection.find(entity =>
        ["preSelectedActionCheck", "hotkeyActionCheck", "actionCheck"].some(method =>
            g_UnitActions[action.type][method] &&
            g_UnitActions[action.type][method](action.target || undefined, [entity])
        ));
    if (unit)
    {
        g_Selection.removeList([unit], false);
        return [unit];
    }
    return null;
}

=>

function popMoreFromSelection(action)
{
	const setting = Engine.ConfigDB_GetValue("user", "[yoursetting]");
	let units = new Array();
      for (let i = 0; i < setting; i++){
        let unit = action.firstAbleEntity || g_Selection.find(entity =>
            ["preSelectedActionCheck", "hotkeyActionCheck", "actionCheck"].some(method =>
                g_UnitActions[action.type][method] &&
                g_UnitActions[action.type][method](action.target || undefined, [entity])
            ));
        if (unit)
        {
            g_Selection.removeList([unit], false);
            units.push(unit);

        }
      }
	units.length ? units : null;
}

And replace or add it the function here /gui/session/input.js#L320.

Congrats you now have a way to do 5x faster sniping. Very boring however. It's not even as good as unit rebalance as a mitigation if you ask me.
 

Spoiler

Nope, we can't touch at sniping.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Atrik

[ufa]

21 hours ago, Atrik said:

  Reveal hidden contents

You would just need to mod this. /mods/public/gui/session/input.js#L1161

function popOneFromSelection(action)
{
    // Pick the first unit that can do this order.
    let unit = action.firstAbleEntity || g_Selection.find(entity =>
        ["preSelectedActionCheck", "hotkeyActionCheck", "actionCheck"].some(method =>
            g_UnitActions[action.type][method] &&
            g_UnitActions[action.type][method](action.target || undefined, [entity])
        ));
    if (unit)
    {
        g_Selection.removeList([unit], false);
        return [unit];
    }
    return null;
}

=>

function popMoreFromSelection(action)
{
	const setting = Engine.ConfigDB_GetValue("user", "[yoursetting]");
	let units = new Array();
      for (let i = 0; i < setting; i++){
        let unit = action.firstAbleEntity || g_Selection.find(entity =>
            ["preSelectedActionCheck", "hotkeyActionCheck", "actionCheck"].some(method =>
                g_UnitActions[action.type][method] &&
                g_UnitActions[action.type][method](action.target || undefined, [entity])
            ));
        if (unit)
        {
            g_Selection.removeList([unit], false);
            units.push(unit);

        }
      }
	units.length ? units : null;
}

And replace or add it the function here /gui/session/input.js#L320.

Nice.

21 hours ago, Atrik said:

Congrats you now have a way to do 5x faster sniping. Very boring however. It's not even as good as unit rebalance as a mitigation if you ask me.

Nice. Why not both?

[Atrik]

7 minutes ago, ufa said:

Nice. Why not both?

For sure, could help. It's not that bad to help the problem, but it's weird to want to avoid so badly any feature that would make sniping simply a unit behavior you can use.

[ufa]

2 hours ago, Atrik said:

For sure, could help. It's not that bad to help the problem, but it's weird to want to avoid so badly any feature that would make sniping simply a unit behavior you can use.

Seems like you're projecting or referring to threads other than this one, which isn't about auto-sniping. In fact I've never posted against auto-sniping in that thread, the points I made there (again, another thread) were about mod transparency. Take up your issues with the people actually vocally opposed to your suggestions, in the places where that's being discussed.

[0 calories]

On 19/08/2023 at 5:15 AM, ufa said:

Maybe a naive thought, but I wondered if something like having a batch key but for attacking (like shift + option + click) would be useful, and perhaps a nice middle ground between the necessity to snipe and dislike of repetitive clicking hundreds of times (and by extension the desire of some to entirely automate the behavior). So, you could send 2, 4, 6, or 10 units to attacking with a single click.

I don't really know what the implications of this would be—besides imagining it would be useful—so curious what others think. Ideally the variable itself would be modifiable in the menu to a user's liking similar to the current batch variable.

Edit: I'd forgotten shift is used for building things in queue, but used it as an example as it's the batch key for training units. Could be any key.

get mouse with  multiple buttons and try use autohotkey... all you need to make repetive stuff more automated...

