Nescio

What's fundamentally wrong with it is that the cothon is **not** a stone pier built in the sea: it is an artificial circular harbour dug out on land: and the term refers to the entire naval base (outer structures, water circle, optional island).

Whether the Athenian acropolis was a single sanctuary with numerous temples and statues or an area with numerous separate, adjacent sanctuaries is not really important; I suppose both could be argued to be true. And no, Ephesus was never an integral part of Sparta, it was nominally an independent city-state, although in practice it had a succession of overlords (Athens, Sparta, Persia, Macedon, Seleucids, Ptolemies, Attalids, Rome). Anyway, that's beside the point. What matters is that there were multiple temples of Athena in Athens and presumably multiple sanctuaries of Artemis in the Spartan lands, therefore epithets are not only decorative but also distinctive. The ptol wonder is indeed problematic. Although built by the Ptolemies, the temple of Edfu is very much an Egyptian temple: Egyptian iconography, hieroglyphic inscriptions, traditional architecture, local cult, etc. I don't know of any relevant Greek epithets there and I doubt they could be found. I suppose ἱερόν τῆς Ἀπόλλωνος πόλεως “temple of Edfu” or ἱερόν τῇ Ἀπόλλωνος πόλει “temple in Edfu” could work (although there were multiple lesser Appolonopoleis, I don't think including the qualifier “Great” is necessary for us; there were also several mountains called Olympos in Greece).

Exactly! Which is why I'm arguing in favour of including the epithets, to avoid confusing the temple of Athena Parthenos with that of Athena Nike (both are on the Athenian Acropolis), or the temple of Artemis Orthia in Lacedaemon with the far more famous temple of Artemis in Ephese. See Roman wonder (“Aedes Iovis Optimi Maximi”) for comparison.

Epithets are meaningful. Why did you exclude it from the athen and spart wonders but include it in those of mace and sele? No objections; both τό ἱερόν “holy place” and ὁ νᾱός “temple, shrine” are correct, as is the more technical τό τέμενος “cut off land, sacred area, precinct, sanctuary” (roughly equivalent to Latin templum). Thanks, Aelian VH 6.12 is indeed clear; let's use Hoplothēkē “armoury” for the siege workshop then.

Yes, neōsoikoi is indeed perfect for this: However, for a larger naval base, neōrion (sg) or neōria (pl) is certainly appropiate, e.g. a Greek equivalent to Carthage's cothon: (The actor of which is actually completely wrong, but that's a different discussion.) What exactly does your technology do? You could consider using some other phrase, e.g. ναυπηγοί naupēgoi “shipbuilders/shipwrights”.

In case someone is curious (or ambitious):

Yes, but what might be done in the future is irrelevant. The current specific names ought to be based on the current wonders. How about the following? athen: temple of Athena Parthenos mace: temple of Olympian Zeus ptol: temple of Apollo sele: temple of Pythian Apollo spart:temple of Artemis Orthia Only if you want to; it's a suggestion, not an obligation; ergasterion “workshop” isn't perfect but does work. As for synergeion poliorkias, πολῐορκία means “siege of a city”, but συνέργειον = συνέργιον = συνεργᾰσία means “company or guild of fellow workmen” or “a place where many slaves are lodged, a workers' barracks”; thus not exactly what you mean, probably. Toxobolia is not an option, because the practice range is not limited to archery only; javelineers and slingers are trained there as well; and because τοξοβόλια is unattested. Where did you find it? No modern Greek, I hope? Hear are some terms you could consider: τό ἐμπόριον emporion: trading-station, also commercial port ὁ λῐμήν limēn: harbour ὁ λῐμήν κλειστός limēn kleistos: walled harbour τό ναυπεγεῖον naupegeion: shipyard τό ναυπέγιον naupegion: shipbuilder's yard, dockyard τό νεώριον neōrion: dockyard nāvālia in Latin ὁ νεώσοικος neōsoikos: dock, shipshed, slip, boathouse ὁ ὅρμος hormos: mooring place, dock, anchorage ἡ σκευοθήκη skeuothēkē: chest for all kinds of σκευή [equipment]; arsenal; shed for storing sails, masts, oars, etc.

Minor tweaks: structures can no longer attack structures outposts no longer have attack or vision of there own; instead, outposts has aura which improves garrisoned unit; one unit can be garrisoned on it, instead of inside; can be killed indepently from outpost (cf. walls); ungarrisoned outpost: garrisoned outpost:

LSJ writes κέστρειον, not κέστεριον; probably too obscure, though; I only suggested it because ἐργαστήριον isn't perfect either. Whilst I agree looking for a Greek equivalent of arsenal makes sense, I'm not yet fully convinced ὁπλοτήκη “armoury” is what we want for the workshop; the word itself suggests shields etc. for melee infantry and the last excerpt given (Appian) implies they where separate from the war machines. There are probably more appropiate Greek terms somewhere. Maybe Polybius has something useful? Yes: the wonders. The Parthenon makes sense for the Athenians, but not really for Macedon and Sparta, therefore they should be given different names. I vaguely recall there was a large and important Artemis sanctuary in Lakedaimon; I don't know about Macedon, maybe a Zeus temple? For the Ptolemies, I've no objections to your suggestion to rename the temple of Edfu (Apollonopolis), interpretatio graeca was widespread. For the Seleucids, theirs was dedicated to the Pythian Apollo.

