Balace of Rome faction patch

[Eraser]

Hi devs,

I'm amazed at the game, and as a OOP dev, I'ld like to propose and contribute to to balance the factions, in 2 aspects regarding to Rome's underpowered profile;

1 -> Divide et Impera

I know that the Rome's "Divide et Impera", the ability of Rome's generals to turn enemy units into allies was not implemented yet, and I think that would be the key ability of this faction to win in late game, since Rome seduced conquered territories and gave them seats in the senate or even integrate the cultures of occupied factions into their own. I would want to help implement that ability, since that would be the key to Rome's way of winning; power through wealth and alliances, like they did.

2 -> Castrum Vallum and Champions

The main point on building a Castrum Vallum is to place soldiers into enemy territory and attack by unprotected flanks so you can win. In current metagame, without champions you don't have a chance to win using that strategy, so the use of this strategy, as it is of this faction, is really scarce, since not only you can't win with it it, but also it's very weak in terms of health so you'll be also giving another weapon to the enemy. I propose to help fix this.

Thanks for your time

[Eraser]

Modifications on the patched Castrum Vallum definition file:

<Territory>own neutral enemy ally</Territory> Now, as the description says, they can be build ANYWHERE. You couldn't use it to protect your allies, so the bonus inspired on thematic of rome and its alliances is quite broken that way.

<MaxArrowCount>40</MaxArrowCount> It would be ridiculous that, with 40 soldiers inside (already difficult to do unless you're full defensive), you'ld be able to shoot only 15 arrows. The building itself (it's made of wood of course) has very low health, so the arrows are the only possible way to avoid it getting killed by a few champions.

<Entities datatype="tokens">
      units/{civ}_infantry_swordsman_b
      units/{civ}_infantry_spearman_a
      units/{civ}_infantry_javelinist_b
      units/{civ}_cavalry_spearman_b
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_ballista_packed
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_scorpio_packed
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_oxybeles_packed
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_lithobolos_packed
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_ram
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_tower
      units/{civ}_champion_infantry
      units/{civ}_champion_cavalry
    </Entities>

This is the whole point of creating this buildings on age 3, since things you create on age 3 have to be powerful enough to create a late game win. A military camp that is deprived of the best military units is no military camp. That's one characteristical way for Rome to win; its superior military tactics, being able to build secret camps in selected areas leading to unguarded flanks, and striking. Champions are necessary for those tasks, since they are the late game insignia.

Hope you like it, I'll try to implement Divide and Impera, wish me luck.

rome_army_camp.xml

[Eraser]

Ticket proposal:

Rome faction currently has handicaps due to underdevelopment and its light bonuses make the usage of this civilization really scarce.

1- Redesign of Rome's civilization auras:

  SINGLE PLAYER

    -Current Testudo formation bonus.
    
    -PAX Romana: Rome faction has a ceasefire bonus until you reach age III.
     History: Pax Romana or Pax Augusta was the long period of time of peace that Rome's
     military actions in order to expand their empire were minimal. Emperor Augustus
     accomplished to maintain this peace during aproximatedly 206 years.

  MULTIPLAYER

    -Romanization: You and your allies share technology trees.
     History: Romanization was the process the Roman Empire implanted its culture on
     conquered territories. The empire also accepted many cultural aspects of the provinces
     and integrated them on its own culture.

2- Improvement of building Castrum Vallum parameters to make it a late-game win condition.

    -Recruitment of champions.
    -Can be built on ally territory.
    -Arrows set to a maximum of 40.

3- Implementation of Divide et Impera ability.

    -Cost reduced to 100 metal.

[Zeta1127]

I am skeptical of the aura changes, Testudo formation isn't going to be replaced by Pax Romana, since formations simply haven't been fully implemented yet. Also Pax Romana and Romanization are Roman Empire concepts not Roman Republic concepts, so Pax Romana and Romanization simply don't work with the Roman Republic, especially since the Roman Empire is planned to be included as a separate faction for Part 2 Empires Besieged.

[Eraser]

Thx Zeta1127,

I thought in keeping the current auras and making a design based on them. Instead of the typical champion-based and rush strategy, I think Rome Republic could be a mid-ranged civ, winning with great numbers of citizen soldiers thx to the armor bonus on your territories.

