jorellaf Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) On 26/08/2018 at 1:44 PM, Genava55 said: It took me a while, but I did a review of the possible labeling for the buildings. After a lot of hesitation and reading about which name is the best and personal reconstruction (I did my best) here my proposition: Gauls buildings: Building Actual name New name House Annedd Tegia Corral Cavalidos Cagion Farm Varmo Olca Civic-center Caer Lissos Barracks Gwersyllty Coriosedlon Rotary Mill Melonas Brauon Storehouse Ystordy Capanon Farmstead Ffermdy Buta Blacksmith Amoridas Gobanion Market Marchnaty Magos Fortress Dun Dunon Tower Tyrau Uxelon Wall Gwarchglawdd Rate Gate Duro Duoricos Temple Addoldy Nemeton Port Crannoc Counos New buildings Feast-center Celicnon Hemicycle Remogantion Monument Mediolanon Bretons buildings: Building Actual name New name House Annedd Tegia Corral Cavalidos Cagion Farm Varmo Olca Civic-center Caer Tigernotreba Barracks Gwersyllty Coriosessa Rotary Mill Melonas Brauon Storehouse Ystordy Capanon Farmstead Ffermdy Buta Blacksmith Amoridas Gobanion Market Marchnaty Magos Fortress Dun Dunon Tower Tyrau Uxelon Wall Gwarchglawdd Rate Gate Duro Duoricos Temple Addoldy Nemeton Port Crannoc Counos New buildings Irish-royal site Comardrigantion Monument Cantalon Back from my hiatus. I will keep coming back to this post to add more info, or maybe add more words later. I will also add the comments from the post where this list was before (here). I will be using Matasović (2009), Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Celtic, and to a lesser extent, Xavier Delamarre (2003), Dictionnaire de la langue gauloise: Une approche linguistique du vieux-celtique continental, Dottin (1920), La langue gauloise: grammaire, textes et glossaire, as well as the documents for Gallo-Brittonic by Deiniol Jones, the old University of Wales Celtic Lexicon documents, and a bit of Wiktionary and other sources if needed. Deinol Jones follows Gallo-Brittonic, rather than P/Q- or Insular/Continental Celtic division, which is useful since both factions would belong to the same overall dialect continuum, meaning the same names could be plausibly used for either, unless we want very specific regionalism. Spelling can be altered at will (c=k, i=y=i, u=w=u, v=w, no long vowels, etc.). House Current: Tegia Suggestion: : Tegos [pl. Tegesā] /ˈte.gos/ - house : Butā [pl. Butās] /ʽbu.taː/ - dwelling/hut : Wastu(s) [pl. Wastow(ā/es)] /ʽwas.tu(s)/ - dwelling : or maybe Tigos [pl. Tigesā] /ˈti.gos/ Could use both, Tegos for Gauls, Tigos for Britons. Justification: Matasović, Delamarre, and the UoWales lexicon give the PCelt. (Proto-Celtic) word *tegos- (house) with -s stem, so nom.sg. *tegos, and would give either GallBrit. (Gallo-Brittonic) *tegos- or *tigos-, with e>i, (see OW (Old Welsh) tig, making GallBritt. g>∅, difficult to justify, especially as Delamarre mentions it is only late Gaulish (p. 97)), though with the attested Lat. (Latin) attegia-hut in Juvenal, from where the previously suggested tegia comes from, the e>i might be overzealous. The Jones lexicon gives tegos as well. Matasović gives *ad-teg-yā as derivation, which would ultimately come from the same *tegos-. Matasović is unsure about *tīg-s, so perhaps Tegos is the better choice, or we use the two different ablauts for the two different factions. However, Delamarre shows possible attestations with *tigos-, such as Tigorix and Tiotiginus (thanks to @Genava55 for the suggestion). Another option is Butā (dwelling, hut), present in Matasović and Delamarre (as PCelt. and Gaul. *butā), but not Dottin. One final option is using Matasović's PCelt. *wastu- (dwelling), though it is not present in Delemarre or Dottin. Matasović suggests MW gwas (dwelling) as a descendant, with cognates in Skt. (Sanskrit) vā́stu- (site of a house) and Gr. (Greek) (w)ásty (town). Assuming fem. from the MW, though the Skt. and Gr. (and also the PIE) are neut., so it could be either fem. Wastus (pl. Wastowes), or neut. Wastu (pl. Wastowā). Perhaps the neut. is more likely. Comments: @Genava55 is happy with Tegos, and helped with suggestions. Corral Current: Cagion Suggestion: unchanged (Cagio(n/s) [pl. Cagi(ā/oi)] /ˈka.gjo(n/s)/ - pen or enclosure) : or maybe Crāwos [pl. Crāwoi] /ˈkraː.wos/ - stable or enclosure : or maybe Cagro(n/s) [pl. Cagr(ā/oi)] /ˈka.gro(n/s)/ - enclosure or fort Justification: Matasović gives PCelt. *kagyo- (pen, enclosure), which would give GallBritt. *cagio-, or *caio-. Delamarre gives *cagio- for Brittonic and Goedelic. Attested as caio (wine cellar, quay) as well for Gaulish, from the Vienna/Endlicher's Glossary. The UoW lexicon gives nom.sg. cagion (field, pen, fence) as a neut., but unsure why, as all the derived terms even in OBret. (Old Breton) are masculine. Everything from OBret. to MoBret. (Modern Breton) already drops the g as well (but this process is, again, sourced from Wikipedia only). However, from Matasović, the word is attested as cagiíon (either neut.nom.sg. or masc.acc.sg.) in Gaul. (Gaulish), with no g dropping. Another alternative in Matasović is PCelt. *krāfo- (stable, enclosure), thus GallBritt. *crāwo- (Jones lexicon crāwos, masc.), and with OIr. (Old Irish) already as masculine, I assume nom.sg.masc. crāwos. However, Delamarre does not give this root, and Dottin gives Gaul. craff 'farm' as part of *crappao-. Another possibility, using Matasović *kagro- ('enclosure', 'fort'), though this is only found there and in the UoW, which gives the gender as neut.; though, again, I am not sure why, as it could be both. The meaning of 'fort' might present some need for reconsideration, but the possibility is still there. Comments: I prefer Cagio(n/s). Not sure about the rest. Farm Current: Olca Suggestion: unchanged (Olcā [pl. Olcās] /ˈol.kaː/) Justification: Matasović gives PCelt *folkā- (arable land), found also on the UoWales docs, which gives GallBritt. *olcā- (nom.sg. olcā, as in the Jones lexicon), with initial f/φ dropping. Attested in Gregory of Tours as Latin olca, confirmed by Dottin and Delamarre, Matasović suggesting from Gaul. *olca. Comments: None. Civic Centre Current: Lissos (Gauls), Tigernotreba (Britons) Suggestion: : Wentācridion [pl. Wentācridiā] /ʽwen.taː.kri.djon/ - town's heart : or Towtācridion [pl. Towtācridiā] /ʽtow.taː.kri.djon/ - tribe's heart : or with -sedlo(s/n)/-sedl(os/ā) instead of -cridios (Wentāsedlo(s/n) /ʽwen.taː.sed.lo(s/n)/, Towtāsedlo(s/n) /ʽtow.taː.sed.lo(s/n)/) - seat instead of heart : or Cori(o)- instead of Wentā (Cori(o)cridion /ʽko.r(i/jo).kri.djon/, or Cori(o)sedlo(s/n) /ʽko.r(i/jo).sed.lo(s/n)/) - troop/tribe instead of town Later Gaul. has neut.nom.pl. -ī instead of ā, affecting the plural of e.g. Wentācridion (Wentācridī), Many more options available, since it's a made-up compound. For Britons specifically: : Tigern(i/o)sedlo(s/n) [pl. Tigern(i/o)sedl(oi/ā)] /ʽti.ger.n(i/o).sed.lo(s/n)/ - the lord's/master's seat : or Rīgosedlo(s/n) [pl. Rīgosedl(oi/ā)] /ʽriː.go.sed.lon/ - the king's seat : or Tigern(i/o)tegos /ʽti.ger.n(i/o).te.gos/ - the lord's/master's house : or Rīgotegos /ʽriː.go.te.gos/ - the king's house Maybe also Butā and Wastu(s) instead of Tegos. Tegos>Tigos also possible. Wentā may be particular to Brittonic too, so perhaps those only apply here. We could also use two words in genitive apposition instead (Cridion Wentās, Sedlo(s/n) Towtās, Cridion Corī etc.). Justification: Delamarre gives *lissos (court, palace), with OIr. les (yard), MIr. (Modern Irish) and MSG (Modern Scottish Gaelic) lios, MW llys, MoCor. (Modern Cornish) lys, and MoBret. lez. Modern meanings in Goidelic languages are invariably 'court(-yard)', rather than 'palace', and the possible Greek cognate given by Delamarre means 'flat' or 'broad' (πλατύς), though it seems Brittonic languages do invariably keep the idea of 'court' (e.g. of law; thanks to @Genava55 for pointing this out). I am still suspicious of the PCelt. lemma, since the change from i>e does not seem plausible from my admittedly limited knowledge of Celtic, and instead *lesso- seems more plausible, with PCelt. less- > llys- in MW, and then the rest maintaning the original e, but I could be wrong. The lemma is only attested in Delamarre and Dottin. I like Tīgernotreba, but since not all Gauls had a singular ruler, and both Matasović and Dottin give *treba- as 'settlement' or a variant thereof (though UoWales gives 'home', and Jones gives both settlement and home), I propose a different compound, either 'heart of the town' or 'heart of the people/tribe', or with 'seat' instead of 'heart'. This is very speculative, many alternatives could be thought up, involving all these words or many more. I will justify Wentācridion primarily. Tīgerno- (lord/master), however could still be interesting for the Brittonic tribes. Matasović gives PCelt. *kridyo- (heart), *wentā- (place, town), and *towtā- (people, tribe), as well as *sedlo- (seat). Dottin only confirms *sedlo- and *towtā-, with Delamarre and the UoWales confirming those. Delamarre also confirms *kridyo-, but not directly *wentā-, which is common in Brittonic placenames. UoW confirms *wentā-, but also adds a meaning of 'marketplace', not shared with anyone else, though Delamarre suggests *wenet- to mean 'merchants' or 'allies' (pl??). This gives GallBritt. *cridio-, *towtā-, *wentā-, and either *sedlo- or *sidlo-, though for *sedlo-, caneco-sedlon is attested in Gaul., meaning likely no e>i and implies a neuter noun, though Delamarre also suggests that the attestation is an sg.acc. of *sedlos, so not all that clear! Jones gives cridyon (centre!!?), toutā (tribe), wentā (place, marketplace), and sedlo(n/s) (seat), all nom.sg. Possession is done as apposition in modern Celtic languages, and it seems also in GallBritt.; i.e. son [nom.] (of) John's [gen.], but in this case, I suggest we instead look for compound words, which appear to be usually done instead by merging the two stems as sg.gen+sg.nom, losing the final coda for all but the last word. For 'heart of the town', this would give Wentācridion, from nom.sg. cridion (assuming the OIr. and PIE (Proto-Indo-European) neuter is correct) and gen.sg. wentās. Similar pattern for 'heart of the people', as Towtācridion. Using 'seat' instead of 'heart' would be simply replacing cridion with sedlo(s/n), so Wentāsedlo(s/n). Since Matasović gives PCelt. *koryo- for both troop and tribe (though Delamarre, Dottin, Jones, and UoWales give only 'army'), giving GallBritt. *corio-, which you could argue for using it in place of *wentā-, with corio(s/n) (or pl. cori(oi/a)), another unknown gender word. MW uses canolfan for 'civic centre', canol-centre and man-place; centre-place, whilst Breton and Cornish have kres and krez ('centre'), which Matasović and Delamarre (and presumably also Jones) suggest comes from *kridyo-. All sources attest *tīgerno-, suggesting lord, or master. This would be applicable only to the Britons, since Gauls were not exclusively monarchic. Assumed N.masc. from more modern words. Unsure whether to use Tigerni- as the coda-less sg.masc.gen. o-stem, or Tigerno-, as the nicer looking (but possibly incorrect) prefix. Same case for Cori-/Corio-. Matasović gives *rīg- as the root of the very famous -rix ('king', e.g. Vercingetorix). Velar stem nom.sg. rīgs>rīx. Dottin does not give a root. Delamarre does not give a very clear one, but suggests PIE *rēĝs-, but compounds starting with (presumably gen.sg.) Rigo- are attested, so it seems like a velar stem, rather than an s-stem. The UoWales documents agree with Matasović. Comments: @Genava55 thankfully provided info for *lissos. No preference given from myself. @Genava55 liked the previous version of Towtācridion, not sure if he will like the updated one. Barracks Current: Coriosedlon (Gauls), Coriosessa (Britons) Suggestion: : Corio(n)tegos [pl. Corio(n)tegasā] /ʽko.r(i/jo).te.gos/ -troop('s/s')-house : or unchanged (Corio(n)sedlo(s/n) [pl. Corio(n)sedl(oi/a)] /ʽko.r(i/jo).sed.lo(s/n)/ - troop('s/s')-seat) : or with Cingeto(s/n)- instead of Corio- (Cingeto(s/n)tegos /ʽkɪn.ge.to(s/n).te.gos/, Cingeto(s/n)sedlo(s/n) /ʽkɪn.ge.to(s/n).sed.lo(s/n)/) - warrior(s)'s instead of troop : or with Slowg(i/on)- instead of Corio- (Slowg(i/on)tegos /ʽslow.g(i/on).te.gos/, Slowg(i/on)sedlo(s/n) /ʽslow.g(i/on).sed.lo(s/n)/) - troop(s)/arm(y/ies') instead of troops : or with with Budīnā(s/non)- isntead of Corio- (Budīnā(s/non)tegos /ʽbu.diː.naː(s/.non).te.gos/, Budīnā(s/non)sedlo(s/n) /ʽbu.diː.naː(s/.non).sed.lo(s/n)/) - troop(s)/host(s) instead of troops' We could also use Butā or Wastu(s) instead of Tegos (troops'-hut or troops'-dwelling). We could also use two words in genitive apposition instead (Tegos Corion, Sedlo(s/n) Cingeton, Tegos Budinās, etc.). We could also maybe use a compound in nominative (troop-house instead of troops'-house or house of troops; e.g. Coriotegos or