 

[Atrik]

1 hour ago, 0 calories said:

get mouse with  multiple buttons and try use autohotkey... all you need to make repetive stuff more automated...

That's right, you can even use few different small piece of software and bind sequences of clicks to a hotkey and get same result as this thread suggestion, even without a gaming mouse.

That's the problem with this weak game mechanic: 'sniping'. It's just here in the first place because devs didn't thought about making a feature to change attack behavior, and now players adapted the meta and think the game was intentionally design to make you have to click 120 times as fast as possible as part of the gameplay. No, really, we need to push for the game to dish sniping all together and metas/suggestions for more interesting game mechanics will come up.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Atrik

[Atrik]

If any of the current stance like:
  'flee' => move away from attacker
didn't exist, players feeling would also be that adding such a stance will be automation.


 'attack weak' => prioritize attacking weak units in range
Is a simple, and more useful stance then 'violent'.

[ufa]

I'm curious if, outside of modifying the game with extra code, mouse buttons, third party software:

[TBD keyboard key] + option + click * [numerical value in settings] = [numerical value in settings] amount of troops attacking the unit clicked on

would be the sort of thing that could become a core part of the game. What shift clicking is to batch training, this hotkey (in combination with a number in settings) would be to attacking. @Atrik IMO this isn't mutually exclusive with any (speculative) stances, like "attack weak," and would likely be used in addition to them.

So far the only accounts responding are me, another burner account who only replies to proGUI/auto-sniping topics (like myself), and Atrik. I guess we're all going in circles.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

3 hours ago, ufa said:

would be the sort of thing that could become a core part of the game. What shift clicking is to batch training, this hotkey (in combination with a number in settings) would be to attacking. @Atrik IMO this isn't mutually exclusive with any (speculative) stances, like "attack weak," and would likely be used in addition to them.

So basically allow the user to customize the 'order selection 1 by 1' hotkey (2 by 2, 3 by 3 etc). Perhaps the scroll wheel would be good for this as it is in batch training, although i'm not sure how the change would be communicated to the player.

[alre]

5 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

So basically allow the user to customize the 'order selection 1 by 1' hotkey (2 by 2, 3 by 3 etc). Perhaps the scroll wheel would be good for this as it is in batch training, although i'm not sure how the change would be communicated to the player.

maybe just a setting. that would mean it can't be easily changed during a match, but that's hardly a problem. a setting of two units per command seems an improvement already, and a better choice for most players than just one unit.

[Atrik]

13 hours ago, ufa said:

@Atrik IMO this isn't mutually exclusive with any (speculative) stances, like "attack weak," and would likely be used in addition to them.

If you had some overkill mitigation introduced along side this stance, like what @real_tabasco_sauce is describing here:

Spoiler

 

The concept of sniping would simply disappear, and be replaced with putting all the importance on making efficient/brutal engages. Battle line-like formations would finely make sens for infantry field battle. And hopefully, no formation would be the only go-to formation. Compared to the current meta where you use box formation, even when you have 0 chance of being flanked, where the goal is just to induce overkills.

Reminder that this stance or even overkill mitigation won't make the battle 'autoplay' AT ALL. For instance your ranged units placement on the battle field would be really important to reach units you want to focus on, even if you toggle a attack weak stance. They won't move to attack weakest units, they'll simply attack them when they get in attack range. Witch makes you having to decide when you want to trade movement to reach weaker units, and when to not.

Now, because sniping is simply a dµmb technical skill, I'll be really glad to trade it for the need of learning better tactical and strategy skills. It's true that you'll have a full sniping cycle doable under less clicks now: unit placement, and stance selection*, but it would then give room to new micro meta or ideally the introduction of new units abilities.

*still make sens to attack closest units in a lot of cases: prevent melee to reach you, or to clear front-line fast and make your melees free of movement. So 'attack weak' wouldn't be a stance you'll toggle all the time, especially not with @real_tabasco_sauce unit re-balance.

[guerringuerrin]

Some examples of how aoe2 units decide to behave in combat. Maybe you find this useful.

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I am not sure how range ties are handled or how frequent they are, but in theory when selecting the closest unit, one could round ranges to integers or to two significant figures and then choose between the ties randomly.

Edited August 23, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce