Nescio

That something might have seemed a good idea in the past doesn't mean it should be set in stone; ideas can evolve. I'm posting here to have a critical look at the Seleucid unit roster and discuss whether it still makes sense in the current situation. As did Athens and Sparta. That doesn't mean they should have them, though.

Yes, I see currently: Britons, Iberians, Macedonians, Romans: 2 Carthaginians, Gauls, Ptolemies, Seleucids: 3 Spartans: 4 Athenians, Mauryas: 4+1 Kushites, Persians: 5 Yes, I agree; not really relevant for the Seleucids, though. Something else, the Seleucids currently have a quinquereme (which uses the Ptolemaic actor); I think it should be removed (and the Macedonians should get one). In Hellenistic times Carthage, Rome, Macedon, Rhodes, and the Ptolemies were the naval powers, but not the Seleucids.

Yes, I'm dusting off this old topic. 0 A.D.'s Seleucids have a great architecture set, but I think it's time to have a critical look at their unit roster, as @Genava55 is doing elsewhere for the Britons and Gauls. To start with, I think the Seleucid troops should be based on the reign of Antiochus III the Great (r. 222–187 BC), for several reasons: representative for the Seleucid empire (312–63 BC); a century earlier it was founded; a century later it was reduced to a rump state contemporary of Hannibal, Scipio, and Philip V successful general, many victories (and some defeats), reasserting control over various regions texts from several authors (Polybius, Livius, Arrian) have survived Polybius lists Antiochus' army the Battle of Raphia (217 BC): Livy describes his army at the Battle of Magnesia (190 BC): As does Appian (minor differences): Polybius also describes a parade organized by Antiochus IV (reign 175–164 BC): Currently players have to choose between a traditional army (Silver Shield Pikeman and Scythed Chariot) and a reformed army (Romanized Heavy Swordsman and Seleucid Cataphract). However, the sources make it clear that heavy cavalry was used in combination with pikemen and chariots, so this choice is an artificial dichotomy. Furthermore, the cataphracts in question are apparently Galatians (Celts who sacked Delphi and settled around Ankara). Perhaps something for a mini-faction? [more to follow later]

To start with, where exactly does Arrian make this claim? (I couldn't find it.) Moreover, complete heterochromia is extremely rare in humans. Furthermore, whenever eyes are described in a classical text, it's usually because they're gods. To me, it seems yet another attempt to mythologize the man.

Something that annoys me are the chitons (tunics) of several basic units currently in game, e.g.: mace_infantry_pikeman_b, mace_infantry_javelinist_b, mace_infantry_slinger_b, mace_infantry_archer_b. Wearing the tunic only over the left shoulder was a characteristic of slaves and serfs, leaving the right arm free for hard labour. Free men wore a tunic closing at both shoulders. With the exception of the helots (spart_infantry_javelinist), all warriors in Antiquity were free men and none of them should thus leave a shoulder or chest bare. Perhaps the following text is useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Decree_of_Amphipolis (Full inscription at https://epigraphy.packhum.org/text/152464 ) Inspired by this? That eye-colour bit is nonsense, but his haircut was famous:

Not necessarily. Both animations can coexist without having to be used in the same mod. Fishing boats can keep a melee attack in 0 A.D.'s default distribution, but have a ranged attack instead in certain mods. Or they might even be used against different targets, e.g.: <Attack> <Melee> <MaxRange>5</MaxRange> <Pierce>10</Pierce> <RestrictedClasses datatype="tokens">!Shark</RestrictedClasses> </Melee> <Ranged> <MaxRange>20</MaxRange> <Pierce>10</Pierce> <RestrictedClasses datatype="tokens">!Whale</RestrictedClasses> </Ranged> </Attack>

A pike is handled fundamentally different from a spear: it's so long and unwieldy it requires two hands to fight with. Axe, club, mace, and sabre (single-edged) might share similar hacking animations, I don't know, but true swords (double-edged) could and were used for stabbing and thus require different ones. Furthermore, a two-handed axe is different from a halberd; however, neither existed in Antiquity; the use of two-handed swords is also debatable. Also, slingers? Basically: ranged: bow crossbow javelin sling stone (hand-thrown) ... melee: pike (two-handed) spear (overhand and underhand) dagger (stab) [useful for e.g. archers when secondary attacks are implemented] sword (thrust, slash, hack) machete, sabre, sickle, etc. (slash, hack) axe, club, mace (hack) rhomphaia and falx (two-handed) [Thracian and Dacian] ... A ranged attack for slaves and female citizens? Great! Where can it be found? It would be great if fishing boats were able to hunt (e.g. crocodiles, whales), basically: melee attack: stab with spear or trident ranged attack: throw harpoon gather meat: chop at carcass gather fish: cast net Also, crocodiles should be able to move both on land and in the water, so they could use swimming animations. Neither is related to infantry, though, so I apologize if this is the wrong topic to post.

No idea, I'm not familiar with the art/ files. For recognizability, if would be good if the new Roman centre were similar in shape to those of cart, mace, etc. and in colour similar to the Roman houses.

No marble tiles, please; cobbles are fine. [EDIT]: Also applies to Greek centres and stoas.

As in young goats or as in human children? If the latter, I suppose it was removed to avoid accusations of inappropiateness.

According to https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/17389-committed-hawk/&tab=comments#comment-270123 it's actually a common buzzard (Buteo buteo). I don't know, I'm not an ornithologist.