Please reread earlier posts in this thread to avoid missing relevant points. τό στρατέγιον means “general's tent”, which is why I recommended ἡ στρατοπεδεία, ἡ στρατοπέδευσις, or ἡ στρατόπεδον “encampment” instead for the barracks using ἀγορά for the civic centre off all Greek factions for consistency and reserving βᾰσίλειον for a future palace structure is sensible. elephant stable with τῶν ἐλεφᾰ́ντων, as discussed earlier the practice range is not limited to archery exclusively, slingers and javelineers are trained there too, therefore we probably should use ψῑλοί “light troops” (i.e. ranged infantry) instead, e.g. ἡ στρατοπεδεία τῶν ψῑλῶν towers could be differentiated with the use of (attested) diminutives: wall tower: ὁ πύργος defence tower: τό πυργίον small tower: τό πυργίδιον as for the workshop, ὁ μηχᾰνητής “siege engineer” is a person/unit, therefore inappropiate for a place/structure; unless we can find a better alternative, I strongly recommend to stick with τό ἐργαστήριον “workshop” maybe we should try looking into a different direction. τό κέστρειον is probably a bit obscure, though Actually it could be done once for all Greek factions; updated earlier post:

Personally I strongly recommend to use a single language/direct, rather than an amalgam taken from different ones. Some relevant things were posted in https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24046-voice-over-artist/ , perhaps those ought to be merged into here. Without people who know the language(s), nothing will change, though. Adding new civilizations is low priority, and rightly so: correcting, improving, and maintaining the existing ones is already a lot of work, none of those is finished yet. But if we are dreaming, then the most important gaps are in the 150-1 BC timeframe: Parthia and Greater Armenia peaked here and including Han China would be great too; Pontus is probably too unimportant. Other sensible additions could be Scythians, Thracians, Illyrians, Galatians, and Numidians.

But you can't build catalfalques

Let's stay on topic. I'm asking for clarification because I'm confused: several of your posts in this thread appear to be talking about different things. Posting what is desired is nice, but discussing how something could be implemented is important too. Some things that might seem easy are techically complicated (e.g. changing font), whereas some things that might sound daunting are actually quite easy (e.g. creating a mod).

Good question! It's something I tried in my mod as well, but reverted it, because I couldn't get it working. It is possible to have entities without armour and health (e.g. trees), but apparently not buildable things such as structures (because of foundations or build time?).

What exactly do you mean? Your patch ( https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1803 ) was accepted and implemented in the development version two months ago and your name is in the credits.

Ah, I see; perhaps include audio or voices in the thread's title to avoid unnecessary confusion. I myself have zero experience with audio files, but I assume others (@Itms, @OmriLahav, @Samulis, @Stan`) can give you sound advice. There is a trac wiki page, but it's probably partially incorrect and outdated. The sensible thing to do seems to me to be: get a complete list of English phrases write down the proper (polytonic) Greek equivalents [optional]: transcribe those into IPA, so people without any knowledge of Greek can pronounce it record everything and upload the audio files find other people to record the same to have some variants (preferably three male and three female voices) [repeat for other languages or dialects] It's probably a lot of work to create a single audio file, let alone a full set, therefore it's debatable whether it's really a worth it to aim for one audio voice set per faction (instead of one per language); having complete and correct Attic would already be great.

What is it exactly what you want? use the Greek alphabet (upper case only, simple, polytonic) for Greek specific names: can already be easily done with a mod render the entire game in ancient Greek: can be done with a translation (transifex) use a different font in game: requires knowledge of python script and possibly code changes release a font you created into the public domain: does not require 0 A.D. something else: ...

Thanks, I don't know how transifex works, but it would be great if you could do that! As for language tags, la for Latin, el for Modern Greek, grc for Classical Greek, and gmy for Mycenean Greek (although I highly doubt anyone is ever going to write that). I'll have a look at the plural form rules later.

