(Tribal) African minifaction(s) (research and concept thread)

[oshron]

Oshron, yeah is very important make new diplomacy upgrade. And design a mini faction template. And later select the biomes where we must placed and what cultures can be chosen and work fine with gameplay and 0 ad concept.

i think it would be better for a given minifaction to appear on a particular map script rather than throughout a given biome. for example, instead of all desert maps having Israelite settlements on them, only ones which are specificaly set in the Israel/Palestine area (and possibly Egypt, in reference to the Exodus) would have Israelite settlements, so those would be the only ones that civs other than the Ptolemies can get Israelite merc units on (e.g., Judaean Slingers)

depending on how densely populated some regions were from 500bc-500ad, that could also determine what additional tribes can be included, or where they would be the most interesting; for example, this could extend to generic a Subsaharan tribe that's encountered on a map specifically set on the Serengeti or in Cameroon, while the map set at the North Pole wouldnt have any because very few parts of that region were settled at the time, and still are to this day (for the purposes of specific placement, we could say that its Svalbard since that land wasnt discovered until the 12th century)

this could perhaps even extend to plausible but wholly fictional civs from fiction which had since passed into the public domain (like cultures which appear stuff by Edgar Rice Burroughs, for instance). iirc, one map set in Subsaharan Africa is based at least in part on King Solomon's Mines, a Victorian Era novel. personally, i'd be interested in a minifaction (and corresponding map) based on Skull Island from King Kong. but maybe it's just 'cuz i'm a paleo-nerd and such a map would probably include dinosaurs

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ok Secenarios like aoe 3, is better idea. But first is importante in scenario can possibly edit settings like max population, I can do myself change that but automatically is better. I play in 150 max pop for the performance thing. For that I don't play scenarios. And all who having that problem do that.

all loves Dinosaurus too. Hahaha.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Unarmed]

Dinosaurs!? Did I hear dinosaurs!? When I was a very little kid I used to always take dinosaur books from the library (but also about ancient armies, pirates etc.)

If you haven't seen Walking with Dinosaurs you are not a true dinosaur fan, though Walking with Dinosaurs has errors in it.

i think it would be better for a given minifaction to appear on a particular map script rather than throughout a given biome. for example, instead of all desert maps having Israelite settlements on them, only ones which are specificaly set in the Israel/Palestine area (and possibly Egypt, in reference to the Exodus) would have Israelite settlements, so those would be the only ones that civs other than the Ptolemies can get Israelite merc units on (e.g., Judaean Slingers)

depending on how densely populated some regions were from 500bc-500ad, that could also determine what additional tribes can be included, or where they would be the most interesting; for example, this could extend to generic a Subsaharan tribe that's encountered on a map specifically set on the Serengeti or in Cameroon, while the map set at the North Pole wouldnt have any because very few parts of that region were settled at the time, and still are to this day (for the purposes of specific placement, we could say that its Svalbard since that land wasnt discovered until the 12th century)

Good thinking. I like these ideas.

this could perhaps even extend to plausible but wholly fictional civs from fiction which had since passed into the public domain (like cultures which appear stuff by Edgar Rice Burroughs, for instance). iirc, one map set in Subsaharan Africa is based at least in part on King Solomon's Mines, a Victorian Era novel. personally, i'd be interested in a minifaction (and corresponding map) based on Skull Island from King Kong. but maybe it's just 'cuz i'm a paleo-nerd and such a map would probably include dinosaurs

Everyone has their taste. I never play gears or the polar maps because I play partly for the atmosphere and authencity. So in my opinion fictional maps are fine, but it should be very clear they are. I would be very dissapointed if I clicked on a scenario or biome that says: "Brittania heathlands" or "Persian highlands" and I play the map and it has buildable dragons, citizen-soldiers replaced with robots and a tinky winky, and the map itself is drawed like male genetals.

I know, I know, that's a big exeggeration, but I think this makes my point very clear.

Ok Secenarios like aoe 3, is better idea. But first is importante in scenario can possibly edit settings like max population, I can do myself change that but automatically is better. I play in 150 max pop for the performance thing. For that I don't play scenarios. And all who having that problem do that.

all loves Dinosaurus too. Hahaha.

I don't play scenarios either because of the population, even without lag I prefer to play around 200, I hope it is a priority to make population customizable for scenarios. And people who have a not-so-great computer can't possibly play scenerios, which is kind of sad.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Unarmed

[Lion.Kanzen]

You can do a poll of scenario settings.

