Gaia: Animals

[Enrique]

As far as I see it, the trac is shared. You can create a trac ticket, and set the component to "Art & Animation" when you want to report a bug or enhancement there, or when you want to get a certain thing into the game. But it looks like most artists aren't used to a trac system, so it's mostly used by the developers.

This and the fact that Art tasks are since some months open to the public (everyone who wants can start working on art tasks) made the art progress to be on the forums where WIP pics, feedback and reference sharing is faster (or easier) for the users.

[Micket]

Of course, noone is suggesting no forum posts. Keep the discussion here, sure. But the "todo"-list should be in the issue tracker. When some art object is finished in the forums, add it to svn, just close the issue in Trac.

Having to use the forum, then I might have just started working on a Wildebeest, or rabbit, or goat, like was suggested to me. This would of course be a waste of time since they all seem to be in 0AD already. Maybe they are just missing animations, or perhaps the model isn't that great? I have no idea.

This: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15686

is just a inefficient manual issue tracker, and also out-of-date.

Since it's quite clearly not a good way to keep track of things, so I've simply been suggested 'eh, just check in atlas and cross-reference with all the forum posts manually'.

And that won't tell me if a model needs to be modified, it doesn't say if the model is there, just missing textures,

I... feel like i'm taking crazy pills for having to argue for using an issue tracker to keep track of issues in a large collaborative open project.

In fact, no artists would need to change any of their habits, all that would change is the addition of a proper way of tracking what needs to be done.

Some maintainer could still aloen just use the issue tracker to keep track of what needs to be done, instead of writing a list in a forum post.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I... feel like i'm taking crazy pills for having to argue for using an issue tracker to keep track of issues in a large collaborative open project.

Breathe, bro. It'll happen. Manpower is short currently. It's just that previously I was able to keep track of everything myself. But now that I can't do that anymore, it's best to do what you are suggesting.

[Enrique]

I... feel like i'm taking crazy pills for having to argue for using an issue tracker to keep track of issues in a large collaborative open project.

I'm not arguing against using trac for art tasks I also think it would be easier to organize, just pointing the reasons why it's not being used yet

[historic_bruno]

Why isn't there a Trac for art development to keep track of what needs to be done? Seems like the obvious choice to keep track on who is working on what.

In an ideal world, sure, everything would be perfectly organized and always updated, but we have to deal with reality, which is that people have limited time and not everyone is equally organized We're all volunteers here and it's a community project, which means as part of the community you're welcome to step in and update or provide documentation you feel is appropriate. You'll learn what's missing and help others in the process, that would be awesome It's one thing to notice problems and another to help fix them.

Until recently, art discussions all occurred on private forums, so it was a huge step and adjustment just moving them into the open here (and it took quite a bit of prodding, believe me). The next step will be using Trac more for organization, but artists tend to find it less friendly. Nothing else is stopping anyone from using it, however.

The list I posted was just examples, I didn't say you had to work on those animals, of course you should always check SVN (we recommend that any contributors use SVN so they work with the latest assets, and it makes committing changes easier for us) and for now, the two topics currently listing animals, it shouldn't really take that much time to figure out. Again it's not an ideal process and anyone is welcome to step in and improve it.

[Micket]

I compiled a list of all the animals in here (minus the ones which already have tickets) in a format which should make it easier to add new animals to trac.

I don't know exactly which species it should be, so I can't add wikipedia links.

I would suggest creating all of them, and close the ones which are finished already. If the species isn't decided upon it can be added later. I could add these now (though i wouldn't mind splitting the work, we could arrange it over IRC). Ok?

Animal: Albatross
Animal Cosmetic Africa
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (fly)

Animal: Eagle
Animal Cosmetic Alpine Desert Mediterranean Savanna Steppe
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (fly)

Animal: Egret
Animal Cosmetic Mediterranean
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (fly)

Animal: Flamingo
Animal Cosmetic  Savanna Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (stand idle)

Animal: Goose
Animal Cosmetic Alpine Mediterranean Steppe Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (swim)

Animal: Gull
Animal Cosmetic Alpine Mediterranean Polar Savanna Temperate Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (fly)

Animal: Parrot
Animal Cosmetic Savanna
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (fly)

Animal: Porpoise
Animal Cosmetic Mediterranean Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (swim)

Animal: Shark
Animal Cosmetic Mediterranean Temperate Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (swim)

Animal: Vulture
Animal Cosmetic Alpine Desert Mediterranean Polar Savanna Steppe Tmperate Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (fly, stand idle)