Cingetobutā). Justification: Again, many different compunds imaginable, none secure. I like Coriosedlon, though I'm not sure the way barracks exist in the game is that exact to a praesidium, or 'seat of the warriors'. I propose instead 'warrior-house' or ' warriors' house', so Coriotegos from GallBritt. *tegos- and *corio- (see above), with nom.sg. tegos, and either gen.sg. Cori(o)- or gen.pl. Corio-. Same issue as Tigerno- above, where the sg.gen. is Cori, but keeping the o looks nicer, and is closer to the stem. This applies also to Cingeto- and Slowgo-. And instead of Tegos (house), we could use Butā (hut/dwelling) as well. Matasović gives *kenget- for 'warrior', Dottin gives cinget- (I guess not a root, but a prefix?), whilst Delamarre gives *cingets, and the UoWales docs are unsure about *kenget-. Declension is not very important, since we have Ver-cingeto-rix, though the gen.pl of an s-stem is -eson, so cingeson, not cingeton (for a dental stem), the latter of which might be more plausible? All sources attest *slowgo- or some variation in spelling, meaning 'army' or 'troop', giving either gen.sg slowgi (for army), or gen.pl slowgon (for troops). All sources besides Dottin give *budīnā- for 'troop' or 'host', though Delamarre suggests it could have originally meant 'border-guard-force', and UoWales is unsure about it. For singular, the stem is the same since gen.sg. is -ās, but for gen.pl it becomes a bit difficult, since it could either be -ānon or -ān, and could therefore make the compounding root as Budīnāno-, instead of Budīnā-. MW uses gwersyllty, which means gwersyll-camp tŷ-house; camphouse, as well as barics, from the English. MIr. also uses a calque of English barracks, and MSG uses taigh-feachd, 'army-house(?)'. MoBret. uses a calque of French caserne, and MoCor. uses souderji, souder-soldier ji-house; soldier-house. All suggestions could be made into a nominative compound (soldier-house vs. soldier's house vs. house of soldiers), so many of the -i-/-o- issues for the end of the first part become mostly irrelevant. Same thing with standard two-word genitive appositions. Comments: Plenty of converstaion with @Genava55. He disagrees with 'house of-' compounds, for being a very English (presumably also Germanic) formation, though I slightly disagree on pragmatic grounds from the look of the building in-game, however, the terms I thought could attest for such constructions in Celtic ended up being problematic for a few reasons. @Genava55 would be ok with troop-house, which I agree with. I am personally not all that keen on using 'seat', but there is little to choose from. Stables Current: Eposton Suggestion: Crāwos [pl. Crāwoi] /ˈkraː.wos/ - stable or enclosure : or maybe Catumarc(i/o/on)cagio(n/s) [pl. Catumarcoagi(ā/oi)] /ˈka.tu.mar.ko.ka.gjo(n/s)/ - warhorse('s/s') pen or enclosure) : or maybe Catumarc(i/o/on)cagro(n/s) [pl. Catumarc(i/o/on)cagr(ā/oi)] /ˈka.tu.mar.ko.ka.gro(n/s)/ - warhorse('s/s') enclosure or fort Or Marcos '(war-)horse' instead of Catumarcos Or Epos 'horse' Or Woredos 'horse/courser' Or maybe with Tegos 'house', or Togyā 'roof/covering/shelter', or maybe Tectos ('roof', by comparison to Lat. tectum) Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Storehouse Current: Capanon Suggestion: : Dastis [pl. Dastīs] /ʽdas.tis/ - heap or pile : Crāwos [pl. Crāwoi] /ʽkraː.wos/ - enclosure : or maybe Cantiācridion(?) [pl. Cantiācridiā] /ʽkan.tjaː.kri.djon/ - collection/assembly centre? : or maybe Cantiādastis(?) [pl. Cantiādastīs] /ʽkan.tjaː.das.tis/ - collection/assembly pile? Justification: This one is pretty hard. No known equivalents in ancient Celtic languages. Perhaps the closest could be using Matasović and UoW *dasti- (heap, pile), which would give GallBritt. nom.sg. Dastis. This lemma is not present in Delamarre or Dottin, however. Matasović provides descendants, but I find slightly different spelling, with MW tas (stack), not das, and MIr. dais (heap, stack), not daiss. Matasović also states that Condate could be derived from Gaul. *kom-dati- ('confluence'). Matasović gives PCelt. *krāfo- (stable, enclosure, with MW creu-shed), thus GallBritt. *crāwo- (Jones lexicon crāwos, masc.), and with OIr. already as masculine, I assume nom.sg.masc. crāwos. However, Delamarre does not give this root, and