Germanic faction(s)

[Lion.Kanzen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisia

Frisia or Friesland is a coastal region along the southeastern corner of the North Sea, i.e. the German Bight. Frisia is the traditional homeland of the Frisians, a Germanic people who speak Frisian, a language group closely related to the English language. Frisia extends from the northwestern Netherlands across northwestern Germany to the border of Denmark (Vidå).

To trace the roots of the Frisians, we have to go back to the Middle Bronze Age, to around 1750BC, when the Germanics, a large Nordic Tribe living in the Jutland and lower Scandinavia area, began to venture south.

Part One

By around 800BC this original tribe had become three distinct groups, the West, East and North Germanics, or the Goths, Vandals and Scandinavians.

Towards the end of the Bronze Age, around 700BC, the tribe of West Germanics had reached the coastal areas of North West Germany.

(There are regions in these parts today called East and North Friesland)

Whilst the original Germanics had divided into three groups geographically, within each group there were also individual religious sections, the West Germanics had three such sections, the Inguaeones, the Istuaeones and the Irminones.

The Frisians belong to the first of these, the Inguaeones, a name derived from the god Inguz, which was another name for the Germanic god,Freyr, from which the day Friday get it's name.

Other tribes within that particular religious grouping, were the Jutes, Warns, Angles and Saxons, of which the Saxons were closest in relation to the Frisians.

(The Frisian language is the closest to Anglo-Saxon (English)

Altogether, the term Germanic has no universally valid meaning anymore among the different sciences (archeology, linguistics, history). In every field it means something different: Linguists characterize the attributes of languages; archaeologists categorize their finds as Germanic according to the material composition, the motives and the location of the find; historians define ethnic, cultural, and social aspects.

Since modern research has adduced that related languages do not mean a consubstantiation between different peoples,

Since there were peoples who probably spoke Germanic, who obviously were by the Celts so highly influenced in their culture, religion and language that historians today suggest they might have been Celtic or mixed Gallo-Germanic,

Since there are grave finds in core areas, although associated with specific tribes, which cannot be clearly assigned to the Germanic people and they belong, if anything, to other tribes other reasons, previously seen as significant, can be dropped as arguments to view the Germanic people as one unified, coherent people.

The Frisians by this time were accomplished fishermen and farmers.

They bred the now famous Frisian cows, (black and white) and Frisian horses, (pure black)

Edited October 14, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Now Frisian with Mixes Franks and Saxons?

North Sea Germanics: Frisians, Chauci, Saxons, Batavians, Cananefates, Tubanti, Frisiavones.

____________________________________________

Alemanni and Suebi

Rhine-Weser-Germanics:Tencteri, Bructeri; Cherusci, Chatti

Elbe Germanics (Elbe Swabians) Langobards, Semnones, Hermunduri, Marcomanni, Quadi, Angle.

Baltic-See Germanics:

Heruli, Suiones (Svear), Jutes and many small Scandinavian tribes such as Gautes, (Geats) Hilleviones, Eutdoses, Sitones, Vagoth, Harudes, Chaedini, Firaesi, Favonae, Dauciones.

Wars of Frisii against Romans.

The Frisii were little more than occasional and incidental players in Roman accounts of history, which focus on Roman actions that were of interest to Roman readers. As a consequence, references to them are disjoint and offer little useful information about them.

When Drusus brought Roman forces through Frisii lands in 12 BC and "won them over", he placed a moderate tax on them. However, a later Roman governor raised the requirements and exacted payment, at first decimating the herds of the Frisii, then confiscating their land, and finally taking wives and children into bondage. By AD 28 the Frisii had had enough. They hanged the Roman soldiers collecting the tax and forced the governor to flee to a Roman fort, which they then besieged. The propraetor of Lower Germany, Lucius Apronius, raised the siege and attacked the Frisii, but was defeated at the Battle of Baduhenna Wood after suffering heavy losses. For whatever reason, the Romans did not seek revenge and the matter was closed. The prestige of the Frisii among the neighboring Germanic tribes was raised considerably.^[15]