Animal: Camel
Animal Domestic Desert Steppe
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Goat
Animal Domestic Desert Medieterranean Savanna Steppe
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Horse
Animal Domestic Alpine Dsert Savanna Steppe Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Oxen
Animal Domestic Alpine Desert Mediterranean Savanna Steppe Temperate Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Pig
Animal Domestic Mediterranean Savanna Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Sheep
Animal Domestic Alpine Desert Mediterranean Steppe Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)



Animal: African Elephant
Animal Huntable Aggresive Savanna
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Asian Elephant
Animal Huntable Aggresive Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Cobra
Animal Huntable Aggresive Desert Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (movement, attack)

Animal: Lion
Animal Huntable Aggresive Desert Mediterranean Savanna Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: North African Forest Elephant
Animal Huntable Aggresive Mediterranean Africa
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Polar Bear
Animal Huntable Aggresive Polar
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Syrian Elephant
Animal Huntable Aggresive Mediterranean
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)



Animal: Bear
Animal Huntable Defensive Alpine Desert Medieterranean Steppe Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Boar
Animal Huntable Defensive Medieterranean Savanna Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Cheetah
Animal Huntable Defensive Desert Savanna Africa
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Gorilla
Animal Huntable Defensive Africa
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Hyena
Animal Huntable Defensive Savanna Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Leopard
Animal Huntable Defensive Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Python
Animal Huntable Defensive Savanna Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (movement, ?)

Animal: Walrus
Animal Huntable Defensive Polar
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Chicken
Animal Huntable Passive Desert Medieterranean Savanna Steppe
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Fish
Animal Huntable Passive Alpine Desert Mediterranean Polar Savanna Steppe Temperate Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (swim)

Animal: Peafowl (Peacock and Peahen)
Animal Huntable Passive Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Whale
Animal Huntable Passive Mediterranean Polar Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (swim)



Animal: Antelope
Animal Huntable Skittish Savanna Steppe
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Baboon
Animal Huntable Skittish Africa
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Bison (European)
Animal Huntable Skittish Steppe Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Deer
Animal Huntable Skittish Alpine Mediterranean Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Gazelle
Animal Huntable Skittish Desert Savanna Africa
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Giraffe
Animal Huntable Skittish Desert Savanna
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Ostrich
Animal Huntable Skittish Desert Savanna
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Patridge
Animal Huntable Skittish Desert Savanna
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Pheasent
Animal Huntable Skittish Alpine Mediterranean Steppe Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Rabbit
Animal Huntable Skittish Alpine Desert Mediterranean Savanna Steppe Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Reindeer
Animal Huntable Skittish Polar
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Rhesus Macaque
Animal Huntable Skittish Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Rock Ptarmigan
Animal Huntable Skittish Polar
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Seal
Animal Huntable Skittish Polar
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Water Buffalo
Animal Huntable Skittish Savanna Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Wildebeest
Animal Huntable Skittish Savanna Africa
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)

Animal: Zebra
Animal Huntable Skittish Savanna
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run)



Animal: Crocodile
Animal Huntable Violent Desert Savanna Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, attack, swim)

Animal: Gharial
Animal Huntable Violent Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, attack, swim)

Animal: Rhinoceros
Animal Huntable Violent Africa Asia
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

Animal: Wolf
Animal Huntable Violent Alpine Mediterranean Polar Steppe Temperate
Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (walk, run, attack)

[oshron]

ooh, gorillas i'm REALLY looking forward to seeing all of these critters in-game

Edited June 18, 2013 by oshron

[Unarmed]

Leopards are kind of a must have. They lived in Southern Europe, Middle East and Asia (like now) and of course Africa.

[Unarmed]

Let me help out. I know most of the common animals.

Animal: Parrot

Animal Cosmetic Savanna

Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (fly)

Go for Rose-necked parakeet, it was both in Africa and India, and is very common.

It is a parakeet though, not a parrot.

Animal: Vulture

Animal Cosmetic Alpine Desert Mediterranean Polar Savanna Steppe Tmperate Africa Asia

Requires: Models, Textures, Animations (fly, stand idle)

Go for Griffon Vulture, it looks like a stereotypical vulture and it also has a huge range;

it lives in Europe, Asia, Middle East, North Africa. In ancient times it would have been much more numerous than now.

Additional animals of ancient times of the regions in 0 A.D:

Important to have (common)

Animal: Leopard

Location: Southern Europe (Greece), Middle East, India and African continent.

Animal: Roe deer

Location: Europe

Animal: Dorcas gazelle

Location: North Africa, Egypt and parts of Middle East (Iran, Iraq,.

Animal: Goitered gazelle

Location: Middle East, Turkey.