The sensible thing to do would be to first standardize all the Greek text strings in game to proper Attic, using the newly adopted romanization. A review of specific names was started in January, see the relevant forum threads: structures: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25268-specific-name-review-structures/ units: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25284-specific-name-review-units/ As for the Athenians, Attic is well attested and should provide no serious difficulty (except for artificial entities such as an archery range). As for the Spartans, modern comparative linguistics is very successful at identifying and explaining sound shifts and knows how different Greek dialects evolved. In principle it's doable to convert Attic into Doric equivalents. The question is whether it is desirable. It seems artificial to use reconstructed (how we believe something should have been written) rather than attested (how we know something was actually written) forms. Besides, it might be potentially confusing for ordinary players to use different forms of Greek. (Why does Athens have this and Sparta that? Did they make a mistake? Don't they know what they're doing?) As for Macedonian, we know it existed and was closely related to Greek, but that's about it. There is not even consensus whether it was a Greek dialect, a sister language, or a different branch of Indo-European (cf. Phrygian, Thracian, Illyrian), nor when it died out. There were strong and ancient ties between Macedon and Athens (they feature together in several myths; foreign trade of Macedon was initially dominated by Athenian colonies, especially Amphipolis; the Macedonians sent sons to Athens for education; when on opposing sides during the Persian wars they remained friendly; famous scholars where said to be invited to the royal court); the subject people didn't write and the Macedonian upper class (royalty, nobility, and, consequently, military) adopted Attic. (And because they subsequently conquered the known world, koine is largely based on Attic.) In short, it's probably best to stick with Attic for the Macedonians. As for the Ptolemies and Seleucids, koine was typically written the same as Attic—albeit frequently with more mistakes and occassionally new words. As for audio voices, I believe the idea was orginally to have two sets, Attic for the classical factions (Athens, Macedon, Sparta), koine for the Hellenistic factions (Ptolemies, Seleucids). Creating proper audio files is a lot more complicated and time consuming than correcting text strings, though. That's true, the Erasmian pronunciation is widespread in academia, even though people know it's strictly speaking incorrect; the purpose of language is to be understood, so how people pronounce things is largely based on what is common amongst their peers (and also influenced by nationality, native tongue, or enducation), rather than what is the original.

First of all, Mauryas, please, not Mauryans (it took a long time to get this fixed). That could be done with a translation (via transifex); currently the available options (see Settings/Language in game) are modern languages, including Greek and Ukrainian, but in principle Classical Greek and Latin translations could be added—it would be great to have—but as with everything else, it requires motivated people to actually do the work. It doesn't matter something is paid for, what matters is under which licence the font is released by its creator (e.g. CC-BY-SA 4.0). That said, I wouldn't recommend you to spent time and money on it right now. Because the typical 0 A.D. player does not know any foreign scripts, the policy is and always has been to render native languages in the Latin alphabet. The idea to display other scripts is little more than a dream of something that might be nice to have in the distant future.

A missed opportunity. The adopted standard is not a one-to-one map and meaningful information (vowel length, accents) is lost. But if that's what you want, so be it, let's move on, there are inconsistencies waiting to be fixed. I've updated the trac wiki page accordingly. The game has no difficulty with displaying (polytonic) Greek, so that could be done in a mod already. As for the other languages, finding a font that supports Brahmi and Old Persian Cuneiform is not trivial.

Each resource subtype (fish, fruit, grain, etc.) has its own gather animation, action icon, and gather rate. However, the automatically generated tooltips display a single food gather rate, which is the average of its subtypes; this is misleading and incorrect. Perhaps it should display individual gather rates for all resource subtypes; figuring out a way to do so without the tooltip becoming cluttered and potentially confusing is not trivial, though. And yes, food is now represented by a meat icon; perhaps someone ought to create a new one more representative of its subtypes, e.g. including fish, fruit, grain, and meat; it should remain clear at small size, of course. A very good point. What would you think best to replace the repair hammer with, a generic gather icon (e.g. a bucket), the resource icon (e.g. food), or the subtype icon (e.g. grain)? You're not mistaken, the farm field tooltip was corrected relatively recently in the devopment version (A24), see https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1803 for discussion.

It is actually the other way around: `template_structure_resource_field.xml` has `<DiminishingReturns>0.90</DiminishingReturns>`, which I believe means each subsequent worker is 10% less efficient than the previous, i.e. the first one 0.9^0=1, the second 0.9^1=0.9, the third 0.9^2=0.81, the fourth 0.9^3=0.729, the fifth 0.9^4=0.6561. The total of five workers on a single farm is 4.0951, i.e. 0.81902 on average. This is reflected in the tooltip: `<Tooltip>Harvest grain for food. Each subsequent gatherer works less efficiently.</Tooltip>`.

And I just listened to this—it's beautiful!

As for the audio voices, I never listened to them, I always play games muted. Nonetheless, I don't expect them to be perfect; the Persian is reportedly Farsi (800 AD onwards—but probably Iran 2018), which is quite different from Darius' Old Persian (c. 500 BC). If you have the equipment, skill, time, and motivation to correct, update, and replace audio recordings, please, don't hesitate to go ahead.