A few Random Questions related to Modding

[Veridagorin]

Are there any data editing tutorials i could read?

is it easy/possible to make a unit switch between weapons like a bow and sword?

is it easy/possible to make a unit be able to climb a tree and jump to the next tree?

Can i make a unit that can knock down enemy units?

edit 1 more question can i give heroes/units a destructive ability like demolish building that takes time to recharge before it can be used again?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Veridagorin

[Lion.Kanzen]

Are there any data editing tutorials i could read?

is it easy/possible to make a unit switch between weapons like a bow and sword?

is it easy/possible to make a unit be able to climb a tree and jump to the next tree?

Can i make a unit that can knock down enemy units?

first. You need programming that.

Second it's most hard, you need programming, animating. I'm not programmer but, need a lot of stuff to do. It's more possibly do the first than second.

For now we haven't a unit that climb over other actor or entity. But we have units over a wall, but is very for to see for now.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Lion.Kanzen

[sanderd17]

In short, adding behaviour isn't easy, else we would have done it too. If you get one of the things working, be sure to tell it to us, it can become part of the official game.

[Veridagorin]

okay thanks

could i make archers garissonable into trees to so that they could shoot from them?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Veridagorin

[Romulus]

Theoretically you can do anything you want.

You just have to synchronize your mind with the game's source first to learn its design before you start hacking it.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Romulus

[WhiteTreePaladin]

You could make a building with a tree graphic for a garrisonable tree. You wouldn't be able to gather wood from it though.

[thamlett]

Garrisonable trees....

Wow.

You could just have a building surrounded by trees.

[Veridagorin]

or maybe i just have unit that is able to stand in trees

i'm not sure exactly where the terrain restrictions are?

[Radagast.]

You are right, it could be done via height map modifications on runtime. We hought of this too. Also as it's usefull to allow units on walls.

There are no restrictions as it's Open source. The question is where the JavaScript layer restrictions are. And that's quite a complification.

I think easiest is the tree model as a building. You could place trees then too.

I always wonder why the engine is so strict and not simply allows to place any object - then at the end on the javascript side restricts which a faction is allowed to place, i.e. do the restrictions.

It could be because of the huge amount of entities. Though I'm still not familiar enough with the engine to answer those questions.

[Enrique]

You can make a building with the visuals of a tree, use garrison to hide the unit in there, and use the garrison and attack states of the building to show an animated unit in the tree using the prop system. If you want the unit to jump from tree to tree you'll need further coding

[sanderd17]

I always wonder why the engine is so strict and not simply allows to place any object - then at the end on the javascript side restricts which a faction is allowed to place, i.e. do the restrictions.

What restrictions are you talking about? The Engine doesn't restrict a lot, it doesn't restrict that a unit is on the ground, or that a unit is even on a valid coordinate.

[Radagast.]

What restrictions are you talking about? The Engine doesn't restrict a lot, it doesn't restrict that a unit is on the ground, or that a unit is even on a valid coordinate.

I remember you telling me, that it's not possible to place eye-candy objects. But you're right, this was because of the pathfinder's resolution of 4x4.

Which we are about to tackle with the new one.

Sorry for the confusion I must create. You have to excuse that I still don't fully understand all bits of the engine. And as many people say: That's not possible. This is not. Your ideas are impossible. Are you crazy? Come back to reality. Is it a wonder then that I think a lot about the 'not possible'? If you ask people, everything seems to be impossible (and I dislike this a lot).

So the first thing I say to be safe is: it's impossible. Then I'm only waiting for you to tell me it's possible. And glad I wander about to be more motivated.

Motivation is the key, it's always been. It will not change in the near future. Thanks for the strengthening words.

[sanderd17]

If the engine restricts something, it's for performance (the resolution is hard-coded, else the compiler can't optimalize the code good enough), but you aren't even restricted to our pathfinder. The pathfinder is just a component, like there are so many in JS or C++. F.e. the plane uses its own, scripted unitMotion component, with a small build in pathfinder. It doesn't take any form of obstruction into account (so the pathfinder is just drawing straight lines), that's why it's possible to script it.

When we say "it's impossible", we mostly mean it on an economic base (too much work, will be too slow, ...). The pathfinder restricts the units for sure (else there's no point in pathfinding, if units can just walk through everything), but you don't have to use the pathfinder coded in the Engine.

[Radagast.]

I like the pathfinder. Though I understand your example. Interesting it's even possible to exchange pathfinders on a per unit base.

I have to understand the C++ simulation2/ and the JavaScript simulation2/ interaction better.

When we say "it's impossible", we mostly mean it on an economic base (too much work, will be too slow, ...).

Strange there is so much divergence: my chiefs always force features that are almost impossible to get done. While if I like the work (here for example) then people say it's impossible.

If you like to work on something/ have a vison, people blame you. If others have visions, then they force the hell out of you just to get their features done. I understand this is usual. I can live with it, I'm a freelancer anyway (since last week + until chiefs are happy with the results -- you see, they don't even care for the time it takes, as long as they are not concerned).

That why it's no good advice to demand features of someone else. I never asked anyone to make my plans happen. I clearly stated that I have to make those things happen. Everyone is responsible for his/her dreams becoming reality. If anyone likes to help me, I'm happy and it gives the project sense. If not I still dream my dreams, no matter what.

I'm happy you show me, that the engine is even more powerful than I thought. Wow. At first I thought I should go with blender as I'm accustomed to it. Now I think, this will be worth the effort here in 0AD.

[Veridagorin]

What restrictions are you talking about? The Engine doesn't restrict a lot, it doesn't restrict that a unit is on the ground, or that a unit is even on a valid coordinate.

i'm talking about the restrictions that make infantry no able to walk over water or through trees those restrictions

i'm wondering where they are found so that i can make some infantry do those things

[sanderd17]

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/pathfinder.xml

Note that there is a hard limit on the number of classes (8 iirc, because it's implemented as separate bits in an u8 map). Units use default, buildings use building-land etc.

The actual floating can be taken from the ships examples.

[Radagast.]

He's not been angry with you. He's been confused by me.

I learned from Sander that there are 4x4 tiles. Those tiles might be marked as obstruction, so nothing can pass. No idea for the river now. I think it depends on water height if it's marked as obstruction or not.

We could solve your problem with animations too. Those could be triggered if we meet a tree object. Then the animation plays (i.e. the unit hangles up the tree and stays in the tree). Then it may play other animations. Yet I don't know what the bounding box will do, as I read in the C++ engine it is permanently recalculated and thus your unit should - up in the tree - only be attackable by long range weapons.

But how should we trigger when a unit plays the climb-down- (Herunterkletter-) Animation? Perhaps if it receives a new order. Then we first have to play the climb-up animation in reverse. After that we are on the gorund again and can continue as usual.

The same could work to achieve walkable trees. Goal: Somwhat offset the animation height, without having to redo all animations for each level of height. For this we must change the engine probably? I have to do more research ...