PyrrhicVictoryGuy
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Posts posted by PyrrhicVictoryGuy
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35 minutes ago, alre said:
Gelo, tyrant of Syracuse, gave citenzip to many of his mercenaries, so such a tech could be named "Gelo's reform". It could actually go as far as turning some mercenaries into citizen soldiers. In either case, such a tech would "normalize" Syracuse's economy, therefore taking away a lot of "uniqueness" from its gameplay.
Perhaps we could make it a paired tech, alternative to another inspired by another of Syracuse tyrants, "Dyonisus' hetairia" which would not change mercenaries, but would unblock the unique unit of the tyrant's guard, being it a champion that can be trained as fast as mercenaries (it could be javeliners as you proposed I guess, although I don't know why is that).
One can imagine deciding between a traditional gameplay, based more on food and wood, or a different economy entirely, when there are a lot of metal mines that can be exploited.
I have updated that first tech's description but I think giving mercs a decreased coin cost in exchange for an increased cost of other resources would work fine I think.
As for champions you mentioned i wanted them to be javelinners and swordsmen, but i don't know if this is possible, if it is then i would make them use javelins if target is more than for meters away (4 < x ) and use swords if target is within 4 meters of them ( x < 4 ).
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3 hours ago, Yekaterina said:
This is going to be a mercenary heavy civ, which means a lot of metals will be used. Therefore it is best to have some bonuses related to metal. Alternatively, we decrease the metal cost for Syracusans and replace that with something else, say food or wood.
Metal mining *sigh
I have come up with this:
Mercenary Loyalty
- All mercenaries have their metal cost decreased by 45%, their food cost increased by 30% (and maybe an addidtional cost of 20 stone)
- Cost: 200 wood 300 stone
What do u think?
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I am also concerned that i have made the heroes too OP.
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I have updated the document, namely I have added some unique techs as well as giving Gelo I some cavalry bonuses since he was famous for his role as a cavalry comander under the previous tyrant of Gela whom I believe he was related.
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20 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said:
Running of fleeing and chasing units should be replaced by walking, as its abused too much!
Agreed, nothing worse than catching your opponent in a bad position only to find that punishing him is very hard. To mitigate this annoyance I sugest taking a page out of AO3 and having units that are being attacked by melee troops having their normal run speed reduced to their walking speed.
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@alreI didn't find anything that would sugest having elephants whatsoever, although I included them for two reasons. Firstly because I wanted to spice up the mercenary roster since this is a mercenary heavy civ and lastly because they would certainly have acess to them via trade with ptolemaic egypt or with the seleucids even if very unlikely. After Pyrrhus' use of elephants and their widespread use among the eastern Greeks, Hellenistic Syracuse would be tempted to get a few of them for sure so i don't think it is a major no no.
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2 hours ago, Yekaterina said:
Some ideas:
1. New tech: maths. Effect: all ranged units are 100% accurate, because they can model the trajectory of their projectile with quadratic equations. (air resistance is negligible because of solid metal bullets
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2. New structure: Dionysius Grappling hook. Built by the shore to instantly destroy ships that go too close to it. Effectively prevents a landing.
3. New weapon: solar death ray. Causes fire damage as well as anti-siege, anti-ships.
4. New tech: water pump. Archimedes pump provides the citizens with fresh supply of clean water, as a result, all units +10% health.
I refrained from Archemides' Claw because nobody truly knows how it was built and what it looked like. The death ray would be pretty cool but the historians would immediatly raise their pitchforks.
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9 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:
This is an awesome idea and I like the creativity of having blended buildings. From this, I expect the traders of this civ to be easier to protect, and to have a more blended economy.
The only thing about the general design of the civ is that people will want to play it on land too. I love the idea of making a dock/military colony/market, but I am worried about how infrequently 0ad players in general use water maps. Perhaps there can be added a function similar to iber starting walls, where on an all land map a pond spawns somewhere along the p1 border of territory so that a syracuse playe could at least build one "fortified port". This would enable the civ to be played more comfortably on land maps.
