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Some feedback


Barade
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Hey,

just downloaded 0 A.D. again because I used to play the older version on Linux. I really love the graphics and gameplay etc. but I have some feedback. If it is the wrong forum just move the thread.

I am just wondering why I cannot set the exact resolution in the game's graphics options. It seems to be 4k but the font is blurred/unclear and can hardly be read so I am not sure how it is done. I have a 4K screen. Btw. in the score screen the space of the 4K is not really filled with the stats. It only uses a minor part of my screen and the numbers/texts which are too long are cut. The minimap could be a bit bigger I think especially with 4K. I played a really big 6 players map and could hardly see most of the stuff.

You could add some different minimap views like military and resources only?

The UI to set the difficulty of the AI and strategy seems a bit weird and it needs an explanation text. Maybe could add something like "AI (difficulty)" in one column and "Defensive/Aggressive" in another or somehow get rid of the text and extra menu.

Clicking on units does not always show some useful stats although there is plenty of space. For example, the attack, defense etc. can only be seen if you click on the details for the unit type. Why not sure more stats directly when selecting the unit?

Is there a button for idle warriors or heroes like in Age of Mythology? I found only the one for idle workers.

Sometimes it was hard to guess the enemy's nation by just clicking on their units. There are some names (the player's name? and the unit type name?) but it didn't show the nation name like "Athen"? It was only shown when I opened Diplomacy window. It would be useful to see the nation when hovering or clicking on the unit together with the player name.

I had the feeling that even with the upgrade ships were really slow and fishing was quite annoying because the ships have a really low sight range and it took a long time to find the next fishing spot manually. Maybe you could add something like those fishing spots/fields from AoE2 or even add some "explore" mode in which they go looking for a next fishing spot in an undiscovered area.

Besides, I was wondering why there are still no campaigns except for the learning campaign? I would really like to play singleplayer so this would be a big improvement for the game. I found some videos online:

If you would add more campaigns to the next release (even if they are still English) it would really help because I have no idea how to download and add them to the game. Even if it is unfinished it would be great. I was also wondering if your editor supports cinematic cutscenes like in Warcraft III or Praetorians etc. This would allow you to make greater campaigns with voice acting etc. or at least different goals to win scenarios like collecting stuff etc. Even in Age of Empires I you had some different winning conditions in the editor although they did not support ingame messages etc. Even in AoE I I really loved to play all the campaigns like the Greek one etc. It would be awesome if you had campaigns like that. I only found the learning campaign.

The rest was just great. I really like the graphics and that your wonder gives more population and you can conquer buildings and have certain area where you can build your buildings. Great project!

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Hi @Barade.

A lot of the things you mentioned are work in progress.

Some answers: Select next idle warrior: Minus, NumDivide (you can look up/change the hotkeys). There's a mod for a bigger minimap. The are some threads about 4k, if you search the forums you might find something. Units' stats are shown when you hover the mouse over the sword & shield symbol, the civ is shown when you hover over the colored bar with the player's name.

I think there are a couple of campaigns, but I'm not aware of one that has been ported to this alpha. I believe there's a way for cinematics, but someone else would have to answer that (or you search the forums).

cheers

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12 hours ago, Barade said:

fishing was quite annoying because the ships have a really low sight range and it took a long time to find the next fishing spot manually. Maybe you could add something like those fishing spots/fields from AoE2 or even add some "explore" mode in which they go looking for a next fishing spot in an undiscovered area.

A simple tip: in the latest version (alpha 25), there are circles of seagulls overflying fishing spots, so they help to identify where there is the fish. Usually ships move automatically to the next spot, but only when it's in close range. They're a bit short-sighted, I agree. I'm not sure if it's intentional from the devs or not

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thx for the quick replies and I am glad to hear that most of it is work in progress. I will try to look at the seagulls next time. I still have to try all other nations. I have some other questions:

- How exactly is the price/cost of the buying/selling resources in the marketplace determined? At some point I get like 1 stone for 100 food and then it changes back later. Is it because of the time or because AI sold stone?!

