zzippy Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Hi folks.Scythe already made a ticket for the syntagma bug.My question:Will there be a fix soon, means a 16.1 version of 0ad, or will we have to wait until a17 is done? And if so, are there any plans to release a17 soon?For me a16 MP games are unplayable if a player chooses a civilisation with syntagma formation enabled. The "30m invisible lances" (as scythe described them in the lobbychat) are a gamekiller imho.So, what will happen?zzippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niektb Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I'm in support for a 0.0.16.1 release (even though that is not really common in a alpha stage)There are several annoying bugs that have sneaked in and renders the gameplay to a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av93 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I agree.Also you could fix the history screen, thebans shouldn't appear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Hi folks.Scythe already made a ticket for the syntagma bug.My question:Will there be a fix soon, means a 16.1 version of 0ad, or will we have to wait until a17 is done? And if so, are there any plans to release a17 soon?For me a16 MP games are unplayable if a player chooses a civilisation with syntagma formation enabled. The "30m invisible lances" (as scythe described them in the lobbychat) are a gamekiller imho.So, what will happen?zzippy 3 or 4 months for the next. Never they do it a version x.1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanderd17 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 That should be fixed now (it would have been a huge help if someone would have noticed it during the testing phase, the issue should have been there for months).But I don't think we'll do an A16.1 release (that would be version 0.0.16.1). As you said, it's quite unusual to get a sub-alpha.It looks like because of the lobby, this release hasn't been tested very well. Everyone just kept playing lobby games. While otherwise, (in my estimate) half of the played games in Multiplayer were SVN games.I guess we need to learn from this experience, and ask lobby players to install the SVN to play games about a month or two before we release A17. Maybe the syntagma bug will even help us getting testers 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoekeloosNL Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 You can upload a hot-fixed version of Alpha 16 with some bug fixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yves Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 We had similar discussions after most releases. In many cases there were even bugs that made the game unplayable for some players.IMO it still doesn't make sense to release an Alpha bugfix release. As Sander said, there was plenty of time for testing before the release. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzippy Posted May 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 So, in your opinion, it makes sense to play with/vs syntagma formation? You must be kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Devs , the fixed file can be added into public zip? May be that is the solutionWhst OS use you zzipy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanderd17 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 They don't deal extra damage. But it's distributed more efficiently. If their target is killed with only a part of the attacks the formation has available (f.e. 10 of the 20 pikemen are enough to kill an archer). The other attacks (of the other 10 pikemen) are distributed to other near targets without checking the range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzippy Posted May 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) @ Lion.Kanzen.. linux. Why? Edited May 19, 2014 by zzippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 @ Lion.Kanzen.. linux. Why? to help you, Calm down , we are trying to help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzippy Posted May 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Erm, sorry, there is nothing to calm down. I already rebuilt my svn where this bug is fixed, np. I am just saying that gameplay is a mess now* in a16, and wanted to know if there will be a solution before a17.*eg: impossible to send swordmen vs pikemen, since they are killed before they reach them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yves Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I agree that this is a bug, but a bugfix release is not as simple as it sounds.Fixing this changes the simulation behaviour, which means multiplayer games between patched and unpatched versions aren't possible because they would go out of sync.This means we need separate multiplayer lobbies for the 16.0 and 16.1 release. All Linux distributions who have already made Alpha 16 packages need to adjust them.In addition I don't think it's a very serious bug.It can be abused in some cases, but is not completely overpowered. You could also agree not to (ab)use this bug with your opponent. