Kushites, Spartans and AI abilities

[PhelpsGlen]

Hello!
I am a newbie, hoping that this is the right place to write.

After enjoying several matches with 0 A. D., I would like to give a feedback. Of course, this is only my opinion, the one of a single user with "average" abilities: not the best, not the worse. I write only hoping that this can give some help and a point of view.

1. There seems to be a sort of unbalance between the strength of Kushites with respect to others. Kushites are possibly the best faction in the current version of the game: their only lack is siege machines (however, well replaced by elephants). But maybe they are too strong. The extremely cheap Meroitic pikemen produce a lot of damages against any other unit in the game and they are very hard to defeat, even when alone. Considering the other factions, there is no equivalent unit, IMHO. Almost the same is for the Nubian archers: 10-15 of them produce a lot of damages against any enemy arrangement (only the Roman testudo can limit the losses): they are very effective, maybe too much with respect to the other factions. This seems not to depend on the developed blacksmith technologies. Please, don't misunderstand this: I do not mean that Kushites should be weakened, but rather that the other factions could be strengthened. You can beat Kushites only when you have neatly superior numbers and it is not always the case, especially when playing against the AI (medium).
2. Spartans are one of the most lacking factions in the game: they can not build walls, they have no champion cavalry units. Again, why not to add units and/or abilities to them?
3. AI is very fast. It's obvious that, the more you have experience, the more you can fight with the AI, but it seems that the game is shifted too much towards the player speed than towards strategy. AI seems to know all in advance about the map and resources, it takes almost no time to decide what to do. I would like to beat the AI not being faster, but choosing a better strategy (better choosing the attacks locations, the trade, the units to be produced, the places where to expand...). I would like to fight against a "more human" AI.

Again, please take this only as a single point of view of a single user, nothing more: however, I cared about giving some feedback, while playing to this wonderful game.

Bye!

Glenn

Edited August 8, 2018 by PhelpsGlen

[Astrid]

I never have a problem with the Kushites because I spread my army out,and use tactic. For example I hide behind buildings or behind trees with my skirimishers/slingers/archers,and while my swordsman are on the front lines I than flank my enemy with my range units to weaken my enemy.. When my enemies get weakened I than use my cavalry to finish the fight. If you use different types of military together you can kill any faction. Also take it slow,and look at the whole army,and what you are fighting,and plan it out. I even pause the game to plan the attack out. I don't see the Kushites needing any siege weapons except elephants because they never were advanced enough to build such weapons. How to be faster than the AI is to plan ahead,and what I mean by is at the beginning of the match train 3 cavalry and go scout the whole map,and know what your enemy is building,and rush them to prevent them from advancing. The enemy always attacks us the minute they get their first army so we should be the first attackers. Perhaps storm their camp,and kill the farmers/units to weaken them from the start,and if you can try to keep your units on enemy grounds to harass them,and prevent them from advancing. Make sure they don't build their first barracks. The more buildings lacking the more units/resources they lack to advance,and the more advantage you have over them. Keep their land occupied with your units if you can,and stay away from the civic center,and any building that shoots back. The spartans have a lot that will ruin a champion cavalry's life. The spartans don't need the best cavalry when they have the best hoplites and when put in the phalanx stance they are the most feared. A hoplite is a cavalry's nightmare heh Especially a champion one. About the archers,any unit with a lot of armour can plow down archers easily,and also get your cavalry speed/attack to maxed and you will rush them fast. Be the first on the offensive,and you shall achieve victoury. Good luck 

[Sundiata]

3 hours ago, Astrid said:

I don't see the Kushites needing any siege weapons except elephants because they never were advanced enough to build such weapons.

lol, sorry, couldn't resist...

The Great Triumphal Stela of Piye from the Amun temple at Napata, Year 21, c. 727 BC, mentions the use of a "movable tower" (Fontes Historiae Nubiorum p. 78), and even catapults (p. 80). Although "catapults" is a bit of a tentative translation and 727 BC seems like an almost incredulously early date for such a weapon (maybe it was just referring to slingers). That having said, their immediate neighbours in the levant were already using such devices: "King Uzziah, who reigned in Judah until 750 BC, is documented as having overseen the construction of machines to "shoot great stones" in 2 Chronicles 26:15". The Kingdom of Judah actually entered into a sort of protectorate relationship with the Kushite 25th Dynasty during Piye and Taharqa's reign, to thwart Assyrian expansionism, and cultural exchanges (including military ones) were common. It should also be noted that Kushite fortifications were often built with narrow L-shaped gateways, indicating attempts to neutralize ramming attacks (which means that siege warfare was a part of the local staple, also mentioned in their stelae). Lets not forget that their Bronze Age predecessors conquered the Egyptian Middle Kingdom Fortresses in Lower Nubia. These Egyptian fortresses are widely acknowledged to have been some of the most substantial fortresses ever built in the Bronze Age and they fell to Kushites.  

