Nescio
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Posts posted by Nescio
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Could someone explain to me the differences between 0 A.D.'s random maps, scenarios, and skirmish? I believe I've quite familiarized myself with the game but I still don't understand those map categories ...
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On 27/10/2017 at 2:30 PM, Imarok said:
Could you complete the wiki entry?
(It's free to edit...)
And I've largely rewritten the page, expanding and updating the parts on changing, removing, and adding resources from the game; I've left the “gathering” section unaltered (I've no experience with this (silver is intended to be not directly gatherable)); information on the AI and maps is also absent. Anyone interested in improving the page further, do not hesitate to edit it (I'm done with it now).
On 25/10/2017 at 6:19 PM, leper said:#643.
So I've attempted to include this over-five-years-old proposed patch into my mod, and although I didn't get any error messages after including the js parts into the simulation/components/ files (which was surprising, because I didn't really know what I was doing), I've not succeeded in actually displaying current gatherer numbers; the gui has simply changed too much, and amongst other things, resources are no longer hardcoded individually. For now I've shelved this idea, my programming skills are simply too limited.
I would really appreciate it if someone with more coding experience could eventually update #643 and include it into 0 A.D. I don't think I'm the only one who considers displaying gatherer numbers useful.
45. Detaching the minimap from the central panel was surprisingly easy; moving the resources from the top panel to a new, separate panel turned out to be unexpectedly difficult. Apparently I'm overlooking something somewhere. Perhaps someone could help me by pointing out what I have to do to create a new (vertically arranged panel, e.g.:
(x1,y1) --- (x2, y1) | resource[1] | | resource[2] | | resource[3] | | resource[4] | | resource[5] | (x1,y2) --- (x2, y2)50. 0 A.D.'s AI is flexible in some respects: it trains new units, it researches new technologies, and it acquires and spends silver (0abc's new resource). Unfortunately it seems the AI is not capable of handling new or renamed structures. Apparently buildings are hardcoded somewhere in the AI files.
Now, how to make the AI actually use new structures?
On 25/10/2017 at 4:36 PM, Grugnas said:can i ask here questions relative to AI behavior modify?
(Apparently I'm not the only one who would appreciate an introduction to how the AI works.)
Structure changes I've implemented:
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made the fortress a purely defensive structure (the AI builds them)
- moved heroes to the centre (the AI trains them)
- moved siege weapons to siege workshops (surprisingly the AI builds these)
- moved war elephants to elephant stables (I haven't seen any of these)
- moved champions to military halls, see below (the AI doesn't use them)
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separated the military docks into
- economic docks (resource dropsite, trade route market, constructs fishing boats, merchant ships, war barges, and fire ships)
- military shipyards (constructs war galleys)
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separated the barracks into:
- infantry barracks
- cavalry stables
- camel stables
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created a military hall (structures which trains most of a faction's champions)
- gymnasium (athen), tavern (gaul), hall (pers), syssiton (spart) are merged and renamed into hall
- also created halls for cart, mace, ptol, sele
- renamed Persian adapana into palace and also added a palace for the Mauryans
With a few exceptions, the AI does not seem to be capable of handling these. Ideally structures shouldn't be hardcoded in the AI files, allowing the AI to be flexible (as it is with units and technologies). Realistically, a guide to explain how to make the AI actually use new structures would already be great, not only for me, but also for many other mods (e.g. HC, VP, DE).
Furthermore, this is also important for the default game; the Art team is creating many new structures; besides, I've never seen the AI actually building dog kennels, walls, and wonders. If the AI would be capable of handling all available structures, 0 A.D. would undoubtedly be a much more enjoyable game.
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made the fortress a purely defensive structure (the AI builds them)
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In reversed order:
5 hours ago, Servo said:@Nescio please fix the corral build time, it’s 5000.
Fixed about eight hours before you posted. (Keep in mind I update the github repository more frequently than I post in this forum thread.)
9 hours ago, sphyrth said:THIS! This is what I wanted on the core game. I can't remember when I suggested it.
Actually I've created a diff to include these and a few more selection marker shapes into 0 A.D. nearly two months ago, but it still has to be reviewed and subsequently implemented on phabricator: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D889
9 hours ago, sphyrth said:Permission to feature 0abc on my channel.
Feel free to go ahead, but keep in mind 0abc is in constant development (it's a test mod for an alpha game, after all).
10 hours ago, Servo said:1. Iberian, Romans and probably any Civs that don’t require stables to train cavalry(only barracks) trains them. I guess it’s the same as siege are originally programmed to be trained in specific structures. For example Carthage don’t train cavalry probably because they don’t recognize the stables you altered for your mod. Though it trained Balaric slingers and Greek hoplite.