I've boosted the Castrum Vallum as a win condition for armies of expanding territory, where you can dominate the enemy surrounding him with army camps, and every time he has an open flank, you build another even closer to him, till you smother him

  <TerritoryInfluence>
    <Root>false</Root>
    <Radius>50</Radius>
    <Weight>40000</Weight>
  </TerritoryInfluence>

Now Castrum Vallum have a little territory influence, so you can make them into you ally's side so he can get the multiplayer bonus Socii even in the battlefront, or secure resources with chances to survive with Citizenship.

   <Entities datatype="tokens">
      units/{civ}_infantry_swordsman_b
      units/{civ}_infantry_spearman_a
      units/{civ}_infantry_javelinist_b
      units/{civ}_cavalry_spearman_b
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_ballista_packed
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_scorpio_packed
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_oxybeles_packed
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_lithobolos_packed
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_ram
      units/{civ}_mechanical_siege_tower
    </Entities>

Disabled champions, since it's a middle-game building.

  <Identity>
    <Civ>rome</Civ>
    <GenericName>Entrenched Army Camp</GenericName>
    <SpecificName>Castrum Vallum</SpecificName>
    <Classes datatype="tokens">
      ArmyCamp
    </Classes>
    <RequiredTechnology>phase_town</RequiredTechnology>
    <Icon>structures/roman_camp.png</Icon>
    <Tooltip>Build anywhere on the map, even in enemy territory. Construct siege weapons and train citizen-soldiers. Heal garrisoned units slowly.</Tooltip>
    <History>Sometimes it was a temporary camp built facing the route by which the army is to march, other times a defensive or offensive (for sieges) structure. Within this gate the tents of the first centuries or cohorts are pitched, and the dragons (ensigns of cohorts) and other ensigns planted. The Decumane gate is directly opposite to the Praetorian in the rear of the camp, and through this the soldiers are conducted to the place appointed for punishment or execution.</History>
  </Identity>

Since this new strategy is based on numbers and seizing territories soon enought, their spawn must be faster. They can now be built in Phase Two.

Please tell me why u think, gimme some love (LOL)

[Eraser]

File is here If u want to test my changes

rome_army_camp.xml

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Game should implement ability like God Powers. That way something like Pax Romana can be a God Power casted by the player that makes a 5 minute ceasefire. They could use some of the aura code maybe (not sure), and then add a timer function to the schema. Just idea (and some feature creep, lol).

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Game should implement ability like God Powers. That way something like Pax Romana can be a God Power casted by the player that makes a 5 minute ceasefire. They could use some of the aura code maybe (not sure), and then add a timer function to the schema. Just idea (and some feature creep, lol).

We will name as Civilization powers 

[GunChleoc]

Another discussion on god powers:

 

[Eraser]

LOL it's not a god power, since you would consider Breton's bonus on agriculture a god power to bestow you with mutant farms that give more food.

About the auras, forget it, I am starting to think that a good balance fix would be just to boost the Castrum Vallum in order to make the Citizenship and Socii auras be more useful and competitive in front of other civ's stronger auras, since I've given them territory influence, so you can put your territory whenever you want and bonus you and your allies, making the ability worth for something more other than hiding.

The point is to break a bit the champion-based metagame making Rome win with it's original way, seizing territory and resources while, instead of making champions for everything, win with citizen soldiers boosted by the territory influence of your castrum vallums till you corner the opponent.

Again, here is the file you should change to test it, so you can judge if my idea of patching the Castrum Vallum is reasonable. The stages are:

1 -> Goto the files of the game: /binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/structures

2 -> Copy the original rome_army_camp.xml so you can restore it.

3 -> Replace it with this one below.

4 -> Run the game.

5 -.> When you're done, restore the original by replacing it again for the backup file you saved.

rome_army_camp.xml

[Eraser]

Of course don't forget to play local game xd. Multiplayer won't workl

[Lion.Kanzen]

Is more easy create a mini mod to test this.

