chrstgtr

Ah, i see. But to be honest, eco/building auras aren't very useful when you get hero in late game Edit: to be useful they would have to have a big enough of an impact that a player will go out of their way to phase super quickly. I imagine that would be way, way more than the 10% you have listed.

These types of heroes never get used. Would want it to be way, way better than this. Other would be fine to me. Also like @real_tabasco_sauce’s suggestion

Still can

There is a animal pop limit so it’s usefulness is limited and similar to ice houses. I’m not worried about it

Or any other civ for skirm champ. I don't care which--it was a fun unit and the game is worse without it.

You can select where you want turn rates. I don’t find it terrible now. But I’m generally not a fan. On ships, it makes sense, though. With rams there are definitely times where you just see rams constantly turning instead of moving

Turn rates refer to the time it takes for a unit to turn (like you’re describing in the second paragraph). So when a unit is facing north to move south there is like .1 seconds where turns around in place before it begins to walk south. When there are a lot of obstacles (I.e., units) blocking the way of a ram then the ram has to turn frequently in order to move. All those turns add up to a lot of time. Also, moving units means pathfinding is constantly recalculating and rerouting, which, again, leads to more turns and time where the rams aren’t actually moving. I’m not a fan of turn rates, but some developers apparently really, really care about them. The current state is much, much more playable then it used to be (turn rates were introduced in a24 and made the game much less fun, imo, whereas now turn rates are mostly and annoyance, imo)

I think it’s been a problem for awhile. Part of the problem is also turn rates. We tried to change turn rates for community mod, but I think it was voted down

They used to have but we’re removed from a23–>a24. I think another civ (Persia?) also used to have a champ skirm too that was removed at the same time. But yes, I would like a champ skirm inf unit in the game again

Fair. Thanks. I guess it would still apply to civs like Xiongnu, though, so maybe that’s the more apt comparison. I guess a civ like Syracuse truly is easier. But more Greek civs just sounds so boring Edit: sorry to derail the thread--I was just curious about a reappearing theme re the timeframe that I didn't understand.

Ah, I thought you meant for 0AD. But yeah, 0AD always could use more helping hands. Isn't this all true for any new civs? I get the concerns--they are very valid--but how are these relevant to timeframe restriction? A new Syracuse civ seems to pose the same issues above that a new American civ would. Or am I missing something?

Yeah, I get why the initial decision was made, but I agree with you that a bright line rule may not make sense, especially now/in the future. It also seems like that initial incubation phase may have already passed (or, at a minimum, will eventually pass). Can't that work be transferred over to EA? I thought they all run on the same engines.

Interesting--thanks for clarifying. Do you know why it is intended as a separate game? It seems like a logical extension to just expand the date range so you can have a larger number of civs play against each other. Not saying we're there yet, I just don't understand what seems to be a permanent arbitrary cutoff. At some point it seems like EA will stall because new interesting civs become less interesting (see discussion in other thread on why additional greek fractions are unappealing). Yet, EA will never truly be finished. And, starting a new game from scratch will be tough to get initial buy-in (why play with 4 civs when you can play with 16+ in EA, why split the player base, etc.).

Where does this come from? I’ve seen people say this a few times, but I don’t know what supports this proposition. As others have pointed out, that timeline isn’t strictly followed. The about page on the website also identifies the timeframe as 500BC to 500AD: https://play0ad.com/game-info/project-overview/. (Personally, date ranges seem arbitrary until you start introducing gunpowder, but I’m more curious where this date framework comes from)

You're missing my point. It's a game, not a simulation. And, your statement that you want American civs cannot exist if you believe the above.

Yeah, I want both. All I'm saying is that I'm not keen on the logic that would always exclude American civs

That's my point--excluding American civs for "historical" reasons is silly These two statements can't coexist. Until you start adding American civ then no new American civ will ever have any real historical connections during 0ad's timeframe. Besides, it's a game. It's not a historical simulation. Sparta and Athens both existed at the same time and did interact with each other. We don't need the game to perfectly replay every one of their interactions. If the outcome was already determined then it wouldn't be a game.

This is specious. Until American civs are added this will always be the case. If other non-American civs continue to get added then American civs will only become less related Han were far away and unrelated before yet they were added. Earlier in the thread you said Xiongnu now have to be added because Han are now in the game. You’re falling into a self-fulfilling prophecy. The game should go where there is demand

This couldn’t happen in a26 because of the Han farming issue, which made the mod the de facto version of a26 for anyone who cared about balance at all.

I’d rather do what’s discussed above. Plus it’s already really tough to recover if you lose an initial naval battle—promotions would just make it more difficult

@FreagarachI largely agree that your suggested changes would make walls more effective. But there was a pretty massive backlash the last time the game went in a turtle-ly direction (a24) and one of the reasons for that backlash was people didn't like turtling. Since this potentially involves a meta change that could significantly change the length of games, I would make in community mod. Just my opinion. In general, I also think there's a lack of imagination with the way people build walls. Walls don't need to be an outermost defense that only separate armies. They can be built other places, like immediately around your forts, CCs, and, towers, which would make those defensive buildings much stronger.

Yeah, my point is more the later. Walls should actually do something besides delay an attacker by a few seconds to power through or path around. Until then, walls are just annoying

Kind of. The better the player the more optimized the eco, the less time to build. If you get countered then there should also be a teammate that can help cover your base while you continue to push, etc. But I hear your point. Walls largely don’t work now because they’re nothing but an obstacle—a larger army can kill a smaller army that’s hiding behind a wall. The wall just gives the defender a chance to coalescence units. This is why I’ve said elsewhere that I think walls should largely function like towers

If no top player's do build walls, walls should be made stronger (or siege and ellephants weaker). Walls are a part of the game. This isn’t quite true. It happens in some circumstances. Also, top players usually have the responsibility of dealing damage and do not need to build walls because they are a top player against inferior competition

The difference has been around for a little bit now (a25?). Having extra res always gives benefits. Extra metal mining slots also opens up potential for mercs to be abused, which not all civs can do (really a problem with mercs). Same with military techs and champs. I’m fine with it metal being capped. Extra stone slots means slinger civs aren’t disadvantaged vs civs that only need wood, which isn’t capped and generally available on all maps. I’m fine with some stone having extra slots. It adds some nuance that I’m fine with. But I think most people would adjust to whatever number of slots are permitted so long as stone gets at least like 20 on the initial stone.