Dottin gives Gaulish craff 'farm' as part of *crappao-. A very remote alternative is using Matasović PCelt. *kanti (a preposition meaning 'together with'), and Matasović and Delamarre Gaul. *canti- (together) to mean 'collection' (Delamarre suggests 'assembly'), and pair it with *corion-centre to make 'collection centre'. Attested as Cantiorix, and OIr. céite-assembly (also 'hill', and 'mount' though, according to the Ceannfhocal Sean-Ghaeilge). Dottin mentions *cantio- in terms of Ir. caint-'language' instead. This could also be paired with Dastis instead of Cridion, to form 'assembly/collection pile' (Cantiādastis). The previously suggested Capanon may come from Dottin's *capanna, which is from Isidore (Orig., 15.15.6), and gives a derivation from Gaul. caban-cabin, though Dottin also admits the word is very unlikely to come from Celtic. Probably not a good option. Not present in either Matasović or Delamarre. Comments: I prefer Dastis for simplicity, and I am concerned with the semantics of Crāwos. Farmstead Current: Buta Suggestion: : Grānobutā [pl. Grānobutās] /ʽgraː.no.bu.taːs/ - grain-hut : Itu(s)butā [pl. Itu(s)butā] /ʽi.tu(s).bu.taːs/ - food-hut : or possibly Mēcobutā [pl. Mēcobutās] /ʽmeː.ko.bu.taː/ - bushel-hut Or with Tegos instead of Butā. We could also use two words in genitive apposition instead (Grānos Butās, Itus Tegesos, etc.). Justification: From Matasović *grāno- (grain), only present there. Has apparent descendants in all modern Celtic languages, though it could have been a loan from Lat. grānum. Another option is Matasović PCelt. *fitu-; Delamarre GallBritt *Itu- (food), though I am not a fan of how 'food hut' sounds. Not present in Dottin. Delamarre also gives the meaning 'cereals' based on OIr. ith-grain, whilst Matasović also provides MBret. ed-grain, but does not add that meaning. One final, quite obscure option is to use Matasović's PCelt. *mēko- (sack or bushel of grain), but this stem is not present in anywhere else. The derivation is from OIr. miach-bushel, and from PIE *meyǵʰ-barley/grain The previously suggested Butā (hut/dwelling; defined above) I thought was too simple to mean 'farmstead', so I coupled it with other words. Comments: None. Blacksmith Current: Gobanion Suggestion: : Gobannos [pl. Gobannoi] /ʽgo.bæn.noi̯/ - (black)smith : Gobanū [pl. Gobanones] /ʽgo.bæ.nuː/ - (black)smith Or maybe combine with Tegos/Butā/Wastu(s) to make 'house of the smith' (e.g. Gobantegos or Gobanni Wastu(s)) Justification: From Matasović PCelt. *goban-, contra Delamarre GallBritt. *goben-, as there is no clear way how *goban->*goben- works, all attestations in Gaul. are Goban-, and Gall.Britt already closes the a before the nasal, which can lead to OIr. gobae (ae = /e/ or /ɘ/). This would be a masc. n-stem, giving GallBritt. Gobanū. However UoW gives Gobannos from a masc. *gobanno- root, which could also be another possibility. For both cases, OIr is already masculine, so I am inclined to agree with the putative masc. declension for the root. Thurneysen (1940) apparently also gives a -nn-stem for the OIr gobae n-stem (gen. gobann) that acorrding to Wiktionary goes unexplained in Matasović. Dottin gives *gobann (n-stem noun?), from MW gofaint-smiths. For the previous suggestion by @Genava55 of Gobanion (this should have probably been Gobiannon) from Gobannium, I would prefer using a non-proper noun, especially not one filtered through Latin, however the name in Latin including a geminate -nn- is more circumstantial evidence for *gobanno-. The current meaning of the suggested words is as 'smith' (person), but I assume that the meaning can be transferred to 'the smith's (place)'. We could also combine them with the dwelling/house words to make 'house of the smith' (e.g. Gobanowus Tegos) or 'smith's hut' (e.g. Gobanūbutā), though I am not very in favour of this. Comments: Different derivations cause issues. I may be more inclined for Gobannos, but I am not sure. Market Current: Magos Suggestion: Unsure : perhaps unchanged (Magos [pl. Magoi] /ʽma.gos/ - 'market') : or Rātos [pl. Rātoi] /ʽraː.tos/ - 'selling' : or maybe Wentā [pl. Wentās] - 'place', or 'marketplace'(?) : or maybe Prītos [pl. Prītoi] - 'buying' : or any word meaning 'assembly' or 'assembly place'. Justification: From Delamarre *magos ('field', and