I think this civ idea is unique and awesome. Good work
Thanks a lot ! Although it is true that other than the Guadalquivir and Donut maps water is scarse but i think giving them a pond may be too much no ? They already give a trade bonus to caravans to their entire team and already have that "super" fortress. I was afraid of making them too bloated.
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6 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Look to Archimedes and his inventions. Perhaps Mathematics, Ballistics, make Archimedes' Screw a tech instead of a bonus. Also, Syracuse was big on using mercenaries, so there's an avenue for you to explore techs (Mercenary Captains is an idea). Syracuse was first to use the Gastraphetes, so a bonus (trainable 1 phase earlier) or tech there. And feel free to crib ideas from Delenda Est.
Yeah, form what i read, the belly xbow is attributed to Dionysius' court, I like the p2 champs idea, hell even p2 heroes could be a thing. As for mercenaries tech, something like
"Mercenary loyalty", that decreases the cost of mercs by 30% , at a steep cost or a tech available after researching "expertise in war" , named "Veteran mercenaries" that upgrades all mercs to rank 3 and small health boost of 10%.
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But I am struggling with unique techs.
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1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:
Well done my friend, I start putting together the templates tomorrow.
Gotta love your enthusiasm.
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Syracusans/Sicilian Greeks Civilization Profile
Overview and Introduction
Flavour text for the struture tree
Long as Syracuse championed its citizen’s and fellow Greek’s independence, be it against Carthaginians or Romans. As a Doric colony it kept ties to other Doric cities in the Greek mainland. Although brief respites form their conflict with Carthage did occour under some of its rulers, the city's history is dominated by their wars with Carthage and other Greeks and the eventual concession of its autonomy to Rome.
For my first faction I designed so it has a less orthodox playstyle to what I became accustomed during Alpha 24, my aim was to make an amphibious and mercenary civ where a rush or semi-rush pays off. So, I tried to bring new ideas to table and these will be further discussed during the champion and hero rosters sections.
I also tried my best to make a civilization that doesn’t require too many new assets because people’s time is short.
As for the values present, these can and will probably change with each revision of this document.
Disclaimer: I do not know nor studied attic, doric and koine greek so the few names of the units that I present can and will most likely have speling errors, not be in the right order syntax wise and probably not be all from the same dialect but I tried to post this by standards of similar posts. I had images for this but they did not show up when i copied this from Word and adding them is a pain so...
#NR means not researched...,yet.
Faction Bonuses
Jewel of the Mediterranean
- Grain gather rate increased by 10% gather rate
Mercenary Loyalty
A lot of mercenaries were employed for life under some of the tyrants and not just in time of conflict like the Sileraioi who were given land and accomodations, so in a way this a precursor the cleruchy system of the sucessors.
- The metal cost of italian and iberian mercenaries ( italian swordsman, iberian swordsman, tarantine cavalry) is decreased by 45%
Team bonus:
Trade Empire
- +10% international trade goods for self and allies
Unique techs
Archemides' Screw
More water = better sanitation, better crops, more hydration = healthier and more citizens. Also in the abssence of conveyer belts water canals can and would be used to carry crude mineral chunks. Replaces the "Gather training" upgrade at the farmstead.
- Phase II, farmstead
- +10% grain gather rate for all units
- +10% faster metal collection for all units
- Cost: 300 wood 300 metal
Ballistics
- Phase III, artilery foundry
- Adds/Increases area damage on siege engines by (x) aumount and increases their projectile speed.
- 300 stone 300 metal
Archimedes Odometer
- Phase II
- Available at the CC
- Structures are built 20% faster.
- Cost: 100 stone 200 metal
Secret Police
- Phase I, sentry tower
- +10 meters of LOS ( line of sight) to all structures.
- Cost: 400 food
Solar Tower
A complementary upgrade for the sentry tower, now the player has the choice to upgrade it to the stone tower or to the Solar Tower which does reduced damage to units but excels in damaging ships and siege machines.
- Phase I, sentry tower
- Upgrades the sentry tower into the solar tower
- Cost: 150 wood 150 stone
Mamertines
- A one time, instantaneous shipment of 20 mamertines (italian swordsmen, same stats as the roman champ swordsmen) to the Tyrant's Palace.