Animal: Generic hare (presenting both Cape hare, Indian hare and European hare)

Location: most of Europe, Turkey, Africa and Middle East.

Good to have (more important as gorilla)

(European) elk

Location: Temperate Europe, North of Europe (Rhine marshlands biome)

Animal: Onager (wild donkey)

Location: Middle East and partly India.

Animal: Beaver

Location: Temperate Europe, North of Europe, near water. (Rhine marshlands biome)

Object: Beaver lodge

Location: Temperate Europe, North of Europe, near water. (Rhine marshlands biome)

Animal: Fallow Deer

Location: Turkey and Middle East.

Animal: Striped Hyena

Location: Northern half of Africa (not only North Africa), Middle East, India and Turkey.

In Ancient times it probably also lived in Italy and Greece.

Animal: Sambar deer

Location: India

Animal: Chital

Location: India

Nice to have but not important (very location specific) (think gorilla)

Animal: Iberian wolf

Distinctive reddish brown skin variation of wolf.

Location: Iberia.

Animal: Dhole (wild dog)

Location: India

Animal: Asian black bear

Location: Pakistan, Northern India

Animal: Wild water buffalo

Location: India

Animal: Gaur

Location: India

(Might add more) Flora I will do myself.

EDIT: some can just be reskins, like chital and fallow deer, perhaps the gazelles. Though I would like to see them as placeholders, and someday replaced by accurate models.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Unarmed

[frenchiveruti]

Nyan cat as easter egg?

[serveurix]

Nyan cat as easter egg?

You're not the first one to ask for nonfree content as easter eggs. If you want to have nonfree easter eggs please make a mod or a derivated version.

[Unarmed]

Nyan cat as easter egg?

Easter eggs seem more like something that a developer happens to make that doens't belong in the main game or something they enjoy making and put in the game for fun.

Not something to suggest, unlike things that would be in the main game. Though it does little harm requesting for them.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

https://docs.google....eVE&output=html

Here I could make some adjustments to. Wolves do live in Asia and Middle East, though I do not know if there are already too many dangerous animals there. There are also North African aurochs and Asian ones, but those might already be extinct in the timeframe.

I could take a better look, also at the biomes, and help make them feel more authentic (not too extreme) but I feel like nobody cares.

Today I want to make some skins for mostly generic animals so we can have indefinate placeholders.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Unarmed

[sanderd17]

I could take a better look, also at the biomes, and help make them feel more authentic (not too extreme) but I feel like nobody cares.

Well, currently, the biome info isn't that important. It even never gets in the game (if you check the XMLs, you won't find any biome info). Only for soil textures, the biome is used as part of the name, just to make them easy to find (as there are so many different forest grounds).

Maybe we should discuss adding that info at least to the XML, so when alternative query methods are added to Atlas, you can query for biome.

Are you willing to add biome info to the XMLs? (it will be a lot of edit work). And then create a patch, so it can easily be applied. If you want to do that, I guess we'll first have to discuss what the best method will be, and then you can do it.

Also, you could collect textures (as Micket said, photo's of the complete animal, from different angles, and preferably on a clean background). If you can collect those, I suggest you add them to the correct trac ticket. http://trac.wildfiregames.com/query?status=!closed&keywords=~Animal

If they're on the trac ticket, they won't get lost in old forum posts.

And remember, everything you contribute to the project should have an explicit free license.

[Unarmed]

The biomes I mean more animals and also plants, as I've seen some errors. Placeholders are fine, like rabbits instead of actual hares, but I'm not keen on wildebeests in Turkey (if I remember correctly. I thought <something> badlands was in Turkey and it had wildebeests) I also saw pheasants for alpine and temperate.

Pheasants are not native to that area. Though it is a fact that the Romans brought them to Europe, and thanks to the Romans and 18th century hunters they now do live in all of Europe. Pheasants were bred by Romans for meat, so it's better to make them passive and have them in the mediterranean area.

The pheasant thing might be real nitpicking I guess and not many people would be bothered and so it could be ignored. But the wildebeest is something that I think does deserve to be changed.

Are you willing to add biome info to the XMLs? (it will be a lot of edit work). And then create a patch, so it can easily be applied.

I definatly would, however I first want to make some skins for existing animals, to turn some generic species into specific species and also some real life variations (modifying existing textures). After that, I would like to do it. I enjoy writing. I think it would be a good idea to post what I came up with on the forum so people can give their opinions and then I could make that patch perhaps.

I also need native English speakers for error detection. I scored above average on English at school but I still make errors from time to time.

And remember, everything you contribute to the project should have an explicit free license.