- Why is scrolling over the map with my mouse soooooo slow and lagging but not with arrow keys?

- Here is an example on how to trigger it with JavaScript but how do I add this code/trigger to the map?! Is there some documentation of the whole API (all possible JavaScript functions) and how to add custom triggers to maps? I only found this Atlas_Manual_Cinematics_Tab – Wildfire Games but it does not say how to add the trigger script? Triggers would really help to create a custom mission which is not only the basic melee game. I found a cinema demo map but when I open it with the Atlas editor, it only shows the camera paths but I can't find any triggers.

- Is there a custom map database or just the threads in this forum but not in the game itself where I can lookup custom maps/download/rate them? For example, if I would like to see if there is a great map of Troy, I would have to search in this forum? The same question could be asked for custom models etc. I just know from Warcraft III that there is this huge modding website https://www.hiveworkshop.com/ with many custom resources which led to so many cool funmaps. I see that you have some mod database and I can download mods.

- Is it possible to import custom resources in one single map only and create custom unit types/objects? I found tutorials like this:

so it seems I have to create java script files/a modification to do that but it is not possible for a single map?

- I know how to move and rotate objects in the editor but is it possible to set the exact facing angle? It would be useful for units like setting 270.0.

- If I would create a scenario with camera movements and some custom triggers and would record it and put it in a small short movie (not a Let's Play!) and put that on YouTube, would it be allowed/legal? I guess everything is under the GPL, even the models and textures etc. right? Does my movie have to be Open Source then?! Some friends and me, we would like to make a small movie/video about the battle of Troy and I thought some bigger fight/battle scenes could be done with a video game. First I thought about using Age of Mythology since I could script video sequences easily with its cinematic mode/borders and it worked well but then I was concerned about legal issues since it is not a Let's Play but some creative stuff. Usually, the companies won't do anything I guess but you never know, so if this game would allow it because of its licensing and it had a propery cinematic API to add at least some cinematic borders and remove selection circles and other ingame UI stuff, I could use that.

 

Edited by Barade
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26 minutes ago, Barade said:

- How exactly is the price/cost of the buying/selling resources in the marketplace determined? At some point I get like 1 stone for 100 food and then it changes back later. Is it because of the time or because AI sold stone?!

Both. There is a baseline ( for 100 x you get 82 y). The more y is bought, the less you get for 100 x. Over time the exchange rate goes toward the baseline, but if players keep buying y it might never reach it again.

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Okay, understood. Maybe it is the same way in AoE2. Did trading work if you had no ally? I forgot about that. If not, maybe you could add neutral trading posts to the maps. I didn't try trading with ships either. Maybe it would work the same way. Sometimes I play only 1 vs 1 and  I still want to trade. In the current AoE4 release they added neutral trading posts which could be used by both players.

Another thing I was wondering about mods. There seems to be lots of useful mods but not all are part of mod.io (I wonder why). Maybe you could add some button to install a mod from a zip file or folder or even a git URL for mods which are not part of mod.io or at least add some explanation text in the mods window where to put manually downloaded mods. It would really help. Otherwise, every mod repo/forum thread has to explain it again. I am not even sure anymore where my 0 A.D. is installed :D

 

About the triggers:

Finally, I found a map which uses custom triggers: https://github.com/0ad/0ad/blob/master/binaries/data/mods/public/maps/scenarios/triggers_demo.xml

and saw that I had to specify the triggers path like ""TriggerScripts": ["scenarios/triggers_demo.js"]," and here I saw what kind of events you provide: https://github.com/0ad/0ad/blob/master/binaries/data/mods/public/maps/scenarios/triggers_demo.js

but it seems rather complicated and I still have no idea what "data" provides! When I test the map with the Atlas editor I can see the output and finally know what data is returned. I have still now idea how I can trigger for example that a unit enters a specific location on the map or how to create camera movements etc. There is only a range event (which might be when another unit comes in range??). Again some documentation would help. This file here https://github.com/0ad/0ad/blob/master/binaries/data/mods/public/maps/scenarios/treasure_islands.js

contains more interesting events like treasure events and notifications in the beginning but I had to find this file and look into it. By testing the first map (triggers_demo) I know now some of the commands which are available for units and got some IDs of the target units.

