Emacz

We already have two types of sligners. Regular stone and lead bullets. And Baleric and Rhodian have their own boost based off those parent tempaltes.

This is what we did with heltos: Helots have 25% less range, wider spread, and 10% less damage than normal citizen infantry, but the same gather rates as civilians. They have 75 HP and cost only 40 food and 10 wood or stone. They do not receive forge techs. But yes it doesn't make as much since for other Greek citizens fighters since they were still free citizens. Maybe their ranged units should just take a little longer to promote than other ranged units. And then when you combine that with hoplite tradition, you realize their infantry, hoplites in particular are a little move "valued" in their eyes.

Ah ok that makes sense. Yes when using mixin it does get a little overwhelming with all the different info in there.

Appreciate you response @josue valencia. Juist so we are clear, I know very little about what I'm doing, AI is doing most of it for me I basically send replays/interesting log and send to chatGPT and then tell it what i see think should be improved and it writes the changes. Yes the AI is tied to Classical Warfare, so you would have to download the AI only and probably recode some of it. However, I think we are trying to be similar in ways that you might not be aware of. In general we changed CWA so that the Civs were a little more different and represented their heroes/styles better. For example greek hoplites are a little stronger than most spearman and the first melee attack tech is aviabile in p1 for greek city states. So in the p1 rush for Greeks the AI is supposed to try and get that attack to give it an advantage. There are still llots of little things that need cleaning up. ANd I continue to work on it daily. Would be great to bounce ideas off someone else, but yes I realize it is mainly tied into the changes we made to CWA and some, if not a lot of people may not want that. Although some of those changes will probably be coming to newer versions of the base game, like "charge" type behavior and other things I think.

Ive been using AI to help improve Petra. I have an "expert" version that comes with Classical Warfare AEA. But I'm you could easily just download the AI files. ALthough it does specifically work with some of our overall changes. It can randomly roll 4 strategies, p1 rush, p2 military tech push, p3 max pop max techs and I forget the 4th one It beats very hard 95% of the time (and only has a 20% gather resource bonus instead of the 56% that VH has) but I'm still trying to get it to be more efficient. A lot of times it will basically break very hard by 10 min, but then it takes another 10-15m to actually finish the gam

Yes, which is why I have told you to at least look at the mod wether it be download and the structure tree, or just on github its self.

You could check out what we did with <SpecificName>Hastātus</SpecificName> for rome. My understanding is early on they were similar to hoplites in kits and then they evolved into swordsmen. So in p1 Hastatus = spearman and then it is replaced in p2 by Hastatus = swordsman infantry_swordsman_b.xml infantry_spearman_b.xml

Well the game already does it for "hoplites" they have a mixin that allows all hoplites to have phalanx formation. <Identity> <Classes datatype="tokens">Hoplite</Classes> <Tooltip>Hoplites can use phalanx formation</Tooltip> <History>Hoplites were the very symbol of Hellenic prestige and citizenship, armed with a spear and a large round bronze-coated shield known as an aspis. Armor was heavy, with bronze helmets and a cuirass of either bronze or linen, in addition to greaves. Hoplites fought in a tight formation called a phalanx, guarding each other with their shields while they attacked the enemy with their 2.5 meter spear or short iron sword.</History> </Identity> just add a visable class <Identity> <VisibleClasses datatype="tokens">Athenian</VisibleClasses> <Tooltip>A true citizen of Athens.</Tooltip> </Identity>

Couldn't you do that through a "mixin"?

Correct, except helots in vanilla have same stats as pretty much all other javelineer units which doesn't make as much sense to me and dont bother with @Arup He talks a lot, but wont ever try anything

Based off of one of the articles you sent, it sounds like most Perioeci were still equip as hoplites. That's why we gave helots both jav and slinger options. We have cretan archers but not until p3 i dont think. And theracian peltasts available p2.

Not sure what I was thinking yet. I mean for helots: "Helots have 25% less range, wider spread, and 10% less damage than normal citizen infantry, but the same gather rates as civilians. They have 75 HP and cost only 40 food and 10 wood or stone. They do not receive forge techs." Sparta has both "javelineers" and "slinger" helots, the Javs are not peltasts though (no shields.) Athenians have Peltats, Slingers, Thracian Peltasts and Rhodian Slingers. Way back when we removed slingers and added archers, so have some of the framework for that. I may still keep regular slingers as an option too to unlock, but the archers would come standard. These are the things I like to discuss on discord So even though its pretyt dead, maybe you could join and we can go back and forth with these things and @ThePoshBarbarian Is welcome too!

I have thought about some of these things for Classical Warfare AEA. Was easy with Sparta, we classified them as helots and changed their stats a bit. The question for Athens (and I would think Thebes too?) If we were to lower their cost, how do we "penalize/balance"? Say a Javelineer for greeks was only 30 wood (20% cheaper overal) The Javelin would probably still do the same "dmg" right? It wasn't like they used weaker, less effective javelins? And we have "Athenian Peltasts" and "Boiotian Pelatasts" along with the Theracian merc.

Not sure, Ill look into it, but probably not easily doable.

What was the purpose of the siege ladder, to help "capture" the fortified area? For now could you extrapolate that into a tech that gives them for capture attack?

You are welcome to check it out. Our speeds vary more than vanilla, some are faster some are slower. Cavalry is broken into 4 classes, pursuit/scout cav which are only spearman and are the fastest, then light cav which most of time time is your archer/jav cav, sometiems a light melee cav, medium cav and heavy cav. The more "armor/resistance" the slower they get.

already been done

How is that not useful? its 0 pop, and cost 60 total resourecs Its not a champion though.... from what I have read about them, they were former slaves who were city "police" type units. So they are 0 pop (but lmitied) they have increased vision. They are more for patrolling and helping you notice any threats.

City phase? City phase is pretty normal and standard.

That is the generic empire phase. The civ specific one replaces the generic

Yes, Mace is a little different and tough. But you have strong p1 allied cav that only cost food.... you can unlock slingers p1. Yes you should also notice although Mace p1 units are "weaker" they are cheaper and train faster... mace is more about eco early on and getting to p2. We didnt want civs to play practically identical to one another. I can show you how to play to each civs strength, we can team up against the AI. And Im sure there are people better than me who could really play into the strengths even more.

I don't want you to change Rome! Again, I would have to watch you play, play with you to give you some ideas. But Rome is definitely one of the stronger civs that doesn't need too much help. What makes spearman horrible units? So then should we change the tribal units that start with spearman/javelineers? I think we should play some games together so you can see how each civ can be quite strong.

No, p1 rome starts with spearman from CC and Barracks... are you playing the same mod? ) I have thought about macedonians ones a little.... and since we reduced resistances on pikeman im also considering removing that metal cost. But again for now Im focused on bugs, and improving AI.

The original roman spearman p1 doesnt cost any metal at all. If you go p2 too soon.... thats on you for not having your resources figured out! P1 rome is fine, spearman 50/50 and Javelineer 50/50 just like base game costs.

Ok, but what unit? They didnt really rely on spearman. And Spearman are our only melee unit that doesnt cost metal And maybe even they should cost metal. I guess it really comes down to what does the cost represent. Food to "grow" the soldier, other resources for the equipment used? Then really most melee have some form of metal armor... I'm willing to redo our cost system... but I would like more imput and clearity on what it should represent.