After their experiences with the predatory Roman governor and Lucius Apronius, the Frisii became disaffected towards Rome. In AD 47 the Frisii along with the Chauci were led by a certain Gannascus of the Canninefates. They raided along the then-wealthy coast of Gallia Belgica.^[16] The Roman military commander, Corbulo, campaigned successfully against the Germanic tribes,^[17] For the and for the Frisii this meant Roman occupation, with the Romans specifying where they must live, with a fort built among them, and forcing a Roman-style senate, magistrates, and constitution upon them.^[18]

Edited October 14, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Thuringian: Thuringian is possibly another name for the Hermunduri because Hermunduri means “Large Duri”, where ‘Duri’ is another form for ‘Thuri-. Thuringian ist still called Duringian in dialect. Except for the older Hermunduri also (parts of the) Angles und Warni who had migrated southwards were likely part of this confederation.

Franks: The name Franks was supposedly derived from a word which meant “Free Men”. According to various researchers, some of the tribes, which were merged into this large tribe are the Chammavi, Bructeri, Ambivares, Chatti and some other smaller ones.

Alemanni: This name indicates a federation of “all men” and it is conjectured that most of the tribes, which belonged to the early Suebi-Affiliation, joined together as the Alemanni.

Saxons: Indeed, there was a tribe of the Saxons before, however, it probably absorbed smaller neighboring tribes and subsequently their areas of influence until the Rhine. They also spread their area of influence in particular through sea-raiding.

Baiuvarii (Bavarians): The later Bavaria was also a fusion of many smaller tribes which all lived near one another.

From the German book “Germanische Magie” by GardenStone,– modified

http://gardenstone.info/

[Lion.Kanzen]

I found this for goths and vandals.

Via Wulfila's bible translation we do know 4th Century Gothic military terms he used to describe the 1st Century Roman army. These terms reflect the Gothic military organization that grew from its Germanic roots under Roman and Central Asian (Hunnic) influence.

Known terms include:

Drauhtinon (to war)[72]

Gadrauhts (Soldier, Militiaman)[73][74]

Hundafaþs (used to describe a Roman Centurion)[75][76] Common Germanic organization of troops of a hundred armed men (in the Scandinavian Leidang it could refer to less than a hundred or several hundred organized and armed men), literally meaning 'group of a hundred'

Harjis (Army)[77][78]

Hansa (used to describe a Roman Cohort)[78] In Germanic terms meaning a band (of warriors); a related term is the later used German: Hanse, Dutch: Hanze, Estonian: hansa, Polish: Hanza, Swedish: Hansan for the Hanseatic League

Hairus (Sword)[79]

Notes[edit]

Hounds= hundred?

Centuria=cien Spanish . But later the Marian reform is 80.

[Lion.Kanzen]

About the ships.

The leiðangr was a system organising a coastal fleet with the aim of defence, coerced trade, plunderings, and aggressive wars. Normally, the fleet levy was on expeditions for two or three summer months. All free men were obliged to take part in or contribute to the leiðangr. All of the leiðangr was called to arms when invading forces threatened the land. In the expeditions only a fraction of the ships were taking part, but as expeditions often were profitable, many magnates and chieftains tried to join with their people as often as possible.

The lands were divided into districts, ship's crews, "skipreiða" (Old Norse), "skipæn" (Danish) or "skeppslag"/"roslag" (Swedish). The farmers of the district had to build and equip a rowed sailing ship. The size of the ships was defined as a standardized number of oars, initially 40 oars, later 24 oars. In Norway, there were 279 such districts in 1277, in Denmark two-three times as many. The head of a district was called "styrimaðr" or "styræsmand", steersman, and he functioned as captain of the ship. The smallest unit was the crew of peasants who had to arm and provide for one oarsman ("hafnæ" in Danish, "hamna" in Swedish, "manngerð" in Old Norse).

In Sweden a "hamna" was made up of two "attung" which was "two eighth parts of a village". One attung seems to have been equal to the land areal it took to feed an ordinary family (around 12 acers, see Hide (unit), Virgate and Oxgang for English equivalents). Each attung also regard as a "share" in the raid so one who owned two attunghad twice as much chance to go on the raid as one who owned only one. Those who owned less than attung had to team up together with others that owned less than attungform a unit of one attungand share the burdens as well as the profit.