Maybe some list of ALL available events and functions would help where everything is described. If there is already some wiki page, I did not find it yet.

The Atlas editor has no way of specifying a triggers json file, so I guess I have to create it manually and set it manually in the XML file of the scenario. I have also found this stuff here: https://github.com/0ad/0ad/tree/master/binaries/data/mods/public/maps/scripts and especially the code here: https://github.com/0ad/0ad/blob/master/binaries/data/mods/public/maps/scripts/TriggerHelper.js seems to be useful but again I have no idea if it could be accessed in any map?

It would be really helpful for noob map makers to have some kind of trigger editor which generates the corresponding json files. It would help non programmers to create custom maps. If you know Warcraft III's World Editor, it provides such a simple trigger editor which creates a file containing the trigger data (could be part of your XML file which stores a map) and this trigger data will generate a map script in their own scripting language (in your case it would be JavaScript). For example, you could add ALL possible java script functions for triggers into a file like https://github.com/0ad/0ad/blob/master/binaries/data/mods/public/maps/scripts/TriggerHelper.js  which then is available for every map and document all the functions properly.

Warcraft III trigger editor as example:

If you take a look at Warcraft III, they have files like https://github.com/tdauth/dmdf/blob/master/src/Asl/common.j and https://github.com/tdauth/dmdf/blob/master/src/Asl/Blizzard.j defining all possible standard functions (in their own scripting language). This would be like your TriggerHelper.js file.

Additionally, they have two files defining trigger events, conditions, events and functions for their trigger editor GUI: https://github.com/tdauth/dmdf/blob/master/archive/UI/TriggerData.txt and https://github.com/tdauth/dmdf/blob/master/archive/UI/TriggerStrings.txt

The first file defines all events, conditions, functions and types for variables (global variables can store some stuff). All functions have different categories leading to different icons you can see in the screenshot below. The second file defines the texts and descriptions for the trigger functions (you can see in the screenshot below in the open dialog window).

These two files are used to generate selection lists in their own trigger editor: cbfAR0K.jpg

This helped real noobs like me in the beginning when I did not know how to program stuff to create custom maps with some simple functions. It does also prevents basic errors since the functions are restricted to the predefined types. You can create folders and comments and add comments to the triggers etc. which helps you organizing complicated triggers.

When the map is saved it generates a map script from the triggers (in your case it would generate a JSON file of which the path is specified in the map XML file ).

It would be a lot work to create something like this but you could provide a simplified version by at least creating some basic GUI for a trigger editor which allows you to use some basic JavaScript functions. However, it really helped Warcraft III to get all those nice custom maps. For this game it would make it much easier to create custom scenarios for a campaign. Right now, I would have no idea which functions to use and without manually searching for examples I would not have known about how to use/create triggers.

I know some C++ and have never worked with wxWidgets (which you use for the Atlas UI). I think for now the list of java script functions would really be enough and one could figure out which functions are still missing. Aren't there any big campaign projects which use lots of custom triggers for events etc.?

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4 minutes ago, Barade said:

Sometimes I play only 1 vs 1 and  I still want to trade.

You'll just have to put up two markets; max distance for max profit.

You can also use ports as trading posts, which also allows you to put them up outside your own territory, thus maxing the distance. You might want to make sure you can protect your business. On Gualdalquivir River for example I do it frequently when the fords are secured.

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thx I will try this campaign. Hopefully, it will be added to the main game or at least to mod.io so I could add it there?

