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Romulus

[Mod Proposal] The Elder Scrolls RTS - With MuteLoveStone

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TES technically does not have one.

@MuteLoveStone

If we were to compile all your ideas into one project, wouldn't an RTS like this be something to consider?

A few factions...

Akiiveri

Kahjiit armires

Imperial Empire

Skyrim's civil war Ulfrik VS Jarls

Regards

Aldmeri Dominion

Edited by Romulus

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well that sounds like a good idea but a few things come to mind,

im pretty sure they have alot of thier things copywrited as they have

Books

Games And now an online game

[Edit] Was hoping to do this, but i looked online and it seams Bethesda is really picky about thier Ideas, so i will have to politely decline this request. sorry but i have had enough issues with the law and dont need anymore trouble

Edited by MuteLovestone
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Y'know what's funny? I was working on a Tamriel mod for Age of Wonders. If you want, I can help dig up plenty of lore and research.

You can get away with making a thing like this, if it's for non-profit. I don't know if that's how you'd want to take it, though.

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I guess you just can't because of the licence of the game (CC-BY-SA) If you make a mod you allow people to sell it...

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What do you mean? If you make the mod and distribute it for free then surely there should be no problems as you're not making a profit from Bethesda's IP..

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Well that means that anybody can sell any part of the game. Which means that you will have a copyright issue.

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No, they can't sell it. That breaches copyright, yes - but if you made a freely available fan-made game then I don't see why that would be a problem.

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non-profit != CC-BY-SA

For CC-BY-SA, you allow explicitly that others can modify and redistribute your work, under any conditions they want. As long as they mention you as author/creator in some appropriate way, and the modified or redistributed work has the same license.

By mixing CC-BY-SA and other content, you get into problems. F.e. when you take a screenshot containing mixed content. The screenshot is a derivate of CC-BY-SA art, and thus have to be under the same license, which means it allows modifications. But that also means you are allowed to create derivative data of the non-profit art indirectly. Which is most of the time not allowed.

Fun fact, it's even possible to sell CC-BY-SA art, as long as you give it away freely too. But it puts no limit on selling art collections s.a. mods. Some users will buy it for the ease of use, as opposed to downloading all art files separately.

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/

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When they say you have to provide it freely, does that mean you have to give max and blend files ? Or just the Dae ?

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The CC-BY-SA license is made specifically made for artists so they don't have to worry about the legality of their distribution. Sometimes it's hard to keep track of all source files. Thus the CC-BY-SA license only applies to the published content (and everything derived from that point). Nobody can demand you to also publish the source files (in other words, you risk nothing when losing it).

The GPL license is different, that license states that every binary distribution also has to be accompanied with the source, or that the source must always be provided when asked. This would put you into legal problems when you lose the source.

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Me and my development team are thinking of possibly using Pyrogenesis for our own RTS project at some point. With all the work that will be involved, we're most likely going to monetise it too so that we can earn something for our hard work. Of course, the source code would be included, as the license says - but also when pricing the game I will most likely not include the engine into calculating costs as it's not our work. I might even push a little profit back to Wildfire in the form of donations. But that's in the future.

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Me and my development team are thinking of possibly using Pyrogenesis for our own RTS project at some point. With all the work that will be involved, we're most likely going to monetise it too so that we can earn something for our hard work. Of course, the source code would be included, as the license says - but also when pricing the game I will most likely not include the engine into calculating costs as it's not our work. I might even push a little profit back to Wildfire in the form of donations. But that's in the future.

There's no problem with monetizing it (as I said before). Mods can even be completely closed source. But that does mean it's not possible to use stuff from the public mod (no scripts or no art), because when it's combined, you get in a legally tricky situation.

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Yea, Well I'm hoping with our project we will be able to avoid using things from the public mod, especially art. Would it be possible to maybe use some modified scripts? (to make things quicker/easier)

Edited by BF_Tanks

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It's all a matter of splitting. Art can't be split, as it can appear together in a screenshot, be combined to one entity etc. It becomes way too difficult to make sure it can never appear together. You are able to split the scripts and the art though. As if you would distribute two mods, one with some modifications to our scripts (which has to be open-source), and one with all your art (which can be proprietary).

You will have to redistribute the scripts as an open source codebase (f.e. host them on github) without using obfuscation.

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Interesting.. Is that required even if the scripts were modified?

Art from the public mod wouldn't be present in a release version, though perhaps during development there might be uses of it temporarily so we know where things can go on the GUI, or if we need a terrain texture whilst our artists make our own. Of course, none of this art would be released outside of the development team.

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Is that required even if the scripts were modified?

Yes as it falls under derivative work. It would be useless if this would not be covered and GPL covers derivative works - so it's not allowed to just modify scripts -- they have to be built up from scratch.

Yet you could rebuild even engine-functionality from time to time but if you ever browsed all the source files you might think different..

This takes years to rebuild.

Thus I think you should rather go for a commercial mod then (like Sander mentioned) -- until the need arises to modify the engine.

Other than that this would lead to troubles as then two open source pyrogenesis engines were around. At first this just would mean that one party had to merge over and over again. Later this becomes even more of a trouble.

So a commercially distributed mod might be the way to go - and if a lot art and simulation euphorism and momentum is put into it, this well might strike like a bolt.

Edit: If you use the mods/public/ content internally without ever publishing it in any form, then it's fine.

Edited by Hephaestion

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I most likely wouldn't change anything on the engine unless I could miraculously add some dedicated physics engine to it (which I most likely will never be able to do). I'd also make sure the engine was up to date. A commercial mod is what we'll go for but hopefully we can remove all the public mod stuff and release it as standalone with the pyrogenesis source packed with it.

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Sure the release in executable form is allowed, the source has to be provided for the engine though. But that Sander already clearly stated.

I'm sure you can recreate the simulation. It's already a huge bonus to have the artwork with CC-BY-SA isn't it? That takes tons of pressure. Sometimes recreating from scratch is even quicker than learning how to use the existing code.

But for the pyrogenesis engine this is not true.

Okay, the simulation has plenty of code too. E.g. this week I queried for 'tech' in the simulation and 112 files popped up. Holy grail. Okay, much of that was XML. Still. You also have to recreate those I guess.

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Well given the scope, idea and theme for our RTS project, a lot of things will be made from scratch or at least based loosely off of what's in the Public mod. The Engine - we will definitely have the source included, and also most likely be constantly updating to keep it the same version as the current 0 A.D.'s release.

Perhaps even automatically, though that could be dangerous if there's an engine change that breaks various scripts.

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