According to the Law of Uppland, the hundreds of Uppland provided as many as four ships each (4 ships with 24 crewmen and 1 steersman each equals a 100 men), those of Västmanland two ships and those of Roslagen one ship (the name indicate that this was seen as just one ship's crew but they was not part of a hundred and might have had the same rights/function of whole hundred only less people).

[Lion.Kanzen]

Helmets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spangenhelm

The Spangenhelm was a popular medieval European combat helmet design of the Early Middle Ages.[1] The name is of German origin. Spangen refers to the metal strips that form the framework for the helmet and could be translated as braces, and -helm simply means helmet. The strips connect three to six steel or bronze plates. The frame takes a conical design that curves with the shape of the head and culminates in a point. The front of the helmet may include a nose protector (a nasal). Older spangenhelms often include cheek flaps made from metal or leather. Spangenhelms may incorporate mail as neck protection, thus forming a partial aventail. Some spangenhelms include eye protection in a shape that resembles modern eyeglass frames. Other spangenhelms include a full face mask.

The spangenhelm arrived in Western Europe by way of what is now southern Russia and Ukraine, spread by nomadic Iranian tribes such as the Scythians and Sarmatians who lived among the Eurasian steppes. By the 6th century it was the most common helmet design in Europe and in popular use throughout the Middle East. It remained in use at least as late as the 9th century.[2]

The spangenhelm was an effective protection that was relatively easy to produce. Weakness of the design were its partial head protection and its jointed construction. It was replaced by similarly shaped helmets made with one-piece skulls (nasal helms), kettle hats and eventually the Great helm or casque.

The Spangenhelm was a popular medieval European combat helmet design of the Early Middle Ages.[1] The name is of German origin. Spangen refers to the metal strips that form the framework for the helmet and could be translated as braces, and -helm simply means helmet. The strips connect three to six steel or bronze plates. The frame takes a conical design that curves with the shape of the head and culminates in a point. The front of the helmet may include a nose protector (a nasal). Older spangenhelms often include cheek flaps made from metal or leather. Spangenhelms may incorporate mail as neck protection, thus forming a partial aventail. Some spangenhelms include eye protection in a shape that resembles modern eyeglass frames. Other spangenhelms include a full face mask.

The spangenhelm arrived in Western Europe by way of what is now southern Russia and Ukraine, spread by nomadic Iranian tribes such as the Scythians and Sarmatians who lived among the Eurasian steppes. By the 6th century it was the most common helmet design in Europe and in popular use throughout the Middle East. It remained in use at least as late as the 9th century.[2]

The spangenhelm was an effective protection that was relatively easy to produce. Weakness of the design were its partial head protection and its jointed construction. It was replaced by similarly shaped helmets made with one-piece skulls (nasal helms), kettle hats and eventually the Great helm or casque.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Andrettin]

Great stuff, Lion.Kanzen! Muy interessante!

[Lion.Kanzen]

HJORTSPRING BOG

In a bog just 50 meters across on the island of Als in southern Denmark, peat diggers discovered well-preserved remains of a wooden boat and spears in the 1880s. In 1921 excavations began that uncovered most of the boat and a large assemblage of weapons, all deposited in about 350–300 B.C. The practice of depositing weapons, and occasionally boats, in ponds and lakes of northern Europe became relatively common during the latter part of the Roman Iron Age, A.D. 200–500. Among the best-known sites of that period are Illerup, Nydam, Thorsberg, and Vimose. As vegetation grows into and across them over time, ponds and lakes often develop into bogs, where the waterlogged and acidic environment preserves organic materials exceptionally well. Hjortspring is the largest of the pre-Roman Iron Age weapon deposits.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Great stuff, Lion.Kanzen! Muy interessante!

Is hard too find and I don't stop because, I open many pages with rich information. If stop, is hard I want to do this tomorrow.

If you guys wanna help me try the open the sources and find, or find non English words.