In case they want more choice, I've listed quite a few species at https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22944-fauna-requests/&tab=comments#comment-340159 I don't expect all of them to be created, obviously, but the more, the merrier Or just tell them to create their favourite animal; any animal that meets the art department's standards should be considered for inclusion.

Thank you for the links, but no, there is not enough information there either. There are hundreds of turtle and tortoise species; so it's simply a matter which one(s) the artist decides to create; the specific name can be easily looked up then. Having said that, I think there should be a separate list for flying birds (e.g. hawk), as opposed to edible birds (e.g. chicken, peacock). The former inherit from `template_bird.xml`, are purely cosmetic, can't be selected or killed, and their templates do not have an <Identity> component, so they don't actually need icons and generic or specific names. Probably albatross, eagle, gull, hawk, parrot, and vulture. The latter inherit from `template_unit_fauna.xml`, have footprint, health, identity, etc. and are a source of food (meat). PS I see you've listed a hen and rooster. What's wrong with the current chicken?

Yes, {civ} is the owner's, {native} is the unit's; see the links fatherbushido posted.

Out of curiosity, are there any balancing changes done in Fork A.D.?

Well, I don't know about you, but I'd like to keep things simple and avoid unnecessary duplication. To start with, I listed all buildable structures in `template_unit_infantry.xml`: The first twenty structures exist for all civilizations, the rest exist only for one or some factions, but not all. This removes the need specify additional structures inside specific templates (e.g. crannog in brit infantry or pillar in maur), something which is easy to forget. The next step was to create some neutral mercenaries (e.g. `cretan_infantry_archer.xml`), because I disliked maintaining separate virtually identical files (e.g. copies for gree, mace, ptol): https://github.com/0abc/0abc-a23/tree/master/simulation/templates/units/merc Then I created neutral mercenary camps with hardcoded units, e.g. `nuba_camp.xml`: This means anyone who controls the camp can train those two units. Finally, because I don't want to touch maps, I made mercenary camps buildable to units of specific factions, e.g. `kush/infantry_archer.xml`: As a result this unit can build the following structures: And the Nuba mercenaries can build the structures that exist for their current owner: I don't use the {native} tag anywhere.

If I understand correctly, the design document as listed on trac is quite outdated, so it seems the idea is to create a new one that's hosted separately ( http://docs.wildfiregames.com/design/ ), first making it descriptive of the current situation, afterwards prescriptive for future direction (at least that's my impression; please correct me, @Itms). I don't expect any major overhauls, though.

Actually I think we should distinguish between: content (actors, animations, icons, maps, sounds, etc.), which have to be up to the art department's standards features, which require serious reviews from the programming team to ensure code doesn't have unintended consequences balance tweaks (e.g. how much health a structure has, unit attack damage, which entities are available to which faction in which phase, etc.); these happen occassionally, as @fatherbushido pointed out, but not frequently enough, according to many people on these forums (There are other things, of course, but those matter less to gameplay.) Mods can really help to test things; however, the more things a mod does, the harder it'll be to get it implemented; hopefully @borg-'s mod will result in a number of small patches that'll be accepted on phabricator and committed to the game.

Having more neutral mercenary camps (e.g. Bactrian, Celtic, Indian, Libyan, Thracian) for use in specific maps would be nice.

0 A.D. does not really distinguish between auxiliaries, locals, and elite mercenaries. I implement things slightly differently: citizen-soldiers can gather and build, mercenaries can build but can not gather, champions can neither build nor gather. Furthermore, embassy hall (own territory) and military colony (territory root) allow training any {civ}_infantry_*_mercenary, whereas mercenary camps (no territory) have hard-coded units: kush can build a Blemmye camp; anyone who captures it can train blemmye_camel_javelinist gree, mace, and ptol can build Greek camp; anyone who captures it can train greek_infantry_spearman, cretan_infantry_archer, and rhodian_infantry_slinger kush can build a Nuba camp; anyone who captures it can train nuba_infantry_javelinist and nuba_infantry_maceman pers, ptol, and sele can build a Nabatean camp; anyone who captures it can train nabatean_camel_archer

0abc updated again: removed resource loot from structures changed unit training queues: women (and brit war dogs) at houses infantry citizen-soldiers at civic centres infantry mercenaries at military colony (ptol, sele), embassy hall (cart, gree, mace, pers), and mercenary camps (kush, pers, ptol, sele) infantry champions at barracks (now city phase structure) all cavalry and bigae at cavalry stable all elephantry at elephant stable all siege engines and quadrigae at workshop Seleucids can upgrade their centre in town phase: various minor tweaks and corrections To do: teach AI to build more than two barracks and one elephant stable (because the elephants are limited to 5 times the number of elephant stables).

Here you go:

The list in the first post you mean? Yeah, I could look them up. Also, I believe lion, lioness, muskox, pig, and peafowl are already in game. Furthermore, flamingo and ostrich were already listed, and goose is now there three times.

It's great cattle has been added to the game. Now I'm hoping for more poultry: mallard (Anas platyrhynchos) greylag goose (Anser anser) mute swan (Cygnus olor) turkey (Meleagris gallopavo) helmeted guineafowl (Numida meleagris) Dalmatian pelican (Pelecanus crispus) common pheasant (Phasianus colchicus) greater flamingo (Phoenicopterus roseus) common ostrich (Struthio camelus) African sacred ibis (Threskiornis aethiopicus)

Don't worry, I have no ambition to start creating any new maps. All I wanted to know is how to tweak the area covered by the Red Sea map.