[Eraser]

New ticket proposal:

1. Improve Castrum Vallum's abilities:

• Can be built in Age II. Can't recruit champions, so it needs to work as a militar colony but with harvest and decay handicaps.
• Can be built in ally territory. Now they really can be built anywhere.
• Have a very small territory influence. Make Socii and Citizenship something competitive.
• Can launch up to 40 arrows, one for each soldier garrisoned. 15 limit is a bit joke with 40 guys around.

9 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Is more easy create a mini mod to test this.

Yes, but create a mod to test just one file is not worth it.

[Eraser]

To end this idea, I attach some screenshots about how the gameplay would be.

Thx you all for the comments.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 hours ago, Eraser said:

LOL it's not a god power, since you would consider Breton's bonus on agriculture a god power to bestow you with mutant farms that give more food.

I use God Power as a reference or as they say a metaphor, like in Age of Mythology. In 0 A.D. it would not be a "God Power" but something more secular. Indeed though it would still have the same role as a God Power and it would be strategic choice when to use it.

[Eraser]

Came to the idea to this patch cause there are two types of civs in the game: late game and early game. Rome can't compete in early game rush with ptolemies or persians, since their javeliners are close-ranged and can't outrange towers or cc like camels and chariots do. Can't compete in late game champion battle with bretons, iberians or spartans, their champions are as expensive as theirs and don't have techs to boost them.

So I thought, if it's not an early win nor a late win why not make it control middle play? You would think that the fact that Castrum Vallum being able to create siege weapons in age 2 is too much, but since they are mid-ranged and need to be able to counter enemy mid-game expansion, they should be able to spawn siege weapons faster to kill enemy castles before the late games get too powerful, and the ability to finish early game civs after you survived to them.

12 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I use God Power as a reference or as they say a metaphor, like in Age of Mythology. In 0 A.D. it would not be a "God Power" but something more secular. Indeed though it would still have the same role as a God Power and it would be strategic choice when to use it.

PAX Romana (which I left behind now that my proposal make Rome auras have some more sense), doesn't activate whenever you like, like you would say a "God power", since it is activated since start, till age 3. In fact, it has two weak points:

-You can't rush either.

-The ceasefire is only for you, which means that they can rush on your allies, and you won't be able to help them.

[Tiber7]

8 hours ago, Eraser said:

-The ceasefire is only for you, which means that they can rush on your allies, and you won't be able to help them.

Bad idea. It's too long and you can't do anything else than watching to your economy for at least 10 turns. It would be better if you use it as a "God power" (and it shouldn't be less than 3 minutes nor more than 5 minutes).

EDIT: 10 minutes, not 10 turns. I was playing RTW recently

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Tiber7

[Eraser]

1 hour ago, Tiber7 said:

Bad idea. It's too long and you can't do anything else than watching to your economy for at least 10 turns. It would be better if you use it as a "God power" (and it shouldn't be less than 3 minutes nor more than 5 minutes).

 

Discarded the idea long time ago. What do you guys think about my redesign of the Army Camp as a middle-game win?

Edited September 18, 2016 by Eraser

[Tiber7]

It's a good idea unless it's not too strong and it can't produce champions (it can in the actual game no? I never ever build army camp because it's useless so I don't remember).

[Eraser]

 

1 hour ago, Tiber7 said:

It's a good idea unless it's not too strong and it can't produce champions (it can in the actual game no? I never ever build army camp because it's useless so I don't remember).

That's the reason I propose this: no one except a few n00bs like me use this, and this is supposed to be the ace building of Rome. And no, currently it can't produce champions, and in my last patch of it there's no champions, but citizen soldiers and siege weapons. Can build in age 2 cause this is nearly useless in age 3 (I only use it to garrison my champions before I send them).

Instead of spawning champions, doing exactly the same thing in the other 11 civs (exluding ptolemies that got an early, original strategy since they win without champs), I propose to win in age 2, not rushing, but with territorial expansion (very characteristic of Rome), supreme numbers and siege firepower.

[Tiber7]

28 minutes ago, Eraser said:

And no, currently it can't produce champions, and in my last patch of it there's no champions, but citizen soldiers and siege weapons. Can build in age 2 cause this is nearly useless in age 3 (I only use it to garrison my champions before I send them).

I think it's good idea it would make the army camp useful because it isn't for now.

[Eraser]

Made a poll about it

Please vote, thx