Units look.. samey

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

There are some historical antecedents for like-design shields. Frex, the Spartans ALL sported lamda, the symbol for the Lacadaemoinians, on thier infantry shields as they wanted there to be no doubt as to whom was being faced on the field-of-battle.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Actually, the random shields is the one feature I am looking forqard to the most. Units will still be identifyable - through their weapon. Each civ only has one standard unit that's a swordsman; one who's a spearman; one who's a javelin thrower; etcetera. So, players will learn to identify troops be th type of weapon each unit carries. Learning a new way of identifying troops, as well as being forced to learn the in and outs of each civ's set of art, is what I am looking forward to.

[Aeros]

And another point is that weapons are really ellaborate in 0AD, like for example you can tell a falcata apart from a gladus all the weapons are detailed (if you zoom in to appreciate the detail)

[Caesar]

I like the idea of random shields for some civs like the Hellenes and Celts, but I dont think it would work too well for civs like the Romans.

I like the way of identifying units by weapons though.

[Centurion_13]

well not every roman shield looked the same, and battledamage certainly isnt the same on everyone's shields.

[Paal_101]

Shields were quite different for the Romans, Caesar. It was all dependent on the painting done on it, which in the Punic-era was individualized. It was only after Marius in roughly 100 BC that armor and weapons (including shield blazons) were standardized.

Plus if you are wondering we will be using four different types of armor and five helmet types for the Romans alone. Not to mention the Greeks

[Caesar]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up

By the way, 0ad will have the pre-punic Romans, right?

[Paal_101]

For Part I it will Punic War Romans, roughly 250 to 130 BC time frame for these weapons and armor types. Then for Part II we will be doing Imperial Romans, roughly 40 to 150 AD, covering the invasion of Britain, Jewish Revolt, Dacian War, etc And there is even rumors of a Late Roman (350 to 450 AD) side to battle the Goths and Huns

[Mabuse]

One of the goals of the game is to get away from the "attack of the clones" look we see in modern RTS and RTT titles, such as Rome:Total War.

Only wanted to mention that this don`t annoy people (like me - ) to much, i don`t want to play "SIM life" - i want to play a strategy game.

of course this is a nice Detail, when ALL OTHER is good to very good.

When i would have the Choice of a Game where you have 50 Soldiers with different Hair Color, or 1000 Soldiers with the same Hair Color - i guess i would have more Fun with 1000 Units

Beside this i don`t think it will take much calculate Power, or that this will reduce Amount of Units, but i am the bad Guy who says that this is a low priority Detail

[Mythos_Ruler]

I can see your point and agree with it, but look at it from my perspective... I am one of Art Department guys. My main concern and responsibility is the art for the game (and to a lesser extent, some of the game design aspects, but that's a little OT). If there's anything simple we can add to the game that will make it more unique in the art and graphics aspect that is easy to implement, I am all for it. Like you said, all the nifty little graphical things like different styles of beards and random eye colors don't mean a thing unless the game is designed right. Now, the game will be a good game (just take my word for it), so as an art guy, I am all gung ho about the little visual touches we can provide for this game to enhance the "feel" of the game and to make it unique in the RTS world.

[Paal_101]

Trust me, all of these guys will be easily identifiable and will fight like crazy. Its all done with the use of props, which when combined with a library will make randomization a snap.

[Mabuse]

ok, only wanted to say it, as it was the first thought that came in my mind.

On the second look it might be of course interesting, especially for SCN when you may identify People not only by their "UnitName"

Of course it may be also useful then to be able to set these manually -

--------

and finally to be a bit "ironic" -

maybe it will not last until there is another Game Develoment Studio that says something like:

"And in "Clash of the Titans" the UNits will become REALLY individually, not only virtual clones with some changed Textures like in 0ad, no, we have several MODELS for different Sizes of the People - so that some People are bigger, have bigger or smaller Feet" -... and so on

(joke of course)

[Mythos_Ruler]

We don't go that far.

"Yeah, but in 0 A.D. each soldier wore his own brand of underwear (and some not at all)!

[Titus Ultor]

That concept both excites and disturbs me, Michael. ;p

Seriously... the world of the ancients was a very varied and artistic one: many cultures used art as a function in pleasing the gods. Now wonder they tried so hard, eh? Shields and other forms of equipment (especially among barbarians) were seen as more than just gear for killing and avoiding being killed. They were seen more as avatars of one's heritage and religion, of honor and nobility. The idea of uniform equipment would probably have made many Celtic peoples uneasy, to say the least.

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

Heya, Herr Doktor... good to cya weighing in.

On the second look it might be of course interesting, especially for SCN when you may identify People not only by their "UnitName"

If it works out the way we've planned it, EVERY unit you train in any game type available played will have his/her own name.... the same going for the opp. So you can see that would extend beyond the ScnEd into RM, DM, etceteras. That will probably, with exception for heroes, be randomly generated into the langueage of the civ being played (each civ will speak its own language during gameplay); however, presumably, you will be able to select from a list of names for the units you select in the ScnEd for creation of your scenario, or even create new names as well.