- Available at CC, p3
- Cost: 2000 food 3000 metal
Doric camaraderie
- A one time, instantaneous shipment of 20 spartiates (spartan champ hoplite) to the Tyrant's Palace.
- Available at CC, p3
- Cost: 2000 food 3000 metal
Technology Tree
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Structures
As Syracuse was a colony of Corinth, it should heavily feature Doric Architecture, much like Sparta. Although unlike the Spartans, Corinth and Syracuse seemed to have inherited a love for monumental buildings and public works from the Attic region.
In short, make it so their buildings have the Sparta template but more embellished (and maybe replace the roof tiles with the roman ones). I don’t expect any new models to be developed ASAP for this and it is acceptable since I haven’t the skills required and am at the mercy of some good souls willing to model these.
As for buildings available, these should be standard Greek roster available to Sparta, Athens and Macedon but I do propose 2 unique/special buildings for this faction (whose names in Greek I have yet to research) and I also propose that Syracusans only be able to build/have one Civic Centre, representing Syracuse itself and making for a risk reward type thing when attacking/rushing.
Seaside Outpost/fortified port
Syracuse itself went on to expand their influence over other territories through colonies of its own although these were more akin to fortified trading posts than full blown colonies, much like the Portuguese Feitoria.
Can only be placed along shorelines and functions like a cross between a military colony and a market, where one can send caravans to.
Can’t train ships except for the merchant vessel but can heal all ships, otherwise it can train caravans, one champion and some of the mercs available to this civ.
This building will also have a technology that improves trade goods received by caravans that visit this building, again building on that risk/reward thing.
Its cost should also be between a military colony and a CC.
Tyrant’s Fortress/Palace
A reference to the fortress of Euryalos.
Essentially a better fortress that trains two of these civ’s champions(crossbowman and tyrant's bodyguard) and its heroes in addition to the “will to fight” tech that all civs have.
A player can only have one of these per match (if not possible to implement this, then it could have a max count of 1).
It won’t be any more expensive than a normal fortress and doesn’t replace it.
Serves as an territory anchor like a CC.
Wonder: Hieron’s Altar
Unit Roster
For my first draft of this civ I have 11 units planned, 3 citizen soldiers, 5 mercenaries and 3 champions. For this next section I will specify which buildings train what units using the following template, building, citizen soldiers, mercenaries, champions.
Citizen soldiers
-Syracusan Hoplite
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Generic name: Syracusan hoplite
Specific name: Hoplites sikeliotes
Pierce armament: Dori spear
Attire: Unit variants should bear the Montefortino, Italo-Attic and Corinthian helmets . Rank 1 gets a tunic and one of the greaves, rank 2 gets the linothorax and both greaves and finally rank 3 gets the feathers in the helmets mentioned and a tri-disc cuirass over the linothorax. Aspis shield should have marine elements in it (dolphins, tridents, nymphs like the oceanids, pegaeae or the nereids or hell even Arethousa herself).
Stats:
Health: 100
Hack Damage: 2.5 Pierce Damage: 3 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1 Range:4
Hack Armor: 5 Pierce Armor: 5 Crush Armor: 10
Walk Speed: 9 Run Speed: 15
Cost: 50 food 50 wood
Loot: 5 food 5 wood 100 exp
- Sicanian skirmisher
Generic name: Sicanian skirmisher
Specific name: Peltastes sikeliotes
Ranged armament: Javelins
Attire: Pelta shield obvs. Rank 1 has a straw hat, simple tunic and no greaves, rank 2 gets a chalcidean helmet and a decorative unic, rank 3 gets padded armor and a chlamys.
Note: to make this a more “aggressive” civ and to drive the player to use mercs and champs these should have slightly worse stats than a standard skirmisher, -10% health. (Also, I don’t like how armies right now are like 4/6 ranged and 2/6 melee so that is also a factor in this choice of mine).
Stats:
Health: 40
Hack Damage:0 Pierce Damage: 16 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1.25 Range: 30
Hack Armor: 1 Pierce Armor: 1 Crush Armor: 10
Walk Speed: 10.8 Run Speed: 18
Cost: 50 food 50 wood
Loot: 5 food 5 wood 80 exp
-Greek Lancer
Generic name: Greek cavalry
Specific name: Hippeus
Melee armament: Xyston
Attire: Rank 1 has a straw hat, linothorax and no greaves, rank 2 gets a boeotian or a boeotian-variant helmet and a chlamys, rank 3 gets a plume in their helmet.