Good that you say this. I understand.

Though what I'm wondering is if I would have read something and describe it in my own words. Is that okay?

I was also wondering, I made some concepts for a mod I would want to make one day (very, very, very far in the future or never). I used pictures and drawed on top of them to use the specific features. I would delete the actual picture and the thing I drawed would be a different picture that looks a bit like the original picture. Some of them I used more than one picture (like one for the nose, one for the headshape).

Would this be an issue if I ever make the mod and have these pictures as unit portraits?

Edited June 25, 2013 by Unarmed

[sanderd17]

I definatly would, however I first want to make some skins for existing animals, to turn some generic species into specific species and also some real life variations (modifying existing textures). After that, I would like to do it. I enjoy writing. I think it would be a good idea to post what I came up with on the forum so people can give their opinions and then I could make that patch perhaps.

I also need native English speakers for error detection. I scored above average on English at school but I still make errors from time to time.

It's not so much writing I was talking about. More gathering information, structuring it, and bringing it to the game.

I was thinking of giving every fauna and flora template an XML tag like this:

<Biome>mediterranean alpine temperate</Biome>

That way, a map designer making an alpine map could query all alpine fauna and flora, and pick from that list. Instead of having to know where every animal lives.

Good that you say this. I understand.

Though what I'm wondering is if I would have read something and describe it in my own words. Is that okay?

I was also wondering, I made some concepts for a mod I would want to make one day (very, very, very far in the future or never). I used pictures and drawed on top of them to use the specific features. I would delete the actual picture and the thing I drawed would be a different picture that looks a bit like the original picture. Some of them I used more than one picture (like one for the nose, one for the headshape).

Would this be an issue if I ever make the mod and have these pictures as unit portraits?

Sometimes it's a thin line. If you read a book, and remember stuff from it. The things you remembered belong to you. So are copyright free. But if you use a book to look up things you don't know, that information belongs too the book's author. It's certainly not approved to copy anything from a list. As a list is considered a database, in which case even the tiniest amounts are protected (at least in Europe).

For images and photos. If they come from an original idea, that idea is protected (people have been convicted for drawing the same city from the same viewing angle, although they didn't copy from each other). If the picture doesn't come from an original idea. The picture itself is still protected. So you can try to remember human proportions. Or make your drawing and compare it with some pictures afterwards. But in no way you can use it as a background layer, unless it's already your work.

These rules are difficult to follow. But most open project require such rules. You can't risk to lose the project just because of a copyright violation.

[Unarmed]

Wow. I had no idea it was that strict. Though it looks like it is not always enforced.

If you look at something like 9gag (which I mostly dispise but that's not important), it has numerous copyright violations.

And at school we learn that as long as you show where you got it from in case of pictures, and if you found information and write it in your own words you are fine (but the latter seems okay).

So now I'm wondering. I've seen modellers using pictures to make their model, wouldn't that also be copyright violation?

[sanderd17]

Content hosting sites are an exception. They have less responsibility over the content. It's enough if they take it down after a complaint. They don't risk other damage. While if copyrighted material gets into a project like this, it is very likely it will lead to financial damage (which can't be paid by a non-profit like this).

Education is a different exception. You're allowed to copy everything for educational purposes, as long as you mention the source, and purely use it for education.

And wrt modelling, if a judge would decide, he'll probably say modelling based on a picture you're not allowed to reproduce would be copyright violation. There are lots of special cases of copyright (like the Atomium building in Belgium is copyrighted: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomium, http://atomium.be/authorsrights.aspx). So I can only advise you to use nothing but your own resources. At least if you don't want to endanger the project.

[zoot]

Wow. I had no idea it was that strict. Though it looks like it is not always enforced.

You are right that in the most extreme cases it is not enforced. Like, when you browse a web page, you actually copy that web page to your computer, so that may technically be a violation. No one would ever pursue a case over that, though. But the moment you pass something you copied on to someone else, you are quickly moving into dangerous territory - big copyright holders (Disney, Universal etc.) in particular can be very aggressive about asserting their rights in that case.

Since 0 A.D. is a game that is distributed to potentially thousands of people, we would potentially be perpetrating thousands of such acts of illegally copying content to someone else, if we accidentally included some content without solid permission from the copyright holder. So that is something we need to be pretty careful about, IMO.

If you look at something like 9gag (which I mostly dispise but that's not important), it has numerous copyright violations.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here? I looked at the site, I don't see any obvious violations. But as sander17 suggests, there are exceptions to the copyright law that a site like 9gag may use. None of those apply to us, though.