Another feature very useful for streaming the game on Twitch would be a window mode without borders. Programs like "Restream Chat" which must be in the foreground to see the Twitch chat rely on non-native fullscreen modes.

I have tried some mods during the last games now and they were really useful like the "two-gendered-citizens" and UI mods which showed the damage, defense and range stats directly in the selected units UI. Besides, I wish there will be a list of players with points, nation and teams which can be toggled at any time. This helps you to know how far behind you are during the game (like in AoE). The two gendered citizens could also be an ingame option when hosting the map. There is also something like "Feminization" and the end of the game in the stats. Does it mean how many villagers I had during the game since they are female by default?

I saw Theban Greeks and Maya mods and was wondering why the two new races are not part of the official game yet. Still alpha? The same could be asked for the language packages like Chinese etc. Are they still unfinished? And is the process of adding mods to mod.io rather complicated or why have some modders only a github repository and instructions but their mods are not listed on mod.io?

Some of the training unit tooltips do not really mention lots of stuff other than all the classes of units. For example, the tooltip of citizens (even the advanced one with right click) does not even mention why exactly you have to build them and what their benefits are. A small text like "Basic working and harvesting unit which constructs buildings and is weak in fights. Collects resources faster than warriors." or something like that would be enough. Some players don't want to read all stats in the beginning and compare the collection rates of soldiers with the ones of citizens.

I am not sure about the feature of training groups of units which then is faster than training the units separately. You have to wait for ALL units to be trained. For example, if I train like 50 warriors at once it will be much faster I think than training them separately. However, I have to wait for a very very long time until the 50 warriors are trained at once, so it makes more sense to build more barracks rather than training a whole army at once. I wonder what the thoughts behind this feature are and why it is not limited to like 10 or something. Who wants to wait like 2 minutes for the whole army to appear?

Thanks for the hint about trading with my own marketplaces. Do I get the resources for free they are carrying and is it distributed equally? Some had metal, some had stone etc.

I didn't know how to rotate the gate when creating it from the stone wall, so sometimes the gate was pointing into the wrong direction :( Maybe it was depending on the rotation of the first wall piece and I did not see in which direction it was pointing?

About heroes: Once I have chosen a hero and he dies, he does not respawn right? So I cannot switch my hero until he dies (since there is a limit to having one hero at all?). Maybe add something like switching a hero which can only be done every X minutes.

The fortress can only train heroes? It would be useful if it could train some regular units as well?

In the tutorial campaign: If you have already construct a marketplace, you have to construct one again when the goal comes up. Maybe you could check on every new goal if it has already been reached or make the unit unavailable before. I also have the feeling a tutorial campaign should be different missions for different goals like in AoE.

I played a long game with Romans now and was wondering if the formation with the shields does actually help against arrows or something? The tooltip doesn't mention anything. I was also wondering if there wasn't any unit looking like this: Roman_soldier_70_aC.jpg

 

Most infantry units looked like this:

hastatus.jpg

Is this the more accurate version or just an earlier version of the soldiers? I found the first model in the editor as "infantry_swordsman_c3" so are the models mixed randomly or is it not used for infantry during the game. Maybe I did not pay enough attention.

Besides I found gladiators and the amphitheater in the editor. Is this some campaign stuff only or can it be placed during the game? It would be fun to send Gladiators. It was possible in Praetorians, too and they even had special abilities like throwing a net on enemies.

Just some thoughts. I had much fun playing the Roman game and found out when you destroy the "town hall" of the AI rather fast, they lose their whole area. They try to protect it from being conquered but stood no chance against rams. They then lose the control of all buildings in the area except the ones they place units inside. So maybe if AI would build some wall around their city, it would help them but might also lead to weird bugs.

Edited by Barade
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1 hour ago, Barade said:

I am not sure about the feature of training groups of units which then is faster than training the units separately. You have to wait for ALL units to be trained. For example, if I train like 50 warriors at once it will be much faster I think than training them separately. However, I have to wait for a very very long time until the 50 warriors are trained at once, so it makes more sense to build more barracks rather than training a whole army at once. I wonder what the thoughts behind this feature are and why it is not limited to like 10 or something. Who wants to wait like 2 minutes for the whole army to appear?