Quote

 

 

Of course our Kushites aren't 25th Dynasty Kushites, but the later Napatan and Meroitic military was actually more advanced than the earlier New Kingdom heritage of the 25th Dynasty.  

I agree with the rest of what you said though   

 

10 hours ago, PhelpsGlen said:

The extremely cheap Meroitic pikemen produce a lot of damages against any other unit in the game and they are very hard to defeat

I believe for balance purposes all the pikemen across civs have similar stats, although if unit-stats become more unique per civ, Kushite pikemen should definitely be bested by any other (Greek) pike-unit. They should technically have lower armour, to be more precise. 

 

10 hours ago, PhelpsGlen said:

they have no champion cavalry units.

Spartans weren't really known for their champion cavalry... They had cav, they just weren't good compared to more cav-heavy civs. They used cavalry mercenaries later on though, anybody know more about them?

 

There's always a way to counter your enemy though. Play around, have fun, discover the dynamics a little more in-depth. You'll quickly realize that the AI is a bit of a dimwit. If you get frustrated, you can play with a revealed map and watch the AI and even learn from it. If you get really frustrated you can watch youtube-replays and tutorials which are also very helpful. The pro-multiplayer matches are on another level and watching them will quickly teach you everything you need to know to crush noobs...

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Sundiata

[RomuloSinRemo]

kush actually is one of the worst civs of 0ad (is not the worst). First: they have archers phase 1, that is very bad because archers is the weakest of the 3 ranged citizen-soldiers of 0ad (slingers, skimishr and archers) Second: the houses are expensive (150 wood 10 pop) instead the britons houses for example (75 wood 5 pop), Third: they lack of siege,elephants are weak even massed they die very very fast, and the last thing imo is the heros of kushites, they are bad compared to other civs , you should try britons or ptolomies (best civs by far). about spartan champs cav: champs in Alpha 23 arent popular,  too expensive and they die fast vs citizen-soldiers. all kind of champs, even elephants (eles sucks). walls are useless and expensive in popular maps like mainland. and spartan have good hero, skimishr phase 1, rams, swordmen (to counter enemy siege), and (if u want to do them) one of the best champs in the game.
ptolomies for example is the strongest civ because: 1) mercenaries phase 1 from cc and barracks (mercenaries are cheaper and are affected by some techs and hero), 2) free houses = free wood (mercenaries cost 25 food 50 wood 25 metal, if you get almost free wood then mercenaries are very cheap) 3) imo the best 3 heros in the game, cleopatra +attack speed, ele hero mercenaries cheaper (again mercenaries are a problem) and cav hero pikes with more hp and is a sword cav hero (that is op to kill siege, raid or dance). 

[Guest]

I can only speak from the PoV of online play. Currently, no one seems to play kushites. Majority of players consider Kushites to be a low-tier civ. Unlike spartans. Which is considered to be one of the best. I have not played competetively for some time now, maybe the meta has changed.

[Sundiata]

Elephants do indeed go down quite easily. Advancing with Kushite elephants through fortified positions of the enemy is a bit tedious, I agree.

There's also this related topic:

Anyway, I think every civ having battering rams would help negate this issue. just make sure to make battering rams slower than the slowest infantry unit because chasing rams across the battlefield is really... Ugh... 

[Hannibal_Barca]

Hopefully the next release will see Kushites splitting away from ptolemaic-pattern gameplay

As for limited siege, mauryans only have elephants (kush still has siege tower)

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Hannibal_Barca

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Hannibal_Barca said:

As for limited siege, mauryans only have elephants (kush still has siege tower)

Speaking of which, is it intended that Mauryans can train rams if they manage to capture a fortress of a faction which can train rams?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Counter must back...

-archer can(must) defeat melee infantry.x1.5?

@wowgetoffyourcellphone any advice(tip or review) of this?

[Guest]

Archers would die to melee units one on one.

I think he was referring to kushite champion archers vs citizen soldiers.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Guest

[Hannibal_Barca]

1 hour ago, (-_-) said:

Speaking of which, is it intended that Mauryans can train rams if they manage to capture a fortress of a faction which can train rams?

Perhaps not, fortresses when captured can be used for construction of the same units that were available to the previous owner, provided that the current owner could train such a unit anyway

Since mauryan rams are recently made available, they can be accessed from other fortresses

Might be a deliberate bonus (like macedon training sword champs)

As for archers hard-countering melee, that's ridiculous

Given the fact that ranged just keep shooting even at point-blank range, it would mean melee losing even in so-called close combat, which is unacceptable

And if the swordsman is heavily armoured, perhaps equipped with a shield, I don't see the point of the counter

Edited August 9, 2018 by Hannibal_Barca

[Lion.Kanzen]

9 minutes ago, (-_-) said:

Archers would die to melee units one on one.

I think he was referring to kushite champion archers vs citizen soldiers.

At hand to hand , yes , but in mass to distance... specially heavy swordsman.