Thank you guys for help and inspired my search. I hope no one angry for posting, many people thinks somebody paids me for this. Or why I'm the only one the posting is because I love this. History.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Little is known of Germanic helmets from this time period, which is why there have been many discussions regarding the Cimbri armour. No Germanic helmets from antiquity have been discovered, other than some re-worked Roman ones. Trajans Column does make up for this somewhat in its depiction of four irregulars. Scene thirty-six, shows a helmet consisting of a brow band, fore to aft band and ear to ear band, held on by a chinstrap. The angular shape of the bands determines they were made of metal, and therefore are called Crossband style helmets. Between the bands, and also below the neck of the helmet, locks of hair can be seen. These are considered the warriors own locks, as opposed to metal imitation of hair or wigs found on Roman helmets.

I need confirm this from Rome Surrectum mod.

Trajan column.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[greycat]

Well, do we need that?

Some claims by the Romans sounds absurd.

It is true Romans used propaganda and may have over simplified things.

The Belgae are considered Gallo(related to Gaul) and Germanic.

Gaul

1. a Celt of ancient Gaul

Germanic

1. German

Edited October 14, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

Maybe better to concentrate on general culture?

I think part of the problem is we know a great wealth about Rome. Gaul was under Romes control, so we know a fair amount about them. The Romans started to control Germany but were driven out, so we know least about them.

This is just my opinion... It seems more fair to me and would be more in line with the Roman faction to just have one "Celtic culture" and one "Germanic culture". The factions could be updated for scenarios during different time periods. This would streamline things a bit more?

Dividing between Celts and Brittons also seems a bit suspect to me.

"Their classification as "Celts" has two senses, one being the modern linguistic sense, "speakers of a Celtic language". The term "Celts" (Keltoi, Celtae) in ancient ethnography did not extend to the Britons, although some writers noted their culture was very similar to that of the Gauls (i.e. Continental Celtic groups)."

wikipedia

Edited October 14, 2013 by greycat

[Lion.Kanzen]

Buy we have Alemanni and Franks now. And don't forget the Goths.

[greycat]

Buy we have Alemanni and Franks now. And don't forget the Goths.

just my opinion...

In game maybe refer to them as something like Germanic but update units for the scenarios in the time period of the Franks/Alemanni/Goths. I just think Mega Mania may have brought up a good point. For example The Rome Total war series has made many historical mistakes. By focusing on general culture we could maybe avoid some of these mistakes. Since the Alemanni and Franks were after all just confederations of Germanic tribes.

note: One of the major historical mistakes in Rome Total War were the creation of some of the Roman family names. They didn't understand the structure of Roman names and clans.

Edited October 14, 2013 by greycat

[Lion.Kanzen]

Yeah but, it's a game, we can do it 27 German playable factions. I love play with cimbri or Frisi or Suebi as single but think in game play.

Now if you want Alemanni instead of Suebi is not difficult. But with the time cannot be the best.

See we left Pontos, syracusan, Thracians, Numidian and other outside as Faction.

[greycat]

I see your point.

Here is a list of confederations of German tribes which may help us?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_confederations_of_Germanic_tribes

[Lion.Kanzen]

Is long path... We have time until Empires Besieged.

Is some obscure to me, even we don't have enough sources for a good accuracy with units.

For example a Germanic name.

Champion units

Forbidden units

Name of the weapons and armory.

And names even with Germanic names.

Warfare.

I see this, about mini castles as siege towers and women in their armies.

102 BC – A battle between Romans and the Teutonic Ambrones at Aquae Sextiae took place during this time. Plutarch described that "the fight had been no less fierce with the women than with the men themselves... the women charged with swords and axes and fell upon their opponents uttering a hideous outcry."[72]

101 BC – General Marius of the Romans fought the Teutonic Cimbrians. Cimbrian women followed the men in battle, shooting arrows from mobile "wagon castles", and occasionally left the wagon castles to fight with swords. Marius reported that when the battle went poorly for the men, the women emerged from their wagon castles with swords and threatened their own men to ensure that they would continue to fight. After reinforcements arrived for the Romans, the Cimbrian men all were killed, but the women continued to fight. When the Cimbrian women saw that defeat was imminent, they killed their children and committed suicide rather than be taken as captives.[73]

[GunChleoc]

How about these for Germanic names: http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/BarbarianSuevi.htm

[greycat]

my ideas...

from 3rd century BC to 1st century AD

"For example a Germanic name."
Teuton [C18: from Latin Teutonī the Teutons, of Germanic origin]see 1.

