Finishing the Seleucid Faction ideas

[Lion.Kanzen]

Its possible they uses these archers? yes, but no against Romans.

its probably they use them when don't have a great extension.

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These statements as to the composition of the Seleucid army belong to the time of the dynasty's greatness. As its dominion contracted it could no ion, draw on such distant fields. The army probably became more exclusively Syrian, although the Taurus still furnished wild fighting men; and we have seen the Cretan mercenaries of Demetrius II take possession of the kingdom. But that the mass of the army of Antiochus Sidetes was drawn from Syria we are distinctly told; there was hardly a household unaffected by its loss. The armies of the Greek kings of the East were distinguished both from the older Greek armies and the Roman by their extern. magnificence. The commanders and the Macedonian cavalry wore, like the King, the national dress — kausia, chlamys and high-boots—which was, in fact, a sort of military uniform. "Nothing any-where but high-boots, nothing but men with the chlamys!" exclaim the Syracusan ladies who go to see a procession of troops in Alexandria. Thekausia of the officers was crimson. The cloaks were in many cases gorgeously embroidered.

neers-here drawn from non-Hellenic races in various parts of the world. We hear of Thracian slingers (Agrianes), of Mysian bowmen, Lydian-javelineers, Elymaean, Median and Persian bow-men, slingers from the hills of the Kurds (Kyrtioi, Kardakes).

But none of the peoples of Asia were more dreaded as enemies or valued as allies than the Gauls. Their large limbs, wild hair, enormous shields and swords, the chanting, howling, and dancing with which they moved to battle, the deafening rattle of their shields, all contributed to strike terror. Perhaps from the time when the house of Seleucus was excluded from Asia Minor it became harder and harder to get Gaulish mercenaries.. hear of none in the later wars whose theatre was Syria. But Antiochus IV was still able to show 5000 in the Daphne procession.

Lost of Mesopotamia.

The Seleucid king and army spent the winter feasting, hunting, and drinking (the Seleucids maintained the Macedonian tradition of heavy drinking). As with any time an army is quartered upon a population, tensions soon grew between the locals and the Syrian troops.

The new Parthian ruler, Phraates II, had not been idle; raising a new army while stirring up rebellion in the Seleucid occupied towns of Media. Hoping to further sew dissension amongst his foe, Phraates also released his long-held prisoner, Demetrius II, Antiochus' older brother, to return to Syria and reclaim the throne.

That winter (130–129 BCE), several Median towns rose in rebellion and attacked their Seleucid garrisons. Antiochus marched to support one such isolated garrison with only a small force (likely only his Royal Guards). In a barren valley, he was ambushed and killed by Phraates II and a large force of Parthians, which had entered the country without being detected. The last great Seleucid king died in battle, a fitting end for the heir of Seleucus I Nicator (the Victor). (One disputed account has Antiochus take his own life, after the battle is lost, to avoid capture by the Parthians.)

After Antiochus VII Sidetes, the Parthians regained the territory briefly lost, and the Seleucid realm was now restricted to Syria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_VII_Sidetes

Edited October 30, 2015 by Lion.Kanzen

[Stan`]

Tarantine cavalryman's shield :

SeleShield.7z

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

hele_round_c.dds already have dolphin tecture.

[Phalanx]

Still nice though.... So, what direction do you think we should take for the archer?

[Lion.Kanzen]

I'm thinking recruiting several types of archer, may be based in some strategical decisions

Cretan mercenary expensive but elite ( best archer) a bonus vs eastern

Iranian native but not effective agaist Persian units or eastern may be a bonus vs Greek

Scythian mercenary cheap good

Syrian good cheap ( the Syrian may be the first level have worst level of whole set of archer in basic ) because had enough experience

This can work selecting type units you want for your army. May be something like Carthage but unlocking with buildings or technologies.

[Phalanx]

well, the faction's page says it is a cav faction. This would be a lot of archers, and might de-balance it. I think, maybe two archers? Replace the light peltast with an archer? Or, it would have to be a one or the other, or two or the other situation, like the Traditional vs. Reform choice. Then we could use all of them.

Edited November 2, 2015 by SeleucidKing

[Lion.Kanzen]

But Micheal didn't know about these sucessor's archers because we made same mistake with Nubian archer.

[Phalanx]

But Micheal didn't know about these sucessor's archers because we made same mistake with Nubian archer.

I'm confused. So they ran into this problem with another faction?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Egyptians ( Ptolemies) both factions are like brothers born same time, and we don't found evidence to they use Nubian archer, they used Cretan, even Roman in Julius Caesar time, they were use Cretan.

[Phalanx]

ah.

[Lion.Kanzen]

ah.

http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18242&hl=%2Bremove+%2Bnubian

there is...

