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but do they have to be twice as fast? wouldnt 1.5× or even 1.3× as fast be fast enough? I feel like this would be an unnecessary "unification" of playstyles across different civs. A civ with good defensive options could (if walls, forts, towers werent so bad) secure their eco without needing to keep troops at home and force the enemy cav to take a fight by attacking the enemy base. Then the cav die to normal spearman and no "quick" counter unit is necessary.

As you can see from this thread, a consensus will never happen as for the solutions @real_tabasco_sauce makes the all the balancing PRs that get approved by the team atm. So rly it's almost about convincing him. With current production stats (cost, prod time..) more durable units actually makes the game feel more spamy. This because there are much more situation where both sides can sustain sending troops on the front-line, replacing dying units by new one for a long while. Since melee re-balance, this happens more rarely, as battles tend to play out slightly faster. I'll maintain that it did have a positive impact on the gameplay, also because it put less importance on sniping making other things matter more.

don't know why you'd say that. Compared to last year, the model has improved and also apparently acquired some understandment of the game, but still the strict majority of the recommendations given in that answer are trash.

Speed. I think all cav could use a nerf. Setting their speed an about equal to fanatics seems about right with melee cav being slightly faster and range cav being the same as fana (also, would make fana a better counter, which I think it needs to be) also, what exactly is the 3x counter? (Just want to make sure everyone is on same page) kind of related, but melee inf should get a speed boost too. But that’s more of a range vs melee balancing issue.

Ranged cavalry are already within that range (x1.3-x1.6 of inf equivalent) melee cavalry have more and I feel it is smart gameplay-wise as melee cav intuitively can be used to: engage backlines be able to counter ranged cavs raid with comparable effectiveness as skirmisher cavs. All 3 scenarios require melee cavalry to have this additional speed.

I’ve left it alone so far. Or are you saying it should be lowered? everyone chill out, these aren’t final! I’m setting up some stuff in the community mod. If we spend some time testing seriously, we can figure out what works and what doesn’t.

I like this strategical discussion. It's important to clarify what "we" want before you/we do any changes. Regarding this, my opinion is that more durable and fewer units on the battlefield what makes good RTS. More micro abilities not just Attack move and few target-fire clicks... It seems 0AD is too spamy now.

I prefer this. We make cav because we want speed. Otherwise, who would do cav when inf is cheaper and more useful as workers? Definitely not. Units die too fast now and we just see people getting vapourised. 2v1 or bad fight = instant death -> more demanding on good ally and pocket -> less tolerance and more toxicity -> more DoctorOrgans behaviour + exclusion of newer players @real_tabasco_sauce please reconsider the bonus on spear cav against other cavs. The issue is, most civs don't have spear cav. So as soon as someone makes a dozen spear cav, these civs Gaul, Brits, Athen, Maury, Sele are banned from using cav (unless they spam spear champs in P3). Is this what we want? Suggestion: due to the special nature of spear cav, we should give every civ a counter unit, e.g. fanatic, or just give every civ a spear cav option.

Basically I think what would be nice is to have cavs used for their mobility, and not a unit that will always be the best suited in all situations as main core troop. To keep melee cav skirmishing still possible they need to have mobility, but being less effective then infantry to fight as front-lines. Restoring x2 spear cav vs cav would also make them a good choice when needing to counter ranged cavs. Strong counters is a easy way to make units more balanced overall because one player can... counter... any unit "abused" by it's opponent.

UPDATE: Version 0.8.2 - The price update interval on the Market was increased from 7 to 10 seconds. - Barter has 10 times less influence on the change of prices for resources. Thus, reverse barter deals aimed at raising or lowering prices will be unprofitable for the player. At the same time, players have the opportunity to: 1. make highly efficient barters during price jumps. 2. barter resources on roughly equal terms with other players. Examples of prices at the start of 2 games

Sounds good. I'm a little worried the 3x counter will be too much against CS cav. But we will see and adjust, if necessary.

Trying to make the maiden guard units for maury more interesting: archer: 100 wood, 90 metal 1.75 sec fire rate 90 hp, higher pierce armor, lower hack armor faster move speed and accel less range less attack prepare time swordswoman: 100 food, 90 metal lower hp less pierce armor higher hack armor faster move speed and accel https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod/pulls/70 1546905375_ScreenRecording2025-06-15171601.mp4

3x spearmen/pikemen against cav. @chrstgtr @Arup I agree with you both on speed. Im doing the cav counter (2.5x to 3x) since it was widely requested earlier, but I’d like to experiment with some speed balance in the future.