Stats:
Health: 160
Hack Damage: 4 Pierce Damage: 3 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1 Range: 6
Hack Armor: 4 Pierce Armor: 4 Crush Armor: 15
Walk Speed: 18 Run Speed: 25.5
Cost: 100 food 50 wood
Loot: 10 food 5 wood 130 exp
Mercenaries
- Italian Swordsman
Generic name: Italian Swordsman
Specific name: "something" xiphophoros
Melee armament: Xiphos
Note: we can use the swordsman merc model of Carthage’s Italian embassy. I named them italian swordsman because making a unit for mamertines, campanian, sileraioi and samnites mercenaries is redundant.
Stats:
Health: 100
Hack Damage: 5.5 Pierce Damage: 0 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 0.75 Range: 3
Hack Armor: 5 Pierce Armor: 5 Crush Armor: 15
Walk Speed: 9 Run Speed: 14
Cost: 20 food 35 metal
Loot: 2 food 6 metal 100 exp
-Cretan archer
Generic name: Cretan archer
Specific name: Toxotes Kretaikos
Note: There is already a model for these in game so no point in describing this one further
Stats:
Health: 60
Hack Damage: 0 Pierce Damage: 6.7 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1 Range: 60
Hack Armor: 1 Pierce Armor: 2 Crush Armor: 10
Walk Speed: 10.8 Run Speed: 18
Cost: 20 food 60 metal
Loot: 2 food 6 metal 100 exp
-Tarantine Cavalry
Generic name: Tarantine Skirmisher Cavalry
Specific name: Hippeus Tarantinos
Ranged armament: Javelins and pelte shield
Attire: NR
Stats:
Health: 100
Hack Damage: 0 Pierce Damage: 18 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 1.25 Range: 30
Hack Armor: 3 Pierce Armor: 1 Crush Armor: 15
Walk Speed: 15 Run Speed: 21
Cost: 50 food 50 metal
Loot: 6 food 8 metal 120 exp
-War Elephant
Generic name: African War Elephant
Specific name: NR
Note: The only mercenary elephant in the game and as such it should have a very steep cost.
Stats:
Health: 500
Hack Damage: 30 Pierce Damage: 0 Crush Damage: 70 Interval: 1.5
Hack Armor: 10 Pierce Armor: 10 Crush Armor: 20
Walk Speed: 9 Run Speed: 15
Cost: 300 food 160 metal
Loot: 30 food 16 metal 250 exp
-Iberian Swordsman
Generic name: Iberian light swordsman
Specific name:
Hacker armament: Falcata and buckler
Function: These are to be a pseudo glass cannon, less armour but more hack damage and more speed when compared to the standard merc swordsman. We can recycle the Iberian CS model. (Bootleg skiritai)
Stats:
Health: 80
Hack Damage: 6.5 Pierce Damage: 0 Crush Damage:0 Interval: 0.75 Range: 3
Hack Armor: 4 Pierce Armor: 2 Crush Armor: 10
Walk Speed: 11 Run Speed: 16
Cost: 20 food 30 metal
Loot: 2 food 6 metal 70 exp
Champions
The champion infantry of this faction can only be trained intialy at the regular fortresses and at the special buildings mentioned above but will be available at the barracks after the player researches the "unlock champions" tech.
-Syracusia (Ship)
Note: historically it was known to have been a gift to the Ptolemies and was more of a show of whealth but you can´t make a champion function as a ferry only.
Generic name: Syracusia
Specific name: Syracusia
Armament: ram and arrow towers
Function:
A really big ship, should be extremely expensive and slow but can be garrisoned like a tower to increase its firepower. It must also be capable of holding 50 soldiers.
