Faction: The Chinese

[Ayakashi]

NOTE: THIS IS A REVISION OF THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL BASED ON FURTHER RESEARCH AND GAMEPLAY CONSIDERATIONS. THE FACTION WILL NOW ALSO COVER THE FIVE DYNASTIES AND TEN KINGDOMS PERIOD AS WELL AS THE TANG DYNASTY, EXTENDING ITS SPAN TO FROM 618 TO 960AD. PLEASE NOTE THAT MANY ELEMENTS IN THIS PROPOSAL ARE INCOMPLETE AND MAY CHANGE DUE TO ADDITIONAL RESEARCH AND GAMEPLAY CONSIDERATIONS. SPECIAL THANKS TO WOLFLANCE FOR HIS INPUT.

FACTION PROPOSAL: THE CHINESE

Map From Wikipedia

BRIEF HISTORY

Tang Dynasty (618-907AD):

The Tang Dynasty is commonly regarded as a golden age of Chinese civilization where great strides were achieved in science and the arts and military might flourished. The most populous nation in the world, it was home to 50-80 million people and its capital Chang'an was the largest city on earth at the time. At its greatest extant its territory covered as far south as modern Vietnam and as far west as present day Kazakhstan, drawing in a cosmopolitan society of various different cultures. The Tang exerted strong influences to and fought against contemporary kingdoms in Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Tibet, and Central Asia.

Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms (907-960AD):

The collapse of the Tang Dynasty saw a time of great political upheaval in which 5 dynasties succeeded one another in the north and more than 12 warring kingdoms establish over the span of a few decades. This period saw some of the most important advancements in military technology in history. The battle of Langshan Jiang in 919AD saw one of the fist documented use of gunpowder in warfare.

GAMEPLAY

Being the most advanced nation of the medieval world grants the Chinese notable technological and economic advantages. The Chinese have a powerful well rounded military consisting of strong heavy infantry and fast cavalry backed by foreign auxiliaries of nomadic warriors. The Chinese are unique in being the only faction with access to primitive gunpowder units in part 1.

CIV BONUSES:

* Houses accommodate 15 pop each from the start, upgradable to 20, allowing the player to increase population quickly, however they require slightly more room

* Most technologically advanced faction: which means many technology, blacksmith and agricultural upgrades are available cheaper, earlier and take less time

* Multicultural: access to various auxiliary or mercenary factions as well as research that grants trade bonuses

WEAKNESSES

* Champions units can be trained only from the palace, and you can only build one palace, so think carefully where you want to place it

SPECIAL STRUCTURES

[buddhist Temple] Trains monks. Built in pagoda uncovers fog of war over a wide area

[Daoist Temple] Has healing aura. Shady Daoist priests are hard at work on an elixir of immortality there. Let's hope their formula don't prove to be a but 'explosive'

[Confucian Academy] Research hub for economic and technology upgrades

[Palace] Required for and trains champion units and heroes (except Ashina Simo)

[Turkic Camp] Trains Turkic auxiliary units and the hero Ashina Simo. Can be built in neutral territory

[Mongolian Camp] Trains Proto-Mongolic units. Can be built in neutral territory

[Korean Embassy] Trains Korean auxiliary units from the Silla Kingdom

[Tibetan Embassy] Trains Tibetan units

[Wonder] The Giant Wild Goose Pagoda

SPECIAL UPGRADES:

[Gunpowder Formula] Adds gunpowder weaponry to certain existing units. Unlocks Dragon Boat and Grenadiers

[block Printing] Increase Daoist Temple healing aura size. Increase Monk healing range. All other temple upgrades becomes cheaper and take less time

[silk Road] Trade grants bonus metal

[健兒/Jiang Er System] Dissolves your Fu Bing Institution: ending conscription. All citizen soldiers become full time volunteer soldiers making them stronger but can no longer build, farm or gather resources. New civilians you recruit are now of mixed gender and they gain the ability to build military structures

UNITS

(Open spoiler box for details and illustrations)

府兵/Fu Bing/Provincial Army (Citizen Soldiers):

Citizen soldiers. They are conscripted from farmers and families of landlords who undergo military training, serving once every few years and farm when off duty; and are remobilized in times of emergency. Fu Bing are backbone of your fighting force, and like all citizen soldiers can build structures and farm. Note that you have the option to turn them all into stronger 'semi-champion' units through the 'Jiang Er' upgrade though they will loose the ability to do anything else other than fight.

