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A little explanation. For performance issues, having a big mesh, is less heavy for a computer than having a thousand little meshes, therefore I attempt, to make a big patch (pattern) with trees. So there will be two releases. First One Mesh/One Texture Then A separate mesh for each object or object group, Since It's a huge task i'll be posting some pictures of the models that i made until I'm done. Deprecated

Do you know what the Socratic method is? The idea is that conflicting ideas and views should be presented to each other, with the eventual goal of promoting critical thinking. This is very important when having a discussion, you can't ignore what the other side has to say because then your own ideas won't move forward. Conflicting opinions are a good thing, it's what you want when you want to discuss a subject and give all parties a better understanding of the situation. If you think suggestions are bad, then you have to, at very least, give arguments as to why that's the case. Conflicting opinions should be discussed, not scoffed at. An idea which is the fruit of a good discussion is always much better than the idea of a single individual. As to the balance situation, I have mixed feelings. I think that the consensus is that spear cavalry are indeed not so great at the moment, so I'll just leave that and discuss ranged units versus melee units. I made a scenario in the editor where I pit 18 spear infantry units against 18 skirmishers. Interestingly enough, when I a-move the spear infantry into the skirmishers, the spear infantry win with roughly 8 or so units left. I tested this more than once. However, when I go the other side and micro the 18 skirmishers, the skirmishers can win with 15 or so (probably more if I micro more carefully) units left. This is done with hit and run but also spreading the skirmishers. So this is a good thing. I think that it's good design to have melee units win against ranged units in a melee fight. This means that positioning is what wins fight, not just the unit you chose to make. Very, very good. However, I feel that skirmishers (and probably most ranged units) are still too strong compared to their melee counterparts. I think that the general idea is that armies should have melee infantry as their backbone, not ranged units. As it currently is, I feel that ranged units aren't really support units (units which can turn the tide of a fight, but can't win them by themselves), they're truly the meat of an army. This is illustrated by the fact that 18 spear infantry units will beat 18 skirmishers with around 8 spear infantry units left over, however 36 spear infantry will lose to 36 skirmishers with 4 or so skirmishers left over. This is normal, the bigger armies get, the more the advantage goes to ranged units since they can fight easily; melee units have to move around. This lessens the importance of position, which in my opinion isn't really the way to go. As things stand currently, ranged units are simply quite strong and they're the units you really want to make. Melee units are the support units, since they protect ranged units against melee cavalry. This kind of interaction is one akin to that of Age of Empires 3, however the time period is quite differently. Historically speaking, I believe that tough melee units were the ones which won wars; ranged units were given a support role. As for swordsmen being too strong, interestingly enough 18 mauryan swordsmen lose consistently to 18 skirmishers. I'll need to do my tests with other units, obviously, but so far the point stands. I truly believe that ranged units should be given less HP or something, to give them a support emphasis rather than a standing army emphasis. Not to mention that skirmishers are faster than melee units as well.

I just found some new information about the Han Dynasty archery, apparently the ordinary "cylinder quiver" was used as well. Han Dynasty bow and quiver found at Niya Site at Tarim Basin. The bow was found together with this archery bracer, which become the national treasure of China. This reconstruction of hǔ bēn （虎贲）palace guard used a replica of the bracer. So apparently cylinder quiver (carried on hip) is used for arrow, while box quiver (mounted uptight on the back) is used for crossbow bolt. Could be useful as a distinguishing feature between archer and crossbowman too. I revised my post on the first page accordingly. Update：Horse Advanced Elite Han Dynasty horse decoration basically amounts to lots and lots of tassels. Yeah. More elite horse = more tassel, I guess. Updated all my first page's posts accordingly.

This is a topic dedicated to all the racks that will be available in Atlas. Weapon racks: -Spears, Javelins and Pillums (can use the same rack models, different props) + 1 bamboo rack for the mauryan spears -Swords -Axes -Armour -Shields -Bows -Fishing tools (oars, rod, etc.) -Mining tools Different models & textures to fit with different civs. Here's a quick model I made (a simple celtic spear rack): EDIT: Current set:

wraitii sAys it's normal and sets it as wont fix for now since its not a "normal" camera

There is a Chinese-made Tang Dynasty AOEII mod somewhere. I can post some picture if I have the time, for reference only, of course.

Well, those famous red herrings I guess

Sorry for double post but at least this allows to keep different ideas separate. I notice that a lot of units still have hybrid damage. I thought the idea, going forward, was that melee units would deal only hack damage, ranged units only pierce damage and siege units only crush damage. I think it would simplify things greatly to use this configuration.

what auron actually means (I think) is to change the default formation into the 'no formation' button (rather than the box formation):

Factoid... The Forgotten uses art from the mod "Rome at War" made by Wildfire Studios back in 2001, later turned into Wildfire Games. I'm not sure if people can even still install this mod... http://wildfiregames.com/raw/

Oh i ´ m sorry feneur by pattern i meant big mesh with logs glowers bushes etc( Could also have animated animals in the the zone but that´s out of my skills even trees are.) We could also have looping sound assigned to that mesh but that would require some coding (It would work like soldiers) So i am making each prop then i will merge them on one mesh and make a big texture.

So will this faction have champion units or not? IMHO I think we still need them, since all other factions have them and the unit roster does seem quite boring by comparison especially during late game. I understand the point about how existing units already cover all roles so maybe to balance things out a couple may need to be cut, nerfed or re-purposed? Another possibility is to have champion units trainable only from a palace type structure not dissimilar to the Persian one of which only one can be built. This would reflect their historical role as defenders of the imperial capitals. As for what they are I would suggest: 羽林騎/Yulin Cavalry: An armoured but slower cavalry archer that can also melee with sword. 斬馬劍/Zhanmajian Swordsmen: Two handed swordsmen for anti cavalry and heavy infantry. 將軍/General: Works like a 'mini-hero'. Fights like a sword cavalry but has a small aura that boosts the efficiency of nearby units. Maybe only 3-5 can be trained?

And that exactly results into a fragmented community...

Who are you? lol. My point is, there are many conflicting opinion on this board (and a lot of suggestion are downright bad). Hopefully designer can parse and make a balanced game once all the features are done.

Your link doesn't work anymore unfortunately, if you drop by the forums, could you please update it ? I'm gathering all the eyecandy objects to include it in the eyecandy mod. So that mappers (if people still want to make maps, have all the sort of things they want.

I see. Now I think being 'selective' is the only way to make a China faction properly. Eyecandy (Note: His equipment is historical)