You are very impulsive like me. Hahaha, that good. You thing is possibly bring more contributors with some cool videos, merchandising , t shirts and other visuals?. Make wallpapers . Now with Instagram effects, people can see the game. Is important make pool in forums of rest gaming.

Try to bring programers , how can bring a guys like that?

[Unarmed]

You can do a poll of scenario settings.

I was thinking of a poll for how the minifactions should work. But scenario options is good too. (Make another thread for it)

Try to bring programers , how can bring a guys like that?

I would think there are three types of programmers concerning 0 A.D. :

1. People who can program and like 0 A.D. and want to improve it

2. People looking for a way to improve their programming

3. People who can program and look for a challenge

Advertising 0 A.D. through youtube, Facebook, twitter (which is done) seems the best way to get these people, and make good lists of what needs to be done. I think number 1 people will always contribute to 0 A.D, but the other 2 people need to know what they can do for 0 A.D.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Unarmed

[Lion.Kanzen]

Thats my point Promotional vídeos, and fan art, bring artists to contribute in media to attract this people, and send a message to programmers.

[oshron]

Everyone has their taste. I never play gears or the polar maps because I play partly for the atmosphere and authencity. So in my opinion fictional maps are fine, but it should be very clear they are. I would be very dissapointed if I clicked on a scenario or biome that says: "Brittania heathlands" or "Persian highlands" and I play the map and it has buildable dragons, citizen-soldiers replaced with robots and a tinky winky, and the map itself is drawed like male genetals.

I know, I know, that's a big exeggeration, but I think this makes my point very clear.

in general, i had been thinking of fiction that would still blend well with the general setting of 0ad. for my Skull Island example, while King Kong itself is set in the earlier half of the 20th, the setting itself would still fit relatively well into the 500bc-500ad timeframe because the Skull Islanders (in all versions of King Kong) are more or less a Stone Age culture, and most people wouldnt bat an eye at seeing the ruins on the island (as seen in the 2005 version, where the whole setting is much more detailed) in most other places in the world (obviously, people actually familiar with cultures in other parts of the world WOULD see such differences, hence stuff like Mayincatecs in fiction)

as for Skull Island itself, i had thought it would be better as a non-random map, where every player starts on a single ship loaded with citizen-soldiers out on the sea and must sail to the island and establish a base, with Skull Islanders inhabiting only a small part of the island, the ancient wall cutting off a large portion of it all, and only the interior of the island having exceptionally large animals (including dinosaurs) which respawn to increase the general challenge. the Skull Island wall would require new objects for the game and would be twice as tall as walls that can be built by playable civs

i also agree with you about maps that look patently ridiculous (i don't want to play on a map shaped like a @#$%, either). obviously, with all the free source stuff that the design team is implementing, there will inevitably be some immature @#$%s who will make stuff like that, but it should by no means be part of the serious, unmodified game as those kinds of things don't take themselves seriously, as opposed to a lost world setting with primitive peoples and dinosaurs (while ridiculous, it's objectively more interesting and enjoyable than armies fighting on a map shaped like a @#$%)

BUT, in general, we should focus on the historical minifactions first i decided to make a compiled list of civs brought up in the playable factions and the mercs that they would provide (though i put question marks next to ones that are represented by Champion units):

• Thracians (Thracian Peltast)
  
• Cretans/Minoans (Cretan Mercenary Archer)
  
• Scythians (Scythian Archer) (?)
  
• Gauls (Gallic Swordsman)
  
• Libyans (Libyan Spearman, Libyan Mercenary)
  
• Iberians (Iberian Skirmisher, Iberian Cavalry)
  
• Mauritanians (Mauritanian Archer)
  
• Balearics (Balearic Slinger) (possibly goes with Iberian tribes)
  
• Italians (Italic Cavalry, Italic Heavy Infantry (?))
  
• Numidians (Numidian Cavalry)
  
• Agrianians (Agiranian Peltast)
  
• Rhodians (Rhodian Slinger)
  
• Thessalians (Thessalian Lancer)
  
• Odrysians (Odrysian Cavalry)
  
• Sardians (Sardian Auxiliary)
  
• Sogdians (Sogdian Archer)
  
• Cappadocians (Cappadocian Cavalry)
  
• Hyrcanians (Hyrcanian Cavalry)