[戰鋒/Spearmen]

**[火槍/Fire lance] Late game upgrade for Spearmen. Now have bamboo tubes that shoots spraying projectiles at short range attached to spear

[弓手/Archers] Anti light ranged unit

[孥兵/Crossbowmen] Anti heavy ranged unit

**[陌刀/Mo Dao] Upgrades all archers and crossbowmen by equipping them with the Mo Dao: an anti cavalry longsword consisting of 50% blade and 50% handle; giving them a secondary melee attack

[跳盪/Shock Troops] Melee infantry carrying shields and assorted short weapons such as swords, axes and maces.

[飛火/Grenadier] Throws crude gunpowder incendiary grenades. Can attack whilst garrisoned

[馬軍/Light Cavalry]

禁軍/Jin Jun/Forbidden Army (Champions):

Champion units. Imperial guards tasked with defending the capitals. Only the strongest fighters among the the descendents Tang Dynasty pioneers were allowed to be bestowed with such honor.

[神策軍/Shen Ce Jun/ Divine Strategy Army] Elite heavy halberd infantry

[神武騎/Shen Wu Tien Chi/Divine Martial Cavalry] Elite Mo Dao cavalry

[龍武騎/Long Wu Jun/Dragon Martial Cavalry] Elite heavy armoured cavalry. Cavalry archer and lancer rolled into one

AUXILIARIES

The Tang can recruit 2 out of 4 possible auxiliary/mercenary factions per game

Turks (Gokturks, Uyghurs, Karluks, cavalry specialists)

[Horse Archer] Can shoot any direction whilst moving

[Heavy Cavalry Lancer]

Proto-Mongols (Khitans, Tuobas, Ranged and light cavalry specialists)

[Horse Archer] Can shoot any direction whilst moving

[Light Sword Cavalry]

Koreans (Silla dynasty, Heavy cavalry specialists)

[Cataphract]

[Hwarang] Elite Korean horse archer

Tibetans (Heavy infantry specialists)

[Heavy Spearman]

[Heavy Swordsman]

[Cataphract]

CIVILIAN UNITS

[Female Citizen]

**[Male Citizen] After Jiang Er System upgrade any new civilians you recruit from now on are of mixed gender and they gain the ability to build military structures

[Monk] Healer

[Camel Caravan]

[Fishing Boat]

[Trade Junk]

POSSIBLE HEROES

[尉遲敬德/Yuchi Jingde] Iron whip cavalry hero. Famous Xianbei General of early Tang. Immortalized after death as one of the Door Gods in Chinese Folk Religion

[阿史那思摩/Ashina Simo aka Qilibi Khan]

Turkic Cavalry Hero. Famous Gokturk Hero and one of the top generals of the first Tang Emperor. All Turk units gains extra attack and speed as long as he is alive

[郭子儀/Guo Ziyi]

Cavalry Lancer Hero. Reputed as one of ancient China's greatest generals who famously ended the devastating Anshi Rebellion. Immortalized after death as the God of Wealth in Chinese Folk Religion. Has special aura that inspires surrounding troops giving them bonus attack.

