Corral and Herdable Relics

[sphyrth]

Okay, let's talk about @wowgetoffyourcellphone

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Corrals as they are now are broken and not good, this is universally accepted I think. But... but... Corrals as they are now are not what they are intended for completion. Here's what they can be/should be use for: storing relics. Wait, the game does not have relics? The relics are herdable animals. No one says relics break AOK or AOM. Herdable animals are the relics of 0 A.D. So, you capture them and then garrison them into the corral to gain their benefit, just like a relic from AOK or AOM. These are not meant to unbalance the game, but to give the player a small edge, like relics did in those games. They provide a nice little benefit of scouting before the enemy does, just like relics, and add a nice little layer to the game. Just remove the animal training aspect from the corral and readjust the techs toward this new paradigm.

I like this idea because of a certain implication.

If you're a player like me, I favor map exploration. Asides from finding your enemy's farm and lumbercamps, and map treasures (which I turn off by default) I don't find map exploration very rewarding.

From watching Aoe2 commentators, scouting the map for your first sheep/boars is very vital and encourages players to scout (both for animals and relics). For now, we have fruit trees and fruit bushes for that... but all of it is practically given by default in every starting match... your only real strategy is the build order (gather first or build first).

I believe wow's suggestion gives such a rewarding feeling of possibly having an advantage against your enemy, and exploring the map.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Relics in this time frame must be different and more heroic than Holy. Like Age of mythology, but without fantasy.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Relics in this time frame must be different and more heroic than Holy. Like Age of mythology, but without fantasy.

Lion, the comparison to aok and aom relics are just a comparison, breh.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Lion, the comparison to aok and aom relics are just a comparison, breh.

Like the gameplay get a significance. I'm imagining founding Aquiles sword but don't have same feeling like the Vera cross ( the truth cross) I remember how relics works in Total War giving traits. In your mod can give glory.

objects in the maps that can be controllable and gain money were sacred places, like oracles. In AoE I they have ruins or discoveries .

id just one idea Justus.

now they mentioned things in the maps... can rescue people like AoE3. Or defeats bandits( creeps).

 

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other things the LOS of units must be reduced, is easily explore the map.

 

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with build order yes I like that, but for example in nomad the scouting is different.( AOK) some maps are specials, I didn't enjoy that in AoM. AoM carry to many mistakes.

[elexis]

Most classic maps indeed have more starting resources than resources in "hunting distance".

The new maps by _kali in alpha 20 and 21 have much more animals in hunting distance. Hunting them can be invested into a cavalry rush.

Some maps like volcanic lands don't have any food on the map and the gameplay is about 4-5min slower due to that.

Not sure if there is a right or wrong in there, having diverse maps means less repetition and more thinking / player adaptation.

[Lion.Kanzen]

That the funny of polar map .. but the the last time there too much wolves.

 

[sphyrth]

Well, there you go. Maps affecting gameplay... some favoring corrals, and others favoring farms.

[elexis]

5 hours ago, sphyrth said:

Well, there you go. Maps affecting gameplay... some favoring corrals, and others favoring farms.

It's not really the food income of the map that determines whether corrals or fields are rather suited at all, but the time when you can start corrals. Some players will always start with corrals to have men to defend from attackers, even if it means having only 70 population (instead of 120) at minute 10.

Some players that do corrals will always train exactly 1 sheep at each corral, no matter what and build like 15 corrals.

Others build half the amount of corrals but train batches of 5 there.

Other players will always build fields, just so that they don't have to care about keeping the sheep flow going.

I like using the fields and farmstead upgrades in the first 15 minutes, since those females are faster in the beginning (assuming no additional huntables), build exactly one corral, upgrade that and immediately start doing batches of 5 there, then build 8 more corrals there and slowly replace the women with cavalry, so my city becomes less vulnerable (always having 20 men to garrison the civic center), still having a continuous food income (since with batches of 5, I can safely forget the corrals when fighting, they can become idle and I still have a big buffer of food in the bank, which I wouldn't have if I'd use batch size 1) and my population limit isn't consumed anymore by defenseless women. Notice this also has the disadvantage of not having workers anymore around, so if I want / have to build or repair something, I can do it only slowly.

6 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

That the funny of polar map .. but the the last time there too much wolves.

 

The number of wolves on polar sea depends on the mapsize. It is definitely a 0 field map, so you have men to fight off the wolves. Also many players invest their initial wood into building a palisade wall around their civic center, so that they can build gather food metal and stone without being touched by wolves. Other players invest their wood into docks and go fishing and trading via sea, where they can't be touched by wolves. For team and last man standing games it's an entirely different story and either way requires the player to think outside of the box. The idea is that the first 45min of an 8 player game, the players are busy struggling with the wolves and then slowly but surely becoming more concerned with their human enemies.

[drsingh]

1 hour ago, drsingh said:

 

On 3/19/2017 at 6:06 PM, elexis said:

Maybe they don't work as originally intended, but why are they broken? They do work and are a an alternative source of food income, more rewarding but more micro intense. Players are _not_ forced to use the more rewarding option because just doing fields works and there are many players who try different corral strats and many players who are very successful without fields.

Garrisoning animals in corrals seems quite boring to me, income without effort, not self-balancing, unless you add further logic to it than a simple resource trickle upon garrisoning.

Corrals are broken because they are extremely effective. Players soon get multiple thousands of food in their bank. So food ceases to become a resource. And everything which costs food is free. With bartering at market, it outperforms even Traders.

There shouldnt be 2 infinite sources of single resource. Because it just means one of them is redundant feature. Being an alternate source which is micro intense is not a good arguement. There are less people playing right now so it may seem just doing fields works against a guy doing corrals. But it would not in more intense competitive seen. The more skilled players with higher apm will always only use corrals, and not build a single farm. And the lower skilled casual players will always build only farms and not bother with corrals. There wont be an option here. Good players will be forced to use corrals to not auto-lose. And Corral is just a time consuming mundane mechanic, the kind which takes the fun away. Even those guys who can macro it, dont enjoy it.

Garrisoning animals is to give it a strategic option. Assuming that first herdables are made to have faster gather rates than hunts. After finding a random sheep/goat. A player has an option to either garrison it in corral for a slow trickle. Or eat it up quickly for a fast but limited spike. Both these options would seem favourable in different situations. Also the additional build limit to sheep from corral will make it a finite resource so theres no conflict with farms.

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