The AI behaviour is something I don't understand (yet), but it certainly is on my to-do list. The default AI has no difficulty with new units (as can be seen by the numbers of mercenaries they train). Furthermore, in a short test game yesterday I've observed several AI players constructing siege workshops in the city phase (although it's available in town phase), and one Gaul player leveled my farmstead with a couple of battering rams, therefore I guess the AI is capable of building siege engines (although it might deem them cost-ineffective); the AI also trains the most expensive heroes (all heroes are trainable at centres, instead of fortresses); however, I've not seen any chariots or war elephants.
Quite annoying is the fact that many structures appear to be hardcoded in the AI files (units are typically not); it seems the AI is currently incapable of constructing camel stables, cavalry stables, elephant stables, halls, and palaces, which means that only the four factions which currently lack those (brit, gaul, iber, rome; these do not have mercenaries) are capable of training cavalry, all champions, etc. Again, I don't know yet how to fix it, but it is on my to-do list.
10 hours ago, Servo said:2. They are trading silver but they only use barter for resources.
In a test game I observed the AI acquires silver (via traders) and spends it on purchasing other resources, which I think is acceptable behaviour.
10 hours ago, Servo said:3. There are still bugs about building structures that shows complete HP but the building still continues endlessly.
As I've answered at least once earlier in this thread:
On 23/10/2017 at 11:30 AM, Nescio said:Recently I experienced a few myself, these are quite annoying. I don't understand why they happen, it's not a systematic error. If I build a row of five houses it typically works fine, but occassionally one is left in a state of 100%-but-nevertheless-unfinished-limbo. I *guess* it might have something to do with overlap with other structures or objects.
Try avoiding unnecessary overlap with other structures and obstruction objects.
10 hours ago, Servo said:This will be a bit annoying but if I play for fun against AI I can just use wololo cheat to redirect the mode or movement so they can change their next move and minimize bugs .
0abc ought to be playable without cheats.
10 hours ago, Servo said:Another bug if know is that AI is kinda cheating because the farm automatically getting built(HP) but the animation looks unbuilt farm.
Could you elaborate?
10 hours ago, Servo said:I think for Carthage the embassy can be converted to stables. The AI used to build Gallic and Iberian embassy and train units from there.
Actually I've disabled Carthage's embassies (although I actually liked them) and replaced it with an infantry barracks and a cavalry stables (as have most other factions).
10 hours ago, Servo said:Multiplayerwise I think the mod will be fine except the annoying build bug.
Personally I don't care about multiplayer. If I can't make the AI capable of building new and renamed structures, I'll probably end up reverting and postponing those changes.
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24 minutes ago, Servo said:
For example I use a Seleucid Civ but a captured Ptolomic pike man won’t build a lighthouse.
How is it possible to capture a pikeman?
25 minutes ago, Servo said:I may need some more readme readings but when it comes to mercenaries is there a chance to identify them easily from the Civs regular units?
Yes:
- mercenaries have the “mercenary” visible class (and champions the “champion” class);
- infantry citizens typically have a blue-ish icon, mercenaries a green-ish, and champions a red-ish;
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they have different selection markers, from left to right:
healer (plus), citizen (circle), mercenary (rhombus), champion (arrow), hero (star):
31 minutes ago, Servo said:I ask the question because I guess I noticed that some units can help build a structure but can’t initiate the building command.
That's correct:
- worker elephants can build but can not initiate any structures
- females can build and can initiate and non-defensive and non-military structures
- citizens can build and can initiate all available structures
- mercenaries can build and can initiate only defensive and military structures
- champions and heroes can not build anything
34 minutes ago, Servo said:One good feature of your mod is like the DE style which you can build some structures in neutral or maybe possibly on enemy territory
Yes, fields, economic structures, and walls can be constructed in neutral territory, as can centres, crannogs, docks, harbours, shipyards, and outposts. The Roman army camp is the only structure which can be constructed in enemy territory. I don't know what “DE style” is, I've actually never tried DE out (its download size is unacceptably large for me, as is the svn requirement).
40 minutes ago, Servo said:A21
Keep in mind 0abc is based upon A22; using it in combination with another version might cause errors.
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Just now, LordGood said:
My favorite description of a giraffe has to be "cow dinosaur"
Dinosaurs have feathers nowadays; here is your cow:
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On 25/10/2017 at 6:19 PM, leper said:
#643.
Many thanks, that's what I needed! I'm currently working on displaying resources (and gatherer numbers) in a separate panel, arranged vertically.
4 hours ago, fatherbushido said:Do you work on svn or a22?
The latest stable release, i.e. A22.
4 hours ago, fatherbushido said:Ah forget that, you have to edit the special/player_gaia.xml files
And another file I overlooked, many thanks for pointing it out! That annoying warning has now disappeared (finally!).