This is a goal of the design in development, of course, but well 'advanced' in the documentation... at least, at this point.

It could happen too, when dealing with certain ancient languages, that the list of names we have found available to us (though most are quite extensive) could be exhausted having been run through and still yet more units to train and bring to life, so it's entirely possible that thier might be more than one 'Doktor Mabuse' on the playing field.

[Mabuse]

We don't go that far.

"Yeah, but in 0 A.D. each soldier wore his own brand of underwear (and some not at all)!

←

lol

if this wouldn`t be a Reason that would make 0ad one of the best RTS Games ever - then i don`t know any

@TitusUltor: Maybe it would be even possible to use different Models (with different equitment) to represent a certain CLASS of Soldiers, but still this Game would be an RTS game game, which classifies people - i mean, i reality EVERY MEn adn WOMAN has different health, strengh, dexterity - but in an RTS Game all this doesn`t matter - the Units of one class will/should have the same stats

@RealDeal: if there are poepole get annyoed that some NAmes may be used mort than one, then just tell them that they should take a look at reality

Overall, i think i get used to this Idea,

[Paal_101]

Oh there will be unit types/classes. The man use for randomization in 0 AD is for physical appearance.

[tauhammerhead]

so we will get different faces and people in the game? Even though they are the same class, sorry, this might have been asked before i dont know

[Mythos_Ruler]

Basically.

[tauhammerhead]

wow, thats pretty advanced isnt it? This game is gonna be so much better than all other rts games, well i hope it is, it certainly looks like it is gonna be a pretty fine one

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

There will almost always be some degree of adversity (a price to pay) associated with suffering any potential adversity or in not overcoming it. The watchwords for dealing with that are to, "Turn adversity into opportunity".

Following this 'dictum' as a matter of course permits one (or groups) to realize greater success than would otherwise be achievable though it is not just being optimistic except in the sense of, well, here's something that we might turn around, stand on its head, turn inside-out, expand, deflate, disassemble and put back together in a different form of its several parts (Lego blocks, frex), morph into a slighty different shape tyhat changes purpose/result, tweak just a bit to achieve a desired or different result(s) by 'pushing' the attributes through the sorting sieve of morphological analyses... applying all of those methods of 'creative thnking' that can be applied to analysis in addition to through straightline inductive and deductive reasoning as well as knowledge gained of study of 'its' systemic parts to include its defined limits and constraints (deliberated design limitations) that may not be overcome with respect to its time, place and circumstance.

That's a rather long way of saying, "Pursue opportunity (as such that you can recognise it) while at the same time turning any adversity into opportunity".

This has been the goal of the Design Department, and in the largest sense by all of the departments of the team as a whole, in 'putting together' what we hope will become an outstanding game to play that will have long replayability and broad acceptance for a 'well done, mates' by the fanbase. Thus every department follows these precepts though they may not individually state it in exactly the same terms, and we move forward in concerted effort with one another.

@ Mabuse:

@RealDeal: if there are peeple get annyoed that some NAmes may be used mort than once, then just tell them that they should take a look at reality

I think that almost goes without saying and don't really perceive it as being a potential 'problem' that'll have to be dealt with (the essence being more like commonly inferrable as to 'why?'). The likelihood is that if you have several hundred units in your game, you are not going to recall the individual names of every one of them, anyway... except perhaps for your hero(es) and/or super units of one kind or another. Still, it'll be nice that in naming some units the convention is followed in naming all whether that be specifically or randomly from a list based upon 'class'. And, of course, thuis could definitely provide for added benefit to scenario design by the individual designers in the fanbase. Thus, an ScnEd designer can take a 'common man' and develop an entire story around him and 'his buddies band-of-brothers'...ergo an added fillup of flexibility in the gameworks.

[Paal_101]

Poetic as always Ken Its going to be interesting to see what kinds of scenarios/campaigns the community will create for the game. Hopefully we'll get a few original stories from them i.e. Demetrius go with his buddies to Plataea......

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

Oh, I have no doubt, Paul, that if we can make it in the manner in which we want to that they will come to play it, and if they play it and like it they will create for it, and some will even go so far as to recreate it in ways we havin't even thought of... such is the mob of creativity that has been clamouring at our door for several years now impatient for us to 'get on with it'. That latent waiting mob is so large that we couldn't possibly accomodate them all by putting them onto the development team else they'd overwhelm us and the job would never get done, so it is our task to provide the foundation from which they may exercise it as best we can and then let them have go at it.

Can thee also see Icarus flying about high above the Aegean as a modded eagle?

[Mythos_Ruler]

I am positive someone will mod into the game all the myth units from AOM. (hmmm, might be cool for us to include a few myth beasts into the editor for @#$%es and giggles, just to show what can be done and how good our modellers and texturers are!).

[Ykkrosh]

Like Sauron?