===[COMMITTED]=== Iberian Unit Textures

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I liked this unit texture.

 

[wackyserious]

25 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I liked this unit texture.

 

Let me see if I can recreate the cardiopylax later

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Let me see if I can recreate the cardiopylax later

It was a nice texture. The yellowish underpadding could have been player color and would have worked well. 

[wackyserious]

55 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

It was a nice texture. The yellowish underpadding could have been player color and would have worked well. 

Did I get it, or was it the pteruges that you wanted to be player color?

[wackyserious]

Nice, we get audience interaction and suggestions over at Twitter, this is to be noted. He mentioned that the round helmet on the Iberian swordsman should instead be made of leather since no archaeological evidence supports that it is made of a metal material.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

26 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Did I get it, or was it the pteruges that you wanted to be player color?

Yep, exactly what I meant.

[wackyserious]

https://mindhost.tumblr.com/post/125000816967/celtiberian-warriors

[TKogumelos]

Those are drawings by Ángel García Pinto and Angus Mcbride.

The problem with these illustrators is that they mixed elements from different cultures and times. 

[TKogumelos]

In this thread, as John-of1999, I've posted some images about the different tribes of Iberia.

 https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/research-iberians.247627/page-3

 

[wackyserious]

@TKogumelos is this clothing pattern exclusive to the Balearics? Or did Iberians also used stripe clothing patterns?

Could you also check if these clothing details and patterns are accurate for Iberian culture, since these are the current textures that we use for the Iberians

1.) The typical type we see in depictions

2.) Meander patterns

3.) Dyed short and long sleeved tunics

[wackyserious]

Also changed the footwear from laced boots into slip on boots and footwear with animal footwraps around it.

[wackyserious]

@TKogumelos

As for the helmets, I think if we can reduce the shine/spec for helmet I it looks like leather, maybe I can recolor it also and create lighter leather tones from it.

helmet I, helmet III, helmet IV and helmet V on the other hand are ones that are depicted as metal objects, what are your suggestions? Are they also supposed to be made out of organic material such as leather?

[wackyserious]

18 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Also changed the footwear from laced boots into slip on boots and footwear with animal footwraps around it.

34. Looks really similar to the Montefortino helmet that the Rome faction use in the game, should we use it instead of the Gallic montefortino above or can those two be used interchangeably? 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

This guy went leather on what 0 A.D. uses for the champion helmet:

[Genava55]

5 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Gallic montefortino

The Celtic montefortino isnt widespread in the Iberian peninsula. The Celtiberians never used it, only the Iberians of the North-East like the Illergetae. 

[wackyserious]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This guy went leather on what 0 A.D. uses for the champion helmet:

@Genava55 @TKogumelos What about metal ornaments on leather helmets, like the one above?

[wackyserious]

33 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

The Celtic montefortino isnt widespread in the Iberian peninsula. The Celtiberians never used it, only the Iberians of the North-East like the Illergetae. 

So we'd go with the Roman type? and maybe mix a small variant chance for the Gallic type?

Going back this somehow brings back the issue with the Iberian faction being a combined representation of different cultures, in my mind right now, I thought we are striving towards making this faction as a defined Iberian faction with proper representation of Celtiberians, since the faction structures and majority of the units are going towards an Iberian identity

[TKogumelos]

14 hours ago, wackyserious said:

@TKogumelos is this clothing pattern exclusive to the Balearics? Or did Iberians also used stripe clothing patterns?

Could you also check if these clothing details and patterns are accurate for Iberian culture, since these are the current textures that we use for the Iberians

1.) The typical type we see in depictions

2.) Meander patterns

3.) Dyed short and long sleeved tunics

@wackyseriousThe stripe pattern was introduced in the Balearic Islands by the Phoenicians according to Strabo. 

Iberians used other type of stripe pattern composed by two red lines. 

South-eastern Iberian burial by José Luís García Moran already 4th century BC. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by TKogumelos

[TKogumelos]

7 hours ago, wackyserious said:

@Genava55 @TKogumelos What about metal ornaments on leather helmets, like the one above?

@wackyseriousMaybe less decorated, perhaps more something like this:

but also it were found metal crests for leather helmets. 

Different types of southeastern Iberian infantry during the 4th century BC.
Source: "Weapons, warriors and battles of the Ancient Iberia" Quesada Sanz. 2010

 

Crest of El cigarralejo dated about the early 4th century BC

Edited January 7, 2022 by TKogumelos

[TKogumelos]

7 hours ago, wackyserious said:

So we'd go with the Roman type? and maybe mix a small variant chance for the Gallic type?

Going back this somehow brings back the issue with the Iberian faction being a combined representation of different cultures, in my mind right now, I thought we are striving towards making this faction as a defined Iberian faction with proper representation of Celtiberians, since the faction structures and majority of the units are going towards an Iberian identity

@wackyseriousMaybe mix in the same faction Iberians from the north and the south? The use of metal helmets is somewhat later but I think we can give ourselves a little "creative license"

North-Eastern Iberian warrior of the mid-3rd century BC. (*Through the gauls the north-east Iberians also adopted the long shields and straight swords.) 

Edited January 7, 2022 by TKogumelos

[TKogumelos]

13 hours ago, wackyserious said:

34. Looks really similar to the Montefortino helmet that the Rome faction use in the game, should we use it instead of the Gallic montefortino above or can those two be used interchangeably? 

@wackyseriousThe problem is bronze montefortinoes were introduced in the Peninsula by the Carthaginians during the Punic wars. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by TKogumelos

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, TKogumelos said:

@wackyseriousThe problem is bronze montefortinoes were introduced in the Peninsula by the Carthaginians during the Punic wars. 

Not necessarily a problem, since the Punic Wars are how the Carthaginians and Romans are also depicted.

[Genava55]

7 hours ago, TKogumelos said:

The problem is bronze montefortinoes were introduced in the Peninsula by the Carthaginians during the Punic wars. 

The breastplate (cardiophylax) is also something from an earlier period right? Not in use anymore during the Punic Wars?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

12 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

The breastplate (cardiophylax) is also something from an earlier period right? Not in use anymore during the Punic Wars?

For who? I think there many depictions of the cardiophylax still in use by the Romans, but I am not sure about what primary sources there are. There's the famous triple-disk cardiophylax found in North Africa (?).

Edited January 7, 2022 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Genava55]

2 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

For who? I think there many depictions of the cardiophylax still in use by the Romans, but I am not sure about what primary sources there are. There's the famous triple-disk cardiophylax found in North Africa (?).

For the Romans they definitely are using it during the Punic Wars, Polybius mentioned it explicitly. But for the Iberians and Celtiberians, according to the articles above, the evidence for breastplates seems to stop both in the archaeological records and artistic depictions at the beginning of the 3rd c. BC.