[Lion.Kanzen]

in context : Mysia is in northwest , there are the archer used in Raphia

https://books.google.com/books?id=sluPAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT129&lpg=PT129&dq=mysians+archer+-sean+seleucid&source=bl&ots=cOkHkwmYUc&sig=2-MvaOE1cL4_k7CjXpQQw8dbMU4&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAWoVChMIs9GKqrP1yAIVAjsmCh1lQQo2

https://books.google.hn/books?id=eqxipjRXCf4C&pg=PA809&lpg=PA809&dq=mysians+archer+-sean+seleucid&source=bl&ots=LnG1dZskls&sig=Ez6RNBv7PvsWfdcqTrjANSwURzo&hl=es-419&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=mysians%20archer%20-sean%20seleucid&f=false

The procession is described in detail by Polybios.
12A splendidly outfitted army of more than 40,000 infantry and about 10,000 cavalry marched at the head.
13 These weremainly heavy armed troops and guard regiments. More than half of the infantry consisted of Macedonian shock troops, including the elite regiments of the BronzeShields and the Silver Shields, both numbering 5,000 men, another 10,000 regularphalangites, and 5,000 soldiers wearing breast-plates and chain armour ‘after the Roman fashion’.
14 The remainder were light infantry from Kilikia and Mysia, and Celtic mercenaries from Galatia. There also marched 600
basilikoi paidesand 250 pairs of monomavcwi. The latter are usually understood to be ‘Roman’ gladiators but that isimprobable.
15 The cavalry included such guard regiments as the Royal Companions, the Royal Agema, and the Kataphrakts
all of them wearing parade dresses adorned with purple as well as citizens from the Syrian poleis, wearing gold crowns. 16

Next came athousand Central Asian horse archers.

17A thousand philoi, wearing purple mantles withgold embroideries, followed on horseback. Behind the
philoi were a thousand ‘pickedhorsemen’.18 At the end of the military parade came a hundred and forty horse-drawnchariots, two chariots drawn by elephants, and finally sixty-four fully armoured warelephants. The conspicuous presence of mercenaries from Asia Minor (sc. Mysians and Galatians) and elephants is remarkable. The Treaty of Apameia, concluded with theRomans in 188 by Epiphanes’ father Antiochos the Great, had forced the Seleukids togive up their claims to Asia Minor and forbade them the possession of elephants.Antiochos Epiphanes thus made it clear that he had no intention to comply with the

https://www.academia.edu/1665570/Antiochos_IV_and_the_Daphne_Festival

and they were included in Magnesia Battle 190 BC

https://books.google.hn/books?id=FzYDBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA143&lpg=PA143&dq=mysians+archer+-sean+seleucid&source=bl&ots=C8t11O63mo&sig=k5e2zHz2oai18rUqUaAGwQhkhFo&hl=es-419&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=mysians%20archer%20-sean%20seleucid&f=false

Edited November 3, 2015 by Lion.Kanzen

[Phalanx]

We could replace your idea if the Iranian with the Mysian heavy archer. You had an article that they were dressed in the Macedonian style, and being from that part of Asia Minor means that they would have a large greek influence, possibly leading to heavier armour. You could either just use them to replace say, the Syrian archer in the proposed new roster. The Mysian archers would be slower, and less damage dealing than the Cretans, but would have more armour, letting the player make a tactical decision, without overbalancing the faction

[Stan`]

What you could do, is make a proper design document ie updating a word document. Like the current ones in the wiki. With the shield variants and all

[Lion.Kanzen]

We have a design committe ? We need propose this change and Nubian archer too, as suggest @megamania in Egyptian document.

[Phalanx]

We have a design committe ?

I have seen some designers on this thread.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Some year ago in charge was Mythos Ruler (Micheal D Hafer) and they take these decisions he made based in our references, the design concept. But now are few team members and Council of Modders and other forum players/ habitual members, the experienced player don't participate here, I don't know why.

[Phalanx]

Hmm.... That is unfortunate.

[Phalanx]

Is there some possible way that we can get the new roster (the full one suggested above [ with the interchange of Syrian archer with Mysian] ) into Alpha 19? Maybe not entirely finish unique visuals yet, work with what is already there, but get the units in the game so they can be tested? I might be being a bit pushy here, and I apologize, but I am quite eager to see the changes to the game's overall civ balance, and run through more combat tests in Atlas.

[Phalanx]

Actually, nvm. It would be better to wait, to give the devs time. Ignore that last post.

[Stan`]

A19... prolly not A20 surely.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Needs a team's Leader evaluation, to introduce new changes and mostly of team member convinced about this, that why many times we try implements things in a mod.

[Phalanx]

I was thinking about attempting to do that by myself.... Dont know if I can.

[Lion.Kanzen]

First make a document share here ( PDF ) and may be Desing committe will be considerate this, you must try to be objective for balance reasons.

[Phalanx]

Sorry for being incompetent, but what should the PDF have?