-Crossbowman
Generic name: Crossbowman
Specific name: Gastraphetephoros
Armament: gastraphetes
Attire: Similar to their Macedonian counterpart
Stats:
Health: 120
Hack Damage: 0 Pierce Damage: 40 Crush Damage: Interval: 2.5 Range: 60
Hack Armor: 5 Pierce Armor: 5 Crush Armor: 20
Walk Speed: 10.8 Run Speed: 18
Cost: 80 food 60 wood 80 metal
Loot: 8 food 6 wood 8 metal
-Tyrants’ guard/bodyguard
Generic name: Tyrants’ Peltasts
Specific name: Somatophylax tou tyrannou
Melee armament: javelins, kopis and aspis
Attire: As per the nature of their role and their value as a hybrid, high priority unit, they should be easily recognized in game, so I’m going to kill two birds with one stone by making them the flashiest units in game. Certainly, a tyrant would want show his wealth not only by investing in his personal image but also his entourage’s, the more decorated the panoply, the better.
Firstly, their body armour, bronze muscle cuirass or an iron linothorax, like the one Phillip II uses in game. Both greaves made of bronze/iron and of course a cape. The helmet could be either a thracian or a late attic plumed .
Function:
The star of the roster for sure, this is meant to be a hybrid unit, a heavy peltast, cross between a skirmisher and a swordsman that is capable of both ranged and melee damage.
The idea came to me after browsing Yekaterina’s post about making such a unit, basically my idea was that the damage type be exclusive to each “mode” of the unit, these “modes” could be toggled manually via formations but if this isn’t possible then have them only get in melee when right in front of another unit (< 4 meters).
As they are also swordsmen, they can deal with CS infantry with varying degrees of cost-effectiveness. Naturally their counter would be cavalry.
Finally, as to balance them I was thinking they could have an increased prepare time or downright less attack speed on their ranged stance.
These should also have just a bit less health (than normal champ swordsmen) so that lose to other sword champs if none of their shots landed or if they hadn’t had a chance to fire but should be able to win if at least two or three shots connect before going into melee.
Range Stance's Stats:
Health:
Hack Damage: Pierce Damage: Crush Damage:
Hack Armor: Pierce Armor: Crush Armor:
Walk Speed: Run Speed:
Cost:
Loot:
Melee Stance's Stats:
Health:
Hack Damage: Pierce Damage: Crush Damage:
Hack Armor: Pierce Armor: Crush Armor:
Walk Speed: Run Speed:
Cost:
Loot:
Heroes
For this section I choose not to include any post Pyrrhus heroes and instead opted for the first dynast of each dynasty pre epirote influence .
- Gelo/Gelon I
Elitism: Champions and cavalry train 15% faster while citizen soldier infantry train 10% slower.
Cavalry Commander: Citizen and mercenary cavalry within a (Y) radius of Gelon receive a +2 crush, hack and pierce armour in addition to a 30% line of sight increase.
To fit his bonuses and history, he would have to belong to the spear cavalry category but it is imperative that he posseces a more classical look than the following heroes, maybe a boeotian helmet with a laurel crown and a simple plume would fit him nicely:
#Here is the crowned boeotian helmet in-game, to which I have added 3 plumes( i think they are props), just to give an even better idea of what I am talking about:
Stats:
Health: 1100
Hack Damage: 16 Pierce Damage: 14 Crush Damage: 0 Range: 6 Interval: 1.25
Hack Armor: 11 Pierce Armor: 10 Crush Armor: 25
Walk Speed: 19 Run Speed: 25
Cost: 300 food 200 wood 250 metal
Loot: 10 food 50 metal 400 exp
- Dionysius I
One the most infamous tyrants of Sicily, his contributions go from upgrading the walls of the city to furthering the development of siege machines.
Dionysian Walls: Defensive structures get a 10% health boost (palisades, stone walls, fortresses, civic centres and all towers).
Court Engineers: Siege units have their attack speed and movement increased by 20% in a (k) radius.