[李嗣業/Li Siye]

Modao Cavalry Hero. Famous general known for his campaigns against the Tibetans and his participation in the Battle of Talas against the Abbasid Caliphate. Said to be an imposing figure over 2 meters tall and a master of the Mo Dao

SIEGE UNITS

[連孥/Liang Nu Siege Crossbow]

Deployable siege crossbow that shoots several units at once. Dealing splash damage

[雙弓弩/Shuangong Nu Siege Crossbow]

Deployable double bowed crossbow with slow rate of fire. Devastating against most units

[四腳砲/Sijao Trebuchet]

Deployable anti building traction trebuchet operated by a large team of men

**[Gunpowder Upgrade]Can now throws incendiary or poison gas bombs against units

NAVY

[蒙衝/Mong Chong/Covered Swooper]

A medium-small rowing boat with all sides boarded up giving it good armour against arrows. Crossbow ports at the side allow it to fire arrows at enemies. Used for deploying beachhead infantry assaults so garrisoning extra archers will not add to its firepower

**[Paddle Ship]

Upgrades the Covered Swooper with human powered paddle wheels. Increases speed, armour and unit capacity

[戰船/War Junk]

Large sailing warship. Can garrison units for additional firepower

[樓船/Tower Ship]

Siege ship with an on board trebuchet. Primarily for attacking structures and defenses. Garrison archers inside or escort with other ships to help it defend against enemy ships.

**[Gunpowder Upgrade] Can now throw incendiary or poison gas bombs against units

[龍舟/Dragon Ship]

Galley type ship with a carved dragon head at the front that functions as a flamethrower.

POSSIBLE SCENARIO/CAMPAIGN & EASTER EGG UNITS AND CHARACTERS

[武則天/Wu Zetian] The first and only empress in Chinese history

[安祿山/An Lushan] A Gokturk/Sogdian general who began the infamous Anshi Rebellion that marked the decline of the Tang Dynasty

[節度使/Jiedushi] Cavalry 'mini' hero/general. Has aura that gives surrounding units bonus attack.

[少林武僧/Shaolin Monks] Stupidly strong despite using only bare hands and sticks 'cause why the hell not?

ORIGINAL PROPOSAL:

I guess this is created as a follow up to Le Druide's Japanese Proposal. But if far eastern civs are to be included at all then the Chinese can't be overlooked on the basis that in this time period it is arguably the strongest and most populous empire at the time and that it present an oppurtunity to include some very unique units.

Brief History:

The Tang Dynasty lasted from 618-907 and is commonly regarded as the high point of Chinese civilization where culture, scientific achievements and military might flourished. It was home to 50-80 million people and Chang'an, it's capital, was the largest city on earth at the time. The Tang exerted strong influences to Korea, Japan and Vietnam, fought against the Turkic Nomads, the Khitans and Tibet, and had trading and diplomatic ties with Persia.

Gameplay:

The Tang is catered for the turtle player. During early and mid game Tang units consists mainly of lightly armored citizen soldiers which are compensated by being very cheap to produce and backed up by defensive bonuses such as stronger walls, towers and early access to the fortress. After aging up to the final age however, the Tang would gain access to very powerful but expensive champion units and the only gunpowder units in part 1 which makes them a formidable foe to contend with.

Civ Bonuses:

* Houses are bigger and accommodates 15 pop each, allowing the Tang player to quickly increase pop

* 20% (depending on balance) bonus hp for walls, fortresses and towers

* All technology research are cheaper and take less time

Units(Not a complete list, admittedly more research is needed):

府兵/Fu Bing/Provincial Army

These are the Tang's equivalent of citizen soldiers. Militia consisting of conscripted farmers. Donning leather laminar armor they are weak but can be trained quickly and cheaply. Trained from the military academy at stage 1, Tang's equivalent of Barracks.

Zhuge Nu Crossbowmen (repeating crossbowmen, fast rate of fire but less damage and short ranged, very effective against groups of foot soldiers when massed)

Dao Swordsmen (sword and shield)

Spear Militia

Fire Lancer (earliest precursor to the gun, like spear militia but attached their spears are bamboo tubes loaded with gunpowder that propels several pellets towards an enemy at short range. causes light splash damage so is most effective when massed against groups of infantry. available after building an alchemist at final stage)

禁軍/Jin Jun/Forbidden Army

Equivalent to champion units. Full time, career soldiers that clad in steel "mountain pattern" armor are available late game that are very strong but also very expensive to train. Trained from both the Palace and fortress during final stage but requires a palace to unlock.

