Suggesting rework of "Espionage"

[Lion.Kanzen]

8 minutes ago, fales said:

Sure, this solution would require more programming, but it could be quite realistic and useful because a large group of attackers would be almost surely seen but a small raid could go unnoticed

You mean with units controlled by you, That's what I want. But since I don't program or I decide that ...

[fales]

21 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

You mean with units controlled by you

I meant that it would require some work so that units entering the aforementioned area of partial knowledge would or would not be shown and that after some time the state could change. I have no idea how this is implemented and how much work would be required to make my idea work. I do not know what you mean by "units controlled by you" 

[Lion.Kanzen]

29 minutes ago, fales said:

I meant that it would require some work so that units entering the aforementioned area of partial knowledge would or would not be shown and that after some time the state could change. I have no idea how this is implemented and how much work would be required to make my idea work. I do not know what you mean by "units controlled by you" 

like spies in Empire Earth 2?

[fales]

5 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

like spies in Empire Earth 2?

I have no experience with this game, sorry.

Quote

The espionage could create an additional strip of vision around your territory with partial knowledge (something between knowing everything and nothing).

Let me illustrate my proposal in other words.

1. Right now the situation is like this: an enemy army is approaching you and the probability of you seeing the enemy army is at first 0 % (you can't see them far away from you) and then, suddenly, it jumps to 100 % (you can always see them) when the army steps out of the fog of war.
2. After paying for the espionage: the probability would also have a middle step (= at some places the fog of war would not be completely hiding everything). Hence, the probability to see the enemy is 0 % far away from your base, then in some region closer to you, it is (for example) 50 % (sometimes, you can see them and sometimes not) and as before when the enemy finally comes close enough to your base the probability is 100 %

[Palaiologos]

15 hours ago, fales said:

Revealing the whole map seems to much to me

Yea, on second thought it might probably be overkill, but at the same time a person couldn't possibly collect + act on the intel (if having whole map revealed for a specific duration).

15 hours ago, fales said:

The espionage could create an additional strip of vision around your territory with partial knowledge

15 hours ago, fales said:

imagine you only have CC and it has a vision range of 10 meters around it where you know about everything what is happening there

Assume your meaning an enemy cc and not your own. No reason for an additional strip around ones own territory. What outposts are (were*) used for.

15 hours ago, fales said:

You could even choose how much to pay for the espionage and bigger investment could result in wider strip of vision

Good idea. What is the matter with espionage levels for each phase though? Slight pay increment for p1,p2,p3. Like Dakara says "just guess/save resources". Preferable to briefly observe enemies movements/building locations/resource counts than expanded vision of ones own territory. Not how espionage works. :)       

[alre]

There are various ways one could implement espionage:

• special units that are invisible to other players, exept for some units or buildings who can see them (outpost are obvious candidates, as other spies, but maybe also heroes, other towers, etc.) this is how EE2 did it
• special units that are not invisible to other players, but could get confused with their own units, other players should personally spot them, and in the very moment they try to give them any order, their true nature is revealed, and they are attacked by other units.
• bribing units to get access to their sight. for what I know, this is how 0AD does it, isn't it? I never use it.
• having a tech that temporaryly makes you see anything in any point in the map you decide. This approach is avaiable in Imperium.
• having a tech that only takes out fog of war in that region of the map. Maybe when the tech is being started to research, the situation in that region is recorded, and when the tech is finished the information you get is already old as much as the time needed to research.

All these options have one thing in common, which is they are used to get intel on the enemy base and defenses. The same thing can almost always be achieved with a simple scout, which makes espionage something always renounciable, more so if you think that vision and intel is not something essencial either. This much to say that any of these options, and surely many others, could be given to specific civs, with relations to their history and lore I guess. Giving different civs different means to do the same thing is an example of good asymmetrical design.

Edited May 15, 2021 by alre