"Champion units"
warriors equiped with La Tène swords

"Forbidden units"
maybe? Bows thought of as less "heroic" weapon.

"Name of the weapons and armory."
The use of Celtic spears javalins and shields are evident. No evidence of armour or helmets except in the case of a very few chieftans. Shields are round, rectangular or sexagonal. Small round or
oval shields were used by cavalry

"And names even with Germanic names."
a good start maybe? http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/germanic_names

The main problem seems to be the Germans never wrote about themselves until much later times.

1.Teutonic

noun

: Germanic

adjective

: thought to be typical of German people

: relating to Germany, Germans, or the German language

: relating to an ancient people who lived in northern Europe

[Lion.Kanzen]

No no names of weapons example how they called their bows, their swords, they units.

Help me!

Where is Crooked now XD. I give up. May be Michael can explain how do it this.

[greycat]

No no names of weapons example how they called their bows, their swords, they units.

Help me!

Where is Crooked now XD. I give up. May be Michael can explain how do it this.

I am not sure if that is possible. maybe this could help find closest language?

Look at this chart. The red are extinct languages.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/IndoEuropeanTree.svg/2000px-IndoEuropeanTree.svg.png

The history of the Germanic tribes and races.

http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id43.html

Edited October 14, 2013 by greycat

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ok ok, we need know where Europa Barbarorum. Sourced their names.

Example : The Dugunthiz, Jugunthiz... Gaizoz Frije, herthaganautoz...

I found some page where explain that but, I want other sources and see if found more.

The Etymology of some names for our game is very important.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=youth

-------------

Old English scield, scild "shield; protector, defense," literally "board," from Proto-Germanic *skelduz (cf. Old Norse skjöldr, Old Saxon skild, Middle Dutch scilt, Dutch schild, German Schild, Gothic skildus), from *skel- "divide, split, separate," from PIE root *(s)kel- (1) "to cut" (see scale (n.1)). Perhaps the notion is of a flat piece of wood made by splitting a log. Shield volcano (1911) translates German Schildvulkan (1910). Plate tectonics sense is from 1906, translating Suess (1888).

Old English spere, from Proto-Germanic *speri (cf. Old Norse spjör, Old Saxon, Old Frisian sper, Dutch speer, Old High German sper, German Speer "spear"), from PIE root *sper- "spear, pole" (cf. Old Norse sparri "spar, rafter," and perhaps also Latin sparus "hunting spear").

Interesting not?

http://www.europabarbarorum.com/factions_sweboz_units.html

And we need for units and some evolutions. And Alemanni units.

Suebi:

1. Juwúnga Frankaz

2. Franka Gathesaz

3. Wilthijaz Bairaz

4. Furmas Thundaz

5. Austa Sachsaz

6. Swartas Skelthús

7. Herthaganautoz

8. Semnone Sachsaz

9. Wudumánnoz

10. Liukhmaniz Húsaz

11. Thunoraz Húsaz

Edited October 14, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[greycat]

Ok ok, we need know where Europa Barbarorum. Sourced their names.

Example : The Dugunthiz, Jugunthiz... Gaizoz Frije, herthaganautoz...

They claim esoteric knowledge. This seems a bit suspect to me...

Q: I've never heard of unit/faction/name X. I can't find it online. Where did you find it?

A: Most of our sources are primary archaeological and textual evidence. We have people reading and examining this evidence in period languages. We consider secondary evidence as well. However, many of our sources are found in places that only academics will be able to access, and a few have not even been published yet. Our goal is to be as accurate as possible, not to please those who want to be able to find what we describe on Google.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Sorry I haven't old Germanic books. If you can go to museum contact a Historian from Germany, that so cool. I need a German guy to help us in this. I hope you are or live in Germany?