Imperial Crossbowmen (armed with a single shot recurved crossbow which means longer range, better accuracy and damage, works like a sniper, also armed with a short jian straight sword so they can also melee)

Imperial Swordsmen (sword and shield, high hp but slow)

Podao Infantry (versatile unit armed with a glaive like polearm)

Zhanmadao Swordsmen (strong anti cavalry soldier armed with a long @#$% two handed sword)

Cavalry:

Scout Cavalry

Cavalry Archer (armed with recurved composite bow)

Heavy Cavalry (wears steel armor and armed with a lance, similar to a cataphract, Stage 3)

Mercenary calvary that needs you to build a Yurt to unlock:

Turkic Mercenary (stronger but more expensive calvary archer)

Turkic Camel Calvary (powerful, well rounded melee cavalry)

Navy:

Sampan (fishing boat)

Sea Hawk (large fortified rowing ships boarded up on all sides giving it high hp, can garrison archers for firepower)

Paddle Ship (small but very fast ships moved by treadmill powered paddles with a traction trebuchet on board)

War Junk (large sailing ships with siege crossbows)

Flamethrower Junk (medium sailing ship with a flamethrower, available after building an alchemist)

Fire Ship

Tower Ship

Siege Units:

Whirlwind Catapult (traction trebuchet with fast fire rate but shorter range than western trebuchets)

Chungzi Nu (a large triple bowed siege crossbow with extremely long range and accuracy but slow rate of fire)

Support/Trained from monastery:

和尚/He Sheng/Buddhist Monks

武僧/Wu Sheng/Warrior Monks

Unique Structures:

Palace (unlocks Jin Jun units, available at final stage)

Yurt (trains steppe nomad mercenary cavalry, available at stage 2)

Confucian Academy (a kind research hub for non military upgrades e.g: block printing allows better exchange rate at market, magnetic compass to increase ship speed by 10%)

Alchemist, available at final stage, unlocks the following units:

Grenadiers (infantry who throw crude paper gunpowder bombs, trained form military academy or fortress)

Flamethrower (gunpowder based flamethrower similar to the Byzantine Greek Fire. however unlike Greek Fire it emits a constant stream of fire shot through a double piston syringe. extremely effective against everything except stone walls and fortresses/castles at short range, trained from fortress)

Wonder: Great Wild Goose Pagoda

Some Chinese buildings should be interchangeable with any possible Japanese or Korean factions due to cultural influence.

The Tang will probably be succeeded by the Song in Part 2.

Concept art will follow!

Edited June 27, 2015 by Ayakashi

[Loki1950]

And did not the Tang have folded steel as if I remember correctly the yamamoto stole it from them,It may have been an earlier dynasty though.

Enjoy the Choice

[niektb]

Nice work so far!

(The Tang Dynasty was already on my wishlist: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17862&p=291551)

Now that the first gunpowder units start to appear we need to think how they would behave.

[sanderd17]

Pretty much like archers. but with faster, more precise and smaller projectiles, a longer loading time, a different loading/firing animation.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ok niekt may be we need and animation here.

==========

Some pics

Edited May 19, 2014 by Lion.Kanzen

[Le Druide Gaulois]

The Chinese can't be left out, given their power and technology, and I hope to see some sketches soon, but I think the idea of making some generic buildings that look the same both for Chinese and Japanese is really bad, since Japanese architecture started to reflex local tastes since late Heian Period. Japan indeed imported Tang culture, but even though some buildings looked similar, they weren't the same. If we are to make them similar, make them only similar. Let us not succumb to the lameness of most RTS's! One of the great things of 0 A.D. (and I hope this is maintained in Millenium) is the total uniqueness of every faction. Anyway, I'd love to play with the Tang.

[Radagast.]