later 'market'), also in Dottin and Matasović, but only as 'field', which is the same for every modern Celtic language. No explanation for the semantc shift, but it might be perhaps imagined to be similar to Gr. agora-market from 'gathering place'. There is no explanation, however. An alternative would be a calque of Lat. mercatus-market as the past participle (or action noun suffix -tus) of mercor-trade/sell. We would follow the Matasović and UoW verb *ri-na- (sell), which according to UoW has a part participle of Rātos. Another similar option is to go for the antonym: PCelt. *kʷri-na-> GallBritt. *prina (buy), which would give Prītos according to the UoW. I thought about doing something like 'buying centre', but that seems convoluted and unrealistic for such a common word. If we try to calque Gr. we could use any word for assembly, though we would then have to assume that the semantic link between 'assembly' or 'gathering' is valid in Celtic languages. All modern Celtic languages use terms derived from Lat. mercatus, but there is a MoBret. term (koc'hu(i)) that apparently means 'market' (though this seems to not be the case), from MiBret. (Middle Breton) cochuy, found in the Lagadeuc Catholicon meaning a 'poludomus' in Lat. and French co(c)hue (rabble, hall, crowd), which could suggest something related to 'assembly', but it is late, and the 'market' meaning could be much after GallBrit., if it even is accurate. ScotGael. uses fèill, which has one meaning of 'market', but comes from Lat. vigilia, and is mostly associated with 'feast'. Finally, UoW suggests *wentā- has a meaning of 'marketplace', along with 'place' or 'town'. Delamarre also suggests GallBritt. *wenet- to mean 'merchants' or 'allies' (pl.??), so perhaps Wentā could also be a possibility. Comments: Undecided. I like the calque of Lat., but it is problematic, though the semantic issues of Magos are also an issue. Fortress Current: Dunon Suggestion: unchanged (Dūnon [pl. Dūnā] /ʽduː.naː/) : another option is using Cagro(n/s) [pl. Cagr(ā/oi)] /ʽka.gr(aː/oi)/ - fort Justification: Simplest solution is use *duno-, found in all sources as 'fortification' (except Dottin, who only gives 'mound', though this meaning is also in Delamarre, and suggested as plausible by Matasović). OIr. derived term is already neut., and with the attested placenames of -dunum, providing solid evidence for neut. The other option is to use Cagro(n/s) ('fort' or 'enclosure'), but it seems Dunon might be more common. Comments: None. Lookout Current: Antosolicon Suggestion: : Saxtos : or Antosaxtos : or Sentusaxtos : or with -(ad)pistos instead of -saxtos : or Oro- instead of Anto- Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Sentry & Stone Tower Current: Uxelon Suggestion: : Turris : or Līwancs Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Palisade Current: N.A Suggestion: : Kletā : or Wregis : or Corets Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Wall Current: Rate Suggestion: : Wregis : or Corets Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Wall Turret Current: Uxelon Suggestion: : Wregēturris : or Coretoturris : or Wregēs Turris : or Coretos Turris : or with Līwancs instead of Turris Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Palisade & Stone Gate Current: Duoricos Suggestion: : Cletādwār & Alesodwār : or Cletādwār & Liccādwār Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Crannog Current: Cranogion Suggestion: : Enistī Dunon Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Temple Current: Nemeton Suggestion: unchanged (Nemeton) Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Siege Workshop Current: Miletucerdon Suggestion: : Cerdātīs Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Wonder Current: Celicnon (Gauls), Emain Macha (Britons) Suggestion: TBA Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Remogantion Current: Remogantion Suggestion: TBA Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Navan Fort Current: N/A Suggestion: TBA Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Port Current: Counos Suggestion: : Cawno : or Ritus Justification: TBA Comments: TBA Edited September 6 by jorellaf Added Fortress 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 @Genava55 a call for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, jorellaf