 

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12 hours ago, Barade said:

There is also something like "Feminization" and the end of the game in the stats. Does it mean how many villagers I had during the game since they are female by default?

I believe it's workers/(workers+CS inf), where the workers are female in vanilla. Cav, mercs, champs and heroes don't count. You be the judge of how helpful you find that info.

 

12 hours ago, Barade said:

Thanks for the hint about trading with my own marketplaces. Do I get the resources for free they are carrying and is it distributed equally? Some had metal, some had stone etc.

The resources are free. (It's actually more the gain when you reach a trading point.) By default it's 25% each, you can adjust that under 'Barter & Trade' (the coins symbol); shift clicking on one res will take it to 100%. When trading with an ally a small part of the 'load' will go them and vice versa. You can see a distribution when selecting a market and hovering over its counterpart. (Although the numbers never add up, i.e. it shows '38+11' while the traders 'carry' 57.)

Edit: Or the numbers do add up and I just didn't get it:

0ad-marketgain.jpg.3a194c2fac759b06e200d98cc404e685.jpg

Edited by Gurken Khan
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On 29/10/2021 at 9:09 AM, Barade said:

- If I would create a scenario with camera movements and some custom triggers and would record it and put it in a small short movie (not a Let's Play!) and put that on YouTube, would it be allowed/legal? I guess everything is under the GPL, even the models and textures etc. right? Does my movie have to be Open Source then?!

Hey, this is a great idea. I would really like to see this type of movie, since it would bring a story from history into a modern presentation.

No, your movie does not have to be Open Source. It's explained by this answer in the FSF's frequently asked questions about the GPL. The answer assumes some knowledge of copyright, such as what "fair use" means. It also assumes that you know the license of each part of the game.

I encourage you to read about fair use here and here. The articles have information that is relevant to your movie idea.

The FSF answer mentions that you might need a license in order to use the music. The music of 0ad is licensed under Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 3.0 Unported instead of the GPL. So, if your use is not consistent with "fair use" then you would need to license your movie under CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported. Here is a list of the license for the art, music, maps, source code, etc. of 0 A.D. Notice that the source code is not always GPL.

0 A.D. offers high quality original art and audio (including voiceovers, music, ambient sounds, sound effects). Using significant amounts of this content would definitely subject your movie to being licensed under the applicable CC license. What's significant? For music, I've heard that anything more than 15 seconds is unlikely to be fair use. If you're ever in doubt, contact the author of the content and ask if your planned use is consistent with the license or fair use.

Free software and free content licenses (where free means freedom) are great things. You don't pay money and become a customer. Instead, you get a bunch of free content, and you are encouraged to reciprocate in the future so that everyone benefits. And, you can read the blueprints, modify the game engine, art or sounds, make derivative works such as movies, and it's completely legal, in fact encouraged, as long as you follow the license terms or limit your use to "fair use".

One idea for shortcuting the issue of the music license is to just mute the 0 A.D. in-game music when you record the movie footage. Then you can dub royalty-free music, Creative Commons Attribution only music, or other music that you have a license for, so that you aren't required to license your movie under CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported. Or just license it under CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported. It would be a good way to contribute to the community.

Edited by dave_k
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On 29/10/2021 at 9:09 AM, Barade said:

so if this game would allow it because of its licensing and it had a propery cinematic API to add at least some cinematic borders and remove selection circles and other ingame UI stuff, I could use that.

Alt+G is a toggle that disables the UI in 0 A.D., although it doesn't remove the selection circles. Maybe a game engine modification could help with this, unless there is a feature that removes even more of the UI. I would also recommend disabling the sound effect of a horn that plays whenever you're under attack.

Edited by dave_k
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