Indeed, no mix/generic buildings. Instead only the as close as possible placeholder entities until we have the unique ones ready. Is this something we can build upon? We are open to suggestions.

Thx for the initiative for the Tang.

The proposal of Sander sounds the way to go for gun powder units. Canons and stone throwers which we have in the Medieval timeframe too, could follow this procedure also (bigger projectiles, cannon balls / stones/rocks ... ok, those could reuse the catapults/bolt shooters. Instead the Indian mounted cannons on the back of camels is more relevant to the above outlined procedure, instead of the unit, it's just a camel which needs new cannon-prop + animation then.).

[Ayakashi]

Lol sorry my bad about the shared generic buildings then! I just thought since this is the period when Chinese & Japanese are most similar it somewhat justifies being a but lazy about keeping everything distinct to save time & effort. But yeah as Le Druide said we don't want that lame thing so many other rts does so keeping thing unique is the better way to go!

Anyways Here's the concept for the Civic Centre:

[Le Druide Gaulois]

Ayakashi, great drawing, as always! I hope to see more of those. Do you plan making the houses thouse quadrangular structures with courtyards ?

[niektb]

Just wondering, Ayakashi, should we list some of your 'concept sketches for fun'-drawings here?

[Ayakashi]

I don't mind at all. Though I plan to make Han and Tang stuff look very different because they are. And Song/early Ming stuff part 2 of 1000AD in the future as well. I'll probably do some Japanese concepts too!

@Le Druide Gaulois: I'm seriously considering that, though the challenge will be to not make them look too big to make base building a pain lol!

[niektb]

Pretty much like archers. but with faster, more precise and smaller projectiles, a longer loading time, a different loading/firing animation.

But would it be possible to show traces like in AoE3?

Edited May 21, 2014 by niektb

[sanderd17]

If you make it a particle emitter, you will have a trace visual.

[Ayakashi]

Possibly base the emblem on this:

[Usac]

Believe it or not, crossbows were surprisingly effective against cavalry. Sure, the great wall kept Mongolian civilizations like the Xiongnu away, but crossbows helped against mounted armies as well.

[wolflance]

I would like to add something to this topic, namely period artworks:

Tang Dynasty medium cavalry (armored horsemen on unarmored horse) from the mural of DungHuang

Tang Dynasty spearmen and sword-and-shieldmen during training, also from DungHuang.

Tang Dynasty guard in armor, from the mural in the tomb of the Princess Changle.

Figurines of Tang Dynasty heavy cavalry.

Another one from Dunhuang, showing unarmored horsemen armed with spear and shield.

Unarmored guards, mural of the Tomb of Prince Li Xian.

Also do note that Glaive-type polearms like PoDao or GuanDao or Zanmadao, as well as siege weapons like Triple-bow arcuballista or Whirlwind catapult, and the double-piston flamethrower, are from later Song Dynasty.

Chu Ko Nu or repeating crossbow, although famous, were never used as standard military equipment.

Tang army mostly use spear (Qiang 槍) and cavalry lance (Shuo 槊) and Halberd (Ji 戟). Tang period Ji are sometimes translate into "half-trident", see the first picture posted by Lion.Kanzen for reference.

There's also a polearm called Mo Dao (陌刀), but no one is certain what it looks like.

AAAND also, paper armor. Aww yeah.

According to Xin Tang Shu （《新唐书.兵志》）, the provincial army （Fu Bing 府兵) were divided into FIVE units:

Bu Bing (步兵, infantry)

Yue Qi （越骑, horse archer）

Wu Qi （武骑, shock/melee cavalry）

Pai Zuan Shou （排䂎手, spear and shield men）

Bu She （步射, infantry archer）.

Records from Tang Tong Dian 《唐通典》however divided the provincial army into seven different roles:

Nu Shou （弩手, crossbowmen）

Gong Shou （弓手, bowmen）

Zhu Dui （驻队, weapon-bearers/non-combatants. They will hold the bow and crossbows so the archers can then participate in melee combat with heavy staffs and polearms）

Zhan Feng Dui（战锋队, melee infantry intended to hold the line. Probably armed with spears and other polearms)

Ma Jun （马军 cavalry）

Tiao Dang （跳荡, shock troops. No mention of equipment but generally believed to be armed with sword-and-shield).