said: Delamarre gives *lissos (court, palace), with OIr. les (yard), MIr. (Modern Irish) and MSG (Modern Scottish Gaelic) lios, MW llys, MoCor. (Modern Cornish) lys, and MoBret. lez. Modern meanings are invariably 'court(-yard)', rather than 'palace', and the possible Greek cognate given by Delamarre means 'flat' or 'broad' (πλατύς). Actually it makes sense in Celtic culture that a flat yard/court is a place of authority or justice. It seems to be the way it worked for assembly as well. In the case of modern Breton, it seems that the word lez is synonym to court and lord house or palace. Wikitionary gave two examples from literature: Disprijet o deus lez ar roue, hag en em gavet int en lez an nenv. + En em gavet dirak lez ar roue Grallon, hemañ, o klevout an trouz a oa, a ya ivez da sellout, e vercʼh Ahez en e gichen. Another Breton dictionary give the same meaning: https://geriafurch.bzh/fr?q=lez&d=brfr Welsh: https://glosbe.com/cy/en/llys https://welsh-dictionary.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html 14 hours ago, jorellaf said: These letter options are getting ridiculous. You can make it simpler and choose one if you prefer. Thank you for opening the thread, this is really useful. I will not oppose your choices, this is fine for me to letting you the hand on the matter. I can only participate to share point of view and information, and debate a bit. But you are in a better position for choosing. If it is possible to have different names for the Britons and Gauls it would be great but only if it is not a pain in the... Edited March 9, 2021 by Genava55 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player of 0AD Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 Those funny names and the descriptions should be swapped. People don't want to read first that's it a "Talmoris", they need to know that it's a "Slinger" because this is necessary and the "Talmoris" is unnecessary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said: Those funny names and the descriptions should be swapped. People don't want to read first that's it a "Talmoris", they need to know that it's a "Slinger" because this is necessary and the "Talmoris" is unnecessary. I want. PD: new nickname? Edited March 9, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Player of 0AD said: Those funny names and the descriptions should be swapped. People don't want to read first that's it a "Talmoris", they need to know that it's a "Slinger" because this is necessary and the "Talmoris" is unnecessary. I think it should be nice to have an option for swapping them. Some people prefer ancient names, other prefer modern names. This is a dividing topic. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorellaf Posted March 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Genava55 said: Thank you for opening the thread, this is really useful. I will not oppose your choices, this is fine for me to letting you the hand on the matter. I can only participate to share point of view and information, and debate a bit. But you are in a better position for choosing. If it is possible to have different names for the Britons and Gauls it would be great but only if it is not a pain in the... I need to incorporate the suggestions from the previous thread too! I've been quite busy, so I just copy-pasted stuff. I will add your previous comments to the different suggestions, and modify them accordingly, just need to find and make some time. Edited March 9, 2021 by jorellaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, jorellaf said: I need to incorporate the suggestions from the previous thread too! I've been quite busy, so I just copy-pasted stuff. I will add your previous comments to the different suggestions too, just need to find and make some time. Don't worry, there is no urgency. Thx again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorellaf Posted March 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) Just don't want to make it seem like I'm ignoring our discussion or your comments. I'll will look into what you said on Lissos soon. Edited March 9, 2021 by jorellaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player of 0AD Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 21 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: I want. PD: new nickname? "PD"? What do you want to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorellaf Posted March 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 13 hours ago, Player of 0AD said: "PD"? What do you want to say? Think that means postdata, or P.S. in English. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorellaf Posted March 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) Ok, updated down to where we left off, and even added new stuff. I will keep adding stuff in the coming days. Edited March 13, 2021 by jorellaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) About Gobanion, I have chosen it because of Gobannium, the ancient name of Abergavenny. Although, it could be related to a 'smith divinity (Gofannon in Welsh, the equivalent of Vulcan) which makes the thing complicated. Uxelon is a personal reconstruction but it is really made-up. I simply used the root Uxel-/Uxello- we see in place-names like Uxellodunum. In modern languages, it gives uchel in Welsh, uasal in Irish and uhel in Breton. The problem in this case is that the word tower in modern Celtic languages are all borrowed from Latin (turris), even through English (tower comes from turris). Antosolicon is also a made-up reconstruction with -soli-/-suli- related to the sight and the eyes. It uses also the root anto- which is plausibly related to a kind of limit, although it could be both a physical or a metaphysical limit so... maybe a better candidate should be randa or randon as we find it in Camminoranda and Equoranda, plausibly at the territorial limits of civitates. Eposton for the stable, with an inspiration from Celtiberian boustom which is basically the roof of the cows/oxen. Miletucerdon is a made-up reconstruction with Miletu- for destruction and Cerdon for artisan/craftsman. Celicnon is problematic, but it is a proposal from Delamarre and Savignac: https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/celicnon I choose Celicnon for the wonder because it is based on the sanctuary of Corent which was a place of gathering and feasting and not only a religious place. Since Delamarre and Savignac proposed it is a feasting-place, I took the opportunity even if it is a contested hypothesis. Remogantion is for a unique building based on a theatron-like building found in Corent as well. It is interpreted as an assembly or a senate since Caesar mentioned those in his account. Although it should be maybe Remocantion, from Remo- (first, prince) and -cantion from the tribe Cantiacii. Cantio- has similarities with Old Irish céite, a word for an assembly. I don't know why I wrote gantion instead of cantion. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Celtic/kantyos Cranogion is an uninspired made-up word from Cranog because I didn't find anything that would be the equivalent in Gaulish. Obviously it cames from Irish crann, but then it would be prenn in other P-Celtic languages. The problem is that the Crannog reference comes from Ireland and Scotland which falls in a difficult topic from a linguistic view of the ancient times (pre-roman Iron Age). For the wonder called Emain Macha, I have nothing to do with this name. I hope it helps. Final edit: words for the wall and the palissade are missing. The wall should be rate (ráth, ráith in Irish) but the palissade... Edited March 14, 2021 by Genava55 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 For the units: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) I found really weird the Celtic wall being called "Taux" in my 0AD, which is set in French... until I understood that the wall is actually called "Rate" in English but somehow, an automatic translation got the Celtic name for the wall as an English word... rate like in a measure, for a value or for a varying quantity. Which is "taux" en français. Edited March 18, 2021 by Genava55 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorellaf Posted June 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 Back from some crazy last 3 months of work. Added Farmstead and Storehouse. Will keep adding more a bit slowly, since schedules are clearing up a bit for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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