And at school we learn that as long as you show where you got it from in case of pictures, and if you found information and write it in your own words you are fine (but the latter seems okay).

Things you prepare for school typically won't be passed on to other people, so copyright holders are highly unlikely to assert their rights in that case. And as sander17 suggests, many countries have so-called "fair use" exceptions in their copyright law that expressly permits the kind of limited use for educational purposes you are talking about.

So now I'm wondering. I've seen modellers using pictures to make their model, wouldn't that also be copyright violation?

This depends on subject, I would say. I wouldn't be suprised if a sufficiently crazy lawyer would be able to win such a case under certain circumstances. But for some very common objects (like a fork), it might be difficult to establish that the picture was really the source of the model.

(Textures are a completely different story, of course. An UV map copied directly from a copyrighted image without permission would be an open-and-shut case of copyright infringement.)

Edited June 25, 2013 by zoot

[serveurix]

Like, when you browse a web page, you technically copy that web page to your computer, so that may technically be a violation.

No no no, you are allowed to access a resource in the conditions the rightholders have set up for you. When they publish a web page, you have the right to download a copy of that webpage and put it on your computer for your own use. What's forbidden is for example to distribute exact or modified copies of that webpage to other peers.

The craziest example of this kind of rule is the publication by the rightholders of a content under classic copyright, EULA or any non-shareable license on a peer-to-peer network. Technically, what each peer is authorised to do is to download the content from the source peer (the IP of the original publisher), but not to share parts of the file with the rest of the swarm. In other terms, they can only using the P2P network as a server-to-client network. As most P2P clients are not configured by default for this kind of use (and I don't know any client which can provide this kind of use on a per-file basis), most peers are likely to break the copyright on the published work.

In practise, the peers are very unlikely to be pronounced guilty, but if we follow the rules strictly, this kind of behavior (publishing non-shareable content on a P2P network) is a legal trap.

[Unarmed]

Very interesting thanks for sharing this information, I will take it very serious, though I guess I should have made a thread about this since this is not supposed to be in the topic.

(9gag has many edited pictures from movies, series, photos taken from facebook (I don't think with permission), other images.)

Maybe someone can move this to a new thread.

[zoot]

No no no, you are allowed to access a resource in the conditions the rightholders have set up for you. When they publish a web page, you have the right to download a copy of that webpage and put it on your computer for your own use. What's forbidden is for example to distribute exact or modified copies of that webpage to other peers.

Sorry, that is not true. It is the act of copying that is regulated, not just the act of distributing the copy. But as I said, it is so technical that no one is likely to pursue it (including the judge).

[serveurix]

Sorry, that is not true. It is the act of copying that is regulated, not just the act of distributing the copy. But as I said, it is so technical that no one is likely to pursue it (including the judge).

Well maybe you're right, I have a very european-centric vision of copyright. "Accessing a resource in the conditions the copyright holders have set up for you" has the advantage to work for all kind of distribution. What does the law says for paid content then ? When you download a copy of a film for money, is this copy always preceded by a text granting you the legality of the copy you're going to make ?

[zoot]

Well maybe you're right, I have a very european-centric vision of copyright. "Accessing a resource in the conditions the copyright holders have set up for you" has the advantage to work for all kind of distribution. What does the law says for paid content then ? When you download a copy of a film for money, is this copy always preceded by a text granting you the legality of the copy you're going to make ?

In many cases, I think there is an EULA-like text stating something to that effect. That wasn't really my point, though. I agree that permission can be implied. But this permission is not necessarily implied just because the content is on a website. It will depend on the nature of the website. (Of course, it would be very difficult to argue that the permission is not implied on a website like, say, cnn.com. But technically it is still something a sufficiently motivated lawyer could have a back-and-forth over with the judge.)

[Loki1950]

But technically it is still something a sufficiently motivated lawyer could have a back-and-forth over with the judge.)

And that may cost you quite a lot of money.

Enjoy the Choice

[serveurix]

In many cases, I think there is an EULA-like text stating something to that effect. That wasn't really my point, though. I agree that permission can be implied. But this permission is not necessarily implied just because the content is on a website. It will depend on the nature of the website. (Of course, it would be very difficult to argue that the permission is not implied on a website like, say, cnn.com. But technically it is still something a sufficiently motivated lawyer could have a back-and-forth over with the judge.)

Excuse me, but apart from that I'm still dubious about the webpage thing. When I download a webpage, am I technically the one who makes the copy ? My browser just sends a request to a web server, and the web server decides (or not) to send bits of the webpage over the network as a response. To me it looks like it is the server who makes the copy, not the client. Am I wrong ?