Qi Bing （奇兵, special troops intended for ambush and/or flanking attack. Seems to be lightly equipped.)

*The Fu Bing were not randomly conscripted misfit, but semi-permanent army equipped by the central government. A soldier provides his own sword, bow and arrows, shield, and short spear, while heavier equipment such as armor, horse armor, long spear, cavalry lance and crossbow were state-provided. They still have to plant crops and build stuffs though. The Fu Bing system collapsed during the reign of Emperor Xuanzong, and was replaced with a contract-based recruitment system.

*Depending on the periods and civlilzations, Tang cavalry might (emphasize might) have an definite edge over some factions in the form of stirrups.

There were many different Forbidden Armies throughout the Tang Dynasty, so it is very hard to 'generalize'. I think a Champion cavalry unit could be the best bet. Preferably a champion horse archer unit as well.

Auxiliary

The Tang Empire employs a lot of foreigners, from various Turkic tribes, to Uyghurs, to Karluks, to Tibetan, to (some) Silla Korean. The provincial army was itself a mixed race army, and the Forbidden Army consists of mostly foreign people (at first, later the number was swelled with locals). A lot of high-ranking officers were foreigners as well.

Outside of the structure of regular army, the foreigners also formed into irregular, auxiliary unit, raised during war times.

Edited May 14, 2015 by wolflance

[wolflance]

Tang Dynasty Siege Weapon:

Jiao Che Nu （绞车弩）: Winch-spanned siege crossbow

Lei Shi Che （擂石车）: Traction Trebuchet. Also called Pao Che 抛车.

Tang Dynasty Navy:

Trade ship was called shāng bó （商舶） .

Fishing ship is yú chuán （渔船）

(Large) Tower ship or Lou Chuan （楼船）

(Medium) Warship or Dou Jian （斗舰）

(Small) Armored War boat or Meng Chong （艨艟）

(Small) Small Warship or Zou Ge（走舸）

(Small) Scout Ship or You Ting （游艇）

(Small or medium) Sea Falcon or Hai Hu （海鹘）. Has leeboard, hence the name.

(Special) Pai Jian （拍舰）a melee warship using Pai Gan*（拍竿）

(Special) Huo fang （火舫） flamethrower ship.

(Special Shui Che （水车） paddle-wheel warship. Also called Che Lun Zhou（车轮舟）. My bad, these are warships from earlier period. Got it mixed up. Do note that similar or better technology were certainly used on Tang warship.

*The Pai Gan is a heavy ship-to-ship weapon which is operated like you would operate a drawbridge, only with gigantic battering ram instead of bridge. Once released, the battering ram will smash into enemy ship in a downward swing motion, hopefully sinking it.

*Another weapon seemingly unique to the Tang Navy is the use of molten iron. Due to pig/cast iron (produced by blast furnace) having lower melting point than pure-or-wrought iron, it can be melted easily. Pour the molten iron into a container, then trebuchet to the enemy, profit.

This is a model of a Sui Dynasty Wu Ya Chuan （五牙船, literally "Five-fanged ship"）which is a five-storey Tower Ship. Those weird-looking big stick poking out from the front, side and back of the ship are the Pai Gan I mentioned.

The Wu Ya Chuan measured 54.6m length and 15m wide, with forty oars (twenty on each side, which is very few for a ship of this size.). It has a crew of 800.

Song Dynasty Tower Ship, with and without trebuchet. Tang Dynasty version should be identical.

(Top) Left: Meng Chong （艨艟） Right: Dou Jian （斗舰）

(Bottom) Left Zou Ge （走舸） Right: Hai Gu （海鹘）

Song Dynasty drawings, but Tang Dynasty version should be identical. (By the time of Song Dynasty, these warships were gradually phased out, being replaced by paddle-wheel warship and sail ship.)

Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Gunpowder Weapon:

Flying Fire or "Fei Huo" （飞火）: Used to bring (burn) down a fortress gate. Song Dynasty military author Xu Dong （许洞）deduced that this weapon "could be gunpowder-tipped ballista bolt or catapult-launched bomb".

Fire Lance

Grenade

Huo You（火油）: Greek fire.

Edited February 28, 2015 by wolflance

[niektb]

Woah, that's a huge navy list! (In 0 A.D. a civ normally has 3, maybe 4, warships and you come with 9 )

Anyway, thanks for the info!

[wolflance]

Woah, that's a huge navy list! (In 0 A.D. a civ normally has 3, maybe 4, warships and you come with 9 )

Anyway, thanks for the info!

You're welcome. . I tried to list everything I could find, but of course it is up to the Modders to decide which one to put in.

[Ayakashi]

@wolflance

I admit. The op that I wrote ain't very accurate and a lot of this comes from the Five Dynasties & Ten Kingdoms period. Thanks for the corrections. However, if I'm correct that part 1 is to be set between 500-1000 AD would it be a good idea to just call this faction "China" and base it on the Sui-Tang and ending at the Five Dynasties & Ten Kingdoms at late game? This will allow it to incorporate some cool units that occurred not long after the fall of the Tang but would be too "outdated" to be saved for part 2, such as the "Dragon Ship" which some people reckon was the first use of the Chinese flamethrower in warfare (Battle of Lanshanjiang 919). It would also justify the firelance as they were in use by 950 AD at the latest.

On another note. Should the Chinese faction from part 2 start from the Song and end with early Ming? The Song fell by 1279, which leaves out 221 years worth of interesting potential units. Like Zheng He's treasure fleet for example (1371-1433).

I am thinking of completely overhauling this faction proposal based on this notion, with more historically accurate units.

[wolflance]

@wolflance

I admit. The op that I wrote ain't very accurate and a lot of this comes from the Five Dynasties & Ten Kingdoms period. Thanks for the corrections. However, if I'm correct that part 1 is to be set between 500-1000 AD would it be a good idea to just call this faction "China" and base it on the Sui-Tang and ending at the Five Dynasties & Ten Kingdoms at late game? This will allow it to incorporate some cool units that occurred not long after the fall of the Tang but would be too "outdated" to be saved for part 2, such as the "Dragon Ship" which some people reckon was the first use of the Chinese flamethrower in warfare (Battle of Lanshanjiang 919). It would also justify the firelance as they were in use by 950 AD at the latest.

On another note. Should the Chinese faction from part 2 start from the Song and end with early Ming? The Song fell by 1279, which leaves out 221 years worth of interesting potential units. Like Zheng He's treasure fleet for example (1371-1433).

I am thinking of completely overhauling this faction proposal based on this notion, with more historically accurate units.

I agree with you for Part I, which should be easier to implement (Main contribution from Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period would be the catapult-launched incendiary bombs, the fire lance, and flamethrower). I will modify my post accordingly.

Part II is...hard. That period saw the transition from Infantry-based Song dynasty to entirely cavalry-based Mongol Yuan, to (somewhat) balanced early Ming dynasty.

Edited September 29, 2014 by wolflance

[Ayakashi]

Or maybe just leave the Yuan for a Mongol faction? The way I see it will allow the Mongols to have buildings and a navy.

[niektb]

What would you do with the Mongol ruling under Kublai Khan? That lasted a couple of decades...

[wolflance]

That could (sort of ) work. Early Ming are somewhat similar to Song Dynasty, at least appearance wise.

Edited September 29, 2014 by wolflance

[wolflance]

I just realized that part 1 of the Millennium mod will encompass timeline from 476 AD till 962 AD, which covers Southern & Northern Dynasties, Sui Dynasty, Tang Dynasty , and Five Dynasties & Ten Kingdoms period...which would be crazy if we were to lump all of these into one faction.