As for his physical model I couldn't find much but following picture gave me the idea of giving him a linothorax, maybe scaled, underneath a chlamys, kinda like Themistocles in-game:
#i also think he should be a sword cav hero
Stats:
Health: 1200
Hack Damage: 20 Pierce Damage: 0 Crush Damage:0 Range: 5 Interval: 0.75
Hack Armor: 11 Pierce Armor: 9 Crush Armor: 25
Walk Speed:18 Run Speed: 25.2
Cost: 300 food 100 wood 200 metal
Loot: 10 food 10 wood 50 metal 400 exp
- Agathocles
Another famous ruler that, much like Hannibal during the 2nd Punic war, brought the fight his enemy’s doorstep, somewhat shielding(not really tho) his own territory. He also burned his ships after disembarking in Africa, that way his mercs and soldiers were in a do or die situation.
Natural Leader: +50% capture points in a (j) radius for both allies and your own troops.
Relentless Advance: Mercenaries and citizen soldiers gain experience 10% faster (this, I think can be done by multiplying the experience points given by enemies in (x) radius or by multiplying the experience received by friendlies in (x) range of him).
For his appearance and unit class I was thinking that he could be an infantry spearman, something like this:
# Maybe a cloak or something to make him more distinguishable.
Stats:
Health: 1000
Hack Damage: 10 Pierce Damage: 10 Crush Damage:0
Hack Armor: 10 Pierce Armor: 11 Crush Armor: 20
Walk Speed: 10 Run Speed: 18
Cost: 200 food 300 wood 150 metal
Loot: 5 food 15 metal 400 exp
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When i say auto pilot units I mean units that require little to no micro to be effective.
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By genocide aspect of the games i suspect u mean using those auto pilot units that shall not be named...
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I completely agree with OP , the healer unit coupled with a few more healers basically make loincloth wearing indians into supermen. THe mobile elephant makes it so they can venture into enemy territory and gather resources without arousing suspicion. The single fact that they have both spearmen and swordsmen in addition to their infamous roster makes them,much like the persians a bloated civ that has an easy answer to everything. Meanwhile poor macedon has to reach phase 3 to get answers to rams that cost METAL!!
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Well i would to see each spearman have different stats. Hoplites have big aspis which is way better that a whicker shield used by persian spearmen so hoplite pierce armor > sparabara pierce armor for example. So diferent civs would have to take different aproaches to the same scenario. Another example, tarantine skirm cav could also have better pierce armor than numidian or asian skirm cav that use the pelta.
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Musks could kill all but the heaviest of cavalry in melee and still in the few engagements cavalry won , it was not cost effective at all.
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Well you would think a guy with a musket would have trouble against a horseman right? Well, in their wisdom the devs decided that the british civ needed to have a jack of all trades unit, normally a simple spearman/ pikeman can do this( is good against cav and can tank a bit) but they decided to make a ranged unit that is tankier than a pikeman and can also take down cav , much like the pikeman. After this, they had to give almost every civ in the game a musketeer type unit and also make another ranged unit that countered musks other tha artilery before release. In conclusion , everyone has a musketeer which can do a lot of things( boring autopilot unit, melee units except for the generic melee cav are useless( very very situational) and units that an extensive melee roster are gimped, therefore the game gets stale very fast as only the cards system and some unique units differentiate 2/3 civs. That is why i don't like how everyone in 0 AD has a spearman.
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Shooting arrows until something gets close and then switching to melee reminds a whole lot of AOE3 musketeers, and that is not a good practice. Just saying someone might get the idea to implement units like this in a future alpha.
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Ah i was spot on the composite linothorax. So its safe to say that the most popular styles were the pilos "like" helmet with the fin corinthian, pseudo-calchidian, montefortino and probably the illyrian too.
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Ah there they are!!
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You are oppening a colossal can of worms with this idea.
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From what i've seen from bronze statues , the calchidian helm, xiphos and a composite linothorax panoply seem to have been popular among them. Sometimes one sees a pilis like helmet too. Strangely no corithian helmets .
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26 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:
We have neglected the Italic peoples.
Samnite wars are within the period of 0 A.D.
Magna Greece Also neglected.
Other than tarentum(?) and neapolis and maybe syracuse what does southern italy have? I mean syracuse could be so cool, like only having 1 CC and having other tools to expand, maybe it could have P2 hero/heroes and mercs obvs
Syracuse Mod Idea/Brainstorming
in Game Modification
Posted
Having the player juggle between citizens, women and slaves for resource gathering is not more convenient.