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumo Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Well, we could release a 0.16.1 version together with the OS X release? So everyone has the same version... But I agree with sander as well, we need to test this a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yves Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Well, we could release a 0.16.1 version together with the OS X release? So everyone has the same versionThe plan was to apply the fixes for OS X to the same version we used for Alpha 16.Because the fixes do not require simulation behaviour changes, the OS X release will be compatible with the Alpha 16 versions on Windows and Linux.That means the OS X package release has no influence on the decision if we want a 16.1 release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNcog Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Install SVN? It's basically A17 in the works and it's got the phalanx bug and other issues fixed. I've been told to install it and I've got it working now. If playing vs phalanx bug is that bad to you why not just play SVN? Or is SVN some sort of closed beta?It's not complicated at all to set up, if you're on windows that is (don't know about other two platforms). Would someone like me to write a quick guide on how to set up SVN easily? It can be done in 5 easy steps, though you have to re-download the game and basically have a second install of 0 AD on your computer. I haven't yet figured out how to compile stuff yet so I just set aside 5 Gb on my HDD for 0ADSVN.There are less people on SVN than there are on A16 though, I guess. You can ask people in A16 lobby to play SVN with you. However if the phalanx bug annoys you that much you can call people out for using it. It's a game-breaking bug indeed because well-distributed ranged damage done at range is more efficient than what other units do by a very long shot. I've had my CC down in less than 10s with that and my units were unable to kill spearmen fast enough to prevent that (with the other player thinking he was somehow better than I was because he was exploiting the bug, ouch). Also when in cover mode (or whatever it's called), ranged units can't attack. This is almost as serious an issue as well distributed damage. It'd be a design flaw to completely reduce ranged damage. I think 50%+ or something better pierce armor while in this mode would be more pertinent, though I'm not sure where the balance/design team is on that aspect. Edited June 5, 2014 by iNcog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumo Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 @iNcog SVN is a accessible to everyone. SVN changes daily however, so it isn't easy to play with someone else and make sure everyone has the same version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNcog Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) It can be updated as far as I know. I'll right the guide, brb.edit: here we are http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18782#entry293198 Edited June 5, 2014 by iNcog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzippy Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yes, svn is a good solution without a bugfix 16.1 .. Want to add here that running both (a16 + a17 svn) lobbies simultanously is possible with different accounts. Just ask one of the mods when creating a 2nd account and mark it as your svn account somehow. Eg I use z and z_svn, Tux has SVNTUX ..ATM its pretty lonely in the svn lobby, so please join. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niektb Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yes, svn is a good solution without a bugfix 16.1 .. Want to add here that running both (a16 + a17 svn) lobbies simultanously is possible with different accounts. Just ask one of the mods when creating a 2nd account and mark it as your svn account somehow. Eg I use z and z_svn, Tux has SVNTUX ..ATM its pretty lonely in the svn lobby, so please join.Ehm, I'm able to log in with the same account + password on both lobbies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzippy Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yes, but not simultanously. Then you would need that 2nd account .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radagast. Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Also when in cover mode (or whatever it's called), ranged units can't attack. This is almost as serious an issue as well distributed damage. It'd be a design flaw to completely reduce ranged damage. I think 50%+ or something better pierce armor while in this mode would be more pertinent, though I'm not sure where the balance/design team is on that aspect.I understand what you mean, though isn't that realism?In real life it's pretty hard to shoot someone in the testudo formation in 'cover mode'. The chance to do any damage might be close to zero for the back rows.If you want to do something against it, then do what you would do in reality: break the formation (in reality it'd be pretty hard for the soldiers in the formation to throw something at you when you approach, though I'm not sure if that's true for 0AD too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzippy Posted June 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) I understand what you mean, though isn't that realism?In real life it's pretty hard to shoot someone in the testudo formation in 'cover mode'. The chance to do any damage might be close to zero for the back rows.If you want to do something against it, then do what you would do in reality: break the formation (in reality it'd be pretty hard for the soldiers in the formation to throw something at you when you approach, though I'm not sure if that's true for 0AD too)...sure, it sounds realistic that testudo reduces pierce attack. But: - how to balance this? Other civs would need a similar advantage. - testudo is a defensive formation, but it also has the same attack advantage (bug) as syntagma or phalanx. Realistically attack should decrease when in testudo. Edited June 7, 2014 by zzippy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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