Still on my silver-to-do list:
- fix trader gain at 100% silver
- disable directly bartering resources other than silver; only silver should be used for buying and selling other resources
- remove the market requirement for bartering resources
- redesign the resource and barter and trade GUI panels
Just in case anyone else intends to start adding resources, you need:
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to create:
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art/textures/ui/session/icons/resources/{newresource}.png -
art/textures/ui/session/icons/resources/{newresource}_small.png -
simulation/data/resources/{newresource}.json
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to edit:
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gui/common/setup_resources.xml -
gui/session/selection_panels.js -
gui/session/selection_panels_left/barter_panel.xml -
gui/session/top_panel/resources.xml -
simulation/templates/special/player.xml -
simulation/templates/special/player_gaia.xml -
simulation/templates/template_structure.xml
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- https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/ModdingResources is helpful but apparently incomplete; it does not mention the player files
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0abc updated:
- included Alexandermb's bolt shooters and stone throwers with crews: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22975-polybolos-animations-for-infantry/
- silver is now required for several technologies (instead of any other resources): share vision (250), share dropsites (500), unlock spies (1000), counterespionage (2000)
- several other minor corrections
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So I've been playing 0 A.D. since A18 (I think), but I'm still finding out new things.
I typically play with maximally zoomed out and I always thought the figure on the roof of the Persian barracks vaguely resembled a giraffe (screenshots are actually too sharp):
However, now I accidently zoomed in, I discovered it's actually a Mesopotamian lion:
Apparently taken from the Babylonian walls (see Ishtar gate, now partially in Berlin):
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pergamon_Museum_Berlin_2007112.jpg
I'm looking forward to stumbling upon the next nugget
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1 hour ago, Sundiata said:
people [...] think it"s an AoE ripoff
This is a serious problem without an easy or straightforward solution, unfortunately.
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1 minute ago, stanislas69 said:
I would have updated it myself, but I don't know what we strive for anymore.
Yeah, I know that feeling ...
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12 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:
@Nescio I guess that's what https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/ArtDesignDocument was for. It defines how names should be how folders convention are etc.
Maybe that document should be updated then. Carthaginian templates are named cart_* not kart_*, I don't think I've seen anything belonging to pole (poleis), and abbreviations such as fa (corral) and med (healer) seems rather confusing.
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Sundiata, at first glance an interesting suggestion, on second thought a bad idea, because:
- correct me if I'm wrong, but increasing the footprint also makes the structure more vulnerable to attacks, right?
- “half the size of a farm” would certainly not be anyway close enough to provide enough grass to feed even a single horse; better omit meadows than making them an unnecessary and unrealistic addition compromising reality;
- the courtyard of the proposed visual actor already has a fence.
I actually like the current design(s).
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On 24/10/2017 at 7:32 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
there's an inconsistency with file naming. Should all be Stables or Stable? Think it should be Stables, with an 's'.
On 25/10/2017 at 8:33 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:Nono, I meant it should have an s at the end, but some don't. lol
4 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:k, then:
barracks
stable
elephant stable
archery range
right?
Stables should be with an s, not without; we also have barracks, not a barrack.
On 25/10/2017 at 8:33 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:It would be good to unify and logically rename things, though I am sure it would be a minor pain in the butt.
Actually I wouldn't mind going through all files to implement a logical naming scheme and upload it to phabricator, provided someone is willing to review and commit it. Having consistent names makes things significantly easier for future additions (and mods).
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9 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:
it's a phase 2 building
Is it? Doesn't there exist village phase cavalry in 0 A.D.? Besides, cavalry typically came from the countryside and horses were kept outside cities in Antiquity (they need meadows).
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18 hours ago, Servo said:
Uh uh the mod is bugged, the AI doesn’t work well.
And I figured out what's wrong: I moved structure templates from simulation/templates/structures/{civ}_* to simulation/templates/structures/{civ}/* to have a cleaner repository. However, I just checked (grep) the AI files, and it seems structures/{civ}_ is hardcoded in them, so it's hardly surprising the AI doesn't build anything. So now I'll either have to move back over a hundred templates, or tweak several lines in a few AI files ...
[EDIT]: 0abc updated, returned structures to their previous location, the AI is now capable of building again.
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49. Another idea I have and would like to implement is the GUI displaying (e.g. in the resource bar) current numbers of:
- active food gatherers
- active wood gatherers
- active metal gatherers
- active stone gatherers
- idle workers
What do I need to do for this?
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13 hours ago, LordWahu said:
What might be useful is if someone could add a laid out description of the wall code and how that works. It appears a lack of familiarity with the code is what is preventing implementation.
Can someone either post one here or send a link to one that has been already done?
All code and game files etc are available at trac. I have no idea how wall placement exactly works, but if you want to figure it out, it might not be a bad idea to start looking at this file:
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Yes, this is quite annoying, although I doubt it can easily be fixed. I vaguely recall this existed in AoM as well (which had a similar wall placement, so it's not really a “classic 0AD issue”), however, I haven't played AoM in years.
If you want to repair your walls, delete the adjacent wall pieces, and create a new wall section from previous wall turret to next wall turret.
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12 hours ago, Servo said:
With regards to GUI for ease of clicks on MP game it would be best to put the mini map in the middle below. It’s easier to drag down/left the mouse than pushing it up or right ways.
The combat unit unit interface in the bottom near right is IMO have better location while the build/research interface on the lower left. Since the game is war the combat interface units must be the priority and the easier to access it’s interface the better.
If you happen to play RoN imo it has one of the best and very efficient GUI. It has economic interface on the top left including number of resource gatherers as well as market and trading activity. The top middle can have the tech research and progress if the Civ logo can be moved.
Just my personal opinion.
Could you upload a RoN screenshot?
12 hours ago, sphyrth said:He has a 4:3 screen like me.
Unfortunately not, I wish I did (or even better: a 5:4 screen); the only option for my notebook was 3840×2160, therefore I'm stuck with an inefficient 16:9 widescreen. However, I tend to use half-width windows (press Windows+Left and Windows+Right), which allow me to use two programs next to each other. This is also why I resized the central panel from 1024px to 960px (because 960*2=1920 and 960*4=3840).
10 hours ago, Servo said:I think you must have different version number just in case the new update won’t work do we can revert back to the ones that was working. Every update tends to replace the previous ones therefore we can’t easily revert back.
Actually I do, I'm currently working on version .52; besides, git keeps all history and easily allows you to load earlier versions. On github, open the repository (https://github.com/0abc/0abc-unified.git), click “commits”, then scroll down to the version you want (e.g. Commits on Oct 11, 2017), click the blue alphanumerical code at the end of the row, then click “browse files”, and finally “clone or download”: “download zip”.
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If the AI proves to be incapable of handling those specialized buildings, I'll probably revert those. I haven't tested it properly yet, because I'm still editing many other aspects, such as the GUI:
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1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:
Which other art you need?
Need, nothing really
However I could use some unit icons, provided they follow the same style as most existing ones in art/textures/ui/session/portraits/units
It seems the following colour scheme is broadly used (excluding siege weapons and ships):
- citizens: blue
- mercenaries: green
- champions: red
- heroes: purple
Nice to have would be new icons for:
- Mauryan battering ram (matching the visual actor Alexandermb designed)
- Macedonian gastraphetes crossbowman: red
- Dahae horse archer: blue, green (no armour, just a horse, a man, a composite bow, and a quiver)
- Carthaginian/Numidian cavalry javelinist: blue, green
- Celtic cavalry swordsman: blue, green
- Iberian cavalry swordsman: blue, green
And perhaps someone could also create icons in the same style as the existing ones in art/textures/ui/session/portraits/structures for a few new structures:
- camel stables
- chariot stables
- cavalry stables with the horseshoe pointing upwards (∪ instead of ∩)
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Keep in mind there also exist elephant stables. If someone intends to start implementing a consistent naming scheme, maybe start with “art/actors/structures/mauryans/stables.xml”; elephant_stables.xml and cavalry_stables.xml would seem appropiate names.
The coexistence of “civic_centre” and “civil_centre” alongside each other is also interesting; personally I prefer just “centre”, because it's shorter to type
art/actors/structures/spartans/ seems to be unique: it has both a “civic_center.xml” [sic] and a “civic_centre.xml”
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2 hours ago, fatherbushido said:
Well, did you add the bartermultiplier for silver resource in the player template?
(special/player.xml)
Great, that's it, many thanks for pointing it out, silver now works!
2 hours ago, Nescio said:It's not the first time I repeatedly overlooked that important special/ folder...
Although buying and selling seems to work, I still get a warning I don't understand whenever I start or load a game:
WARNING: JavaScript warning: simulation/components/Barter.js line 45 reference to undefined property multiplier.buy[resource]Furthermore, I still want to disable bartering resources other than silver directly; only silver ought to be used for buying or selling other resources.
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3 minutes ago, fatherbushido said:
45. What did you exactly with the barter component in the last two commits?
Nothing. I tried out if including an unchanged https://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/components/Barter.js would help; it didn't, therefore I removed that file from my mod.
0abc mod
in Game Modification
Posted
Or could it be that you simply have not updated your files? As you can see the file has been corrected many hours ago:
https://github.com/0abc/0abc-unified/blob/master/simulation/templates/template_structure_economic_corral.xml