Enslaving enemy units

[Sostenedor del Cielo]

Wouldn't it be cool?

Enemy units could be more useful than just corpses.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Había una mecánica así en un mod.

No se qué tanto quiera los desarrolladores ese tema que para algunos es tabú.

[Akira Kurosawa]

7 hours ago, Sostenedor del Cielo said:

Wouldn't it be cool?

Enemy units could be more useful than just corpses.

I can't even imagine how they do it. This will only add unnecessary fuss on the battlefield. And the evacuation of a slave from the battlefield? What if the slave mine is attacked? It will be much more efficient to use a soldier than an unarmed unit. In addition, we will need a separate population scale for slaves, or even make their population capacity zero. To add a system of enslavement, it is necessary to again separate economic units from military units, as in Cossacks: BtoW or in the AoE series.

[Outis]

11 hours ago, Sostenedor del Cielo said:

Wouldn't it be cool?

Enemy units could be more useful than just corpses.

It would be very cool if and only if it could be implemented in a way that does not break the game.

Ideas:

- garrisoned units could be enslaved rather than ejected when capturing buildings

- units inside a radius of certain buildings (Only civic centers? All territory roots?) can be enslaved when those buildings are captured

- during battles, enslavement may be a mechanic when morale is implemented, for instance units are captured and enslaved when they alreay have low morale and they are completely outnumbered by enemy units by a certain percentage within a certain radius, the idea is to limit the case so it only happens at the end of a battle which is sorely lost

- there could be an option to capture unarmed units like buildings rather than killing them

Edited March 4, 2023 by Outis

[Akira Kurosawa]

18 minutes ago, Outis said:

It would be very cool if and only if it could be implemented in a way that does not break the game.

Ideas:

- garrisoned units could be enslaved rather than ejected when capturing buildings

- units inside a radius of certain buildings (Only civic centers? All territory roots?) can be enslaved when those buildings are captured

- during battles, enslavement may be a mechanic when morale is implemented, for instance units are captured and enslaved when they alreay have low morale and they are completely outnumbered by enemy units by a certain percentage within a certain radius, the idea is to limit the case so it only happens at the end of a battle which is sorely lost

- there could be an option to capture unarmed units like buildings rather than killing them

You can simply unlock the hiring of existing slave units in the game. Otherwise, the appearance of three or four unplanned slaves may take place under the ram, standing in the order queue. It's one thing - the Age of Empires 2, where a monk poachs a specific unit. But here the enslavement will be randomized.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa

[sternstaub]

6 minutes ago, Akira Kurosawa said:

You can simply unlock the hiring of existing slave units in the game.

Is there such a system already? I mean, slaves in general.

[Outis]

22 minutes ago, Akira Kurosawa said:

But here the enslavement will be randomized.

I completely agree that a randomized mechanic should be avoided. However, i think options to implement it in controlled specific cases can be entertained. We can identify the root causes for unwanted randomized behavior and avoid them.

[sternstaub]

2 hours ago, Outis said:

I completely agree that a randomized mechanic should be avoided.

Randomization is against the game design.

[Akira Kurosawa]

3 hours ago, sternstaub said:

Is there such a system already? I mean, slaves in general.

So far, I've only seen finished slave models in the Atlas. I don't know what they are in the game.

[Akira Kurosawa]

14 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Había una mecánica así en un mod.

No se qué tanto quiera los desarrolladores ese tema que para algunos es tabú.

In Conan Exiles, this was not a taboo. It wasn't taboo in Skyrim. Then why did it become taboo here?

[Lion.Kanzen]

6 minutes ago, Akira Kurosawa said:

In Conan Exiles, this was not a taboo. It wasn't taboo in Skyrim. Then why did it become taboo here?

When I proposed different races of slaves, many tore their clothes when they associated it with African slavery.

From there it was not debated more than slightly.

In Delenda Est it is implemented and in mirror mod too,those are the 2 mods where it was implemented, and of course race or skin color didn't matter.

[Akira Kurosawa]

12 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

When I proposed different races of slaves, many tore their clothes when they associated it with African slavery.

From there it was not debated more than slightly.

In Delenda Est it is implemented and in mirror mod too,those are the 2 mods where it was implemented, and of course race or skin color didn't matter.

Do they want to ban the truth about slavery in the historical game? It smacks of historical revisionism and fascism. How dare they tear out entire pages from the history of enslaved peoples, as if slavery had never existed?! Oh, they are sick racist chauvinists!

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa

[Outis]

1 hour ago, sternstaub said:

Randomization is against the game design.

I think what @Akira Kurosawa meant was the mechanic would appear random rather than intentional randomization.

10 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

When I proposed different races of slaves, many tore their clothes when they associated it with African slavery.

Here the proposal was to be able to capture and enslave the units of your opponent which is not racist, rather than create a slave unit with a specific ethnicity which could be interpreted this way.

[Akira Kurosawa]

17 minutes ago, Outis said:

I think what @Akira Kurosawa meant was the mechanic would appear random rather than intentional randomization.

I meant that if a monk deliberately captures an elephant, then he captures the elephant. And if all military units have the ability to enslave, we can inadvertently seize junk units that will become a population that will stop the production of the units we need.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa

[sternstaub]

For multiplayer, each client must get the same result for the same operation iirc. It is a deterministic game.

 

9 minutes ago, Outis said:

I think what @Akira Kurosawa meant was the mechanic would appear random rather than intentional randomization.

Still each client has to get the same result for a particular action taken. Else OOS.

[Outis]

1 hour ago, Akira Kurosawa said:

I meant that if a monk deliberately captures an elephant, then he captures the elephant. And if all military units have the ability to enslave, we can inadvertently seize junk units that will become a population that will stop the production of the units we need.

A monk converts a unit to your side as it is. I believe the idea of enslavement is to capture the enemy unit and turn it into a slave which is a labor-only unit with restrictions, in other words the slave is definitely a junk unit. Regarding population, i think it is a fair comment that they might occupy otherwise more useful capacity. I propose slave units do not count towards population (slaves are not accomodated in houses that are for citizens, they either work or sleep at their work station).

[Lion.Kanzen]

24 minutes ago, Outis said:

A monk converts a unit to your side as it is. I believe the idea of enslavement is to capture the enemy unit and turn it into a slave which is a labor-only unit with restrictions, in other words the slave is definitely a junk unit. Regarding population, i think it is a fair comment that they might occupy otherwise more useful capacity. I propose slave units do not count towards population (slaves are not accomodated in houses that are for citizens, they either work or sleep at their work station).

the problem with that is the performance within the game.

[Stan`]

20 hours ago, sternstaub said:

For multiplayer, each client must get the same result for the same operation iirc. It is a deterministic game.

While that's true we can have deterministic pseudo random numbers. For say unit randomnization