chrstgtr

I would just revert to the way it was in a23. We know that worked and it was unique. Or are you asking a different question?

Town phase is p2. This will move one forge tech from p3 to p2. p1 will have 0 techs, p2 will have 2 new techs, and p3 will have 1 new tech. Making p2 stronger makes p1 weaker.

It is a 25% stone discount and stone is the only res. So it is a decrease from 25% res discount. Fair point re Themistocles. It's better than I thought at a glance (mostly because I misread it at first). I wouldn't mind if the proposal was implemented. I'm not excited about it (because like you say these aren't meant to be great heroes), but I think it'll be a small improvement. I would love if these were modified to make Athens' (or any other civ's) heroes as good as Ptol or Brits.

Pericles temple cost goes from a 25% discount to a 15% discount. Themistocles goes from a 50% speed bonus to a 15% speed bonus. I misread some other ones, so that's my fault. But like @Darkcity said, a lot of the problems with one of the heroes results from the prevailing non-naval gameplay. After a closer look, these may be fine. But I don't know.

The Athens heroes proposal is largely a nerf.

I would go slow. This alpha isn't fully understood yet. And introducing a bunch of new changes will make understanding this alpha and the new changes very difficult. With that said there are a few universal changes that impact all civs equally. My thoughts below: Speed up rams by improving the turn rate and acceleration of siege units Good Pericles and Themistocles update Not needed--no one makes these heroes Rebalance healers by making them cheaper Yes to healer cost. No, to healer upgrades--should do one at a time. Healers were often used in a23. I could see this making a civ like Athens with Iphicrates and healers OP. Move tier 2 blacksmith technologies to Town Phase Yes. P2 is currently a transition phase with little actual fighting. P3 incentive still exists for eco/final blacksmith reasons Nerf heroes Iphicrates and Ptolemy No for now. Need to see how this alpha plays out. It's been discussed elsewhere, but Iphicates should become a distance aura instead of a formation aura. With that said, I will likely agree with this for Iphicates. I don't like the Ptol change

You’re right. Maybe an in game “recent changes” viewer would be best. My last few points are just to say: it should be readily apparent what changes were made by the mod. I don’t know if that is easiest is in a forum stickied post or in an in-game option. The mod is a great idea, but right now it takes a bit of digging to figure out what the mod actually does, which undercuts any goals beyond serving as a hot-fix for Han farming upgrades (which itself is really important)

Ok, thanks--this is helpful. But I spent a few minutes looking and wasn't able to easily find it. I now see where it was at, but it not intuitively evident.

Just a suggestion that maybe that OP should list what changes were made to each version of the mod. Something like the below. This will allow players to see what actually changes and help determine whether a change is actually desirable. Changes Made 0.26.1 Fixed Han field upgrades by... 0.26.2 [Fill]

Or revert to old system with longer build times. Ptol plays the same as every other civ except it is easier. There is zero trade off, which makes it broken.

@wraitii I think the explanation above seems possible. Rams don’t seem overall quicker or slower to me. I have noticed, on occasion, that rams do very slow zigs and zags through obstacles, though It’s still the early days on the alpha, but. aside from Han, nothing stands out as major being a major change or huge imbalance. I’m sure we’ll notice stuff as time goes on, but I’m starting to feel more comfortable with overall balance, which means we should (hopefully) be able to implement more new features/bigger changes soon. It would also be nice if in the next alpha we cleaned up some of the other lingering problems that we know exist but haven’t been addressed yet (I.e. making heroes more balanced across civs, making wonders useful, etc). Overall, this feels like a boring (but needed) update for most old civs, a decent facelift for Persians (credit to @borg_ there) and, of course, a huge update with Han.

I’m not sure how I would feel. My main concern would be siege, which could always be carved out. I don’t think it would hugely change the game because I doubt people wait for reinforcement units to bunch up and be put into formation

Can it be downloaded within the game? Some mods got that in a23 and that really helped adoption another big problem is that people want to download mods, but don’t know where. Players with link the mod in MP chat/lobby, but there is no link feature that allows players to copy text. As a result, players see a 100 character link and give up. A /link command, like autociv has, would help get over this hurdle

Related, one of the biggest problems with moving with formations is that the units move at the speed of the slowest unit in the formation. Maybe it would make sense to change that to the speed of the fastest unit in formation.

Yeah, heroes are super imbalanced across civs. Some civs have 3 great heroes. Some civs none. with that said, formation hero is the best in game if used correctly.

you should always have a hero. They’re stronger than normal unit and don’t count against pop limits. Separately, I think heroes should all be radius based. Formations apply to a potentially unlimited number of units while at the same time being potentially under inclusive of units walking directly through a “formation.” They require players to engage in an annoying “tap formation” button mashing in order to derive the hero benefit. formations should be good on their own, and not good because of something else.

Little off topic, but with the known (and long-standing) problems with formations, it probably makes sense to just change the hero bonus to a range like all the other proximity based bonuses

Pretty huge oversight that we missed during testing: Han farm upgrades only work for p2.

Icons option exists.

See OP. It already exists.

To each their own. But see OP. The new mini-icons can be turned off. For me, it's mostly a problem with houses, storehouses, and farmhouses. I often place houses close to my wood line and it is easy to forget where each is. Farmhouses are often placed wherever berries are, which is easy to forget after the berries are exhausted. It is good to know where you don't have to build a new farmhouse. Farmhouses are easily recognized from one angle, but not from all angles. Regardless, I feel like good art design requires differentiation (while staying within a theme ofc). Even if I do get used to it, I think it would be good to make it easier for newbies.

Creating a post so we can get a26 feedback. Running list of issue: The minimap is really busy now. I used to be able to easily discern what was occurring on the other side of the map, but now I have no clue because the map feels so busy. For anyone else who felt this way--it can be undone in Options-->Game Session-->Minimap Icons-->unchecked Han buildings all look really similar. Maybe this improves as we get more used to playing Han, but right now everything looks the same Han farm upgrades do not work for p1 and p3

Awesome. I just thought the initial language could turn off some new players.

Just a suggestion I thought of as I went to download the newest alpha. The developmental language suggests that the game is still very raw, which will be a turn-off for a lot of potential new players. Maybe change the language to something like the below. Attention! This is a developmental version of the game so some bugs, such as lag when many units are moving and processing problems with very large maps, may exist. The game is regularly updated to address these and other concerns.

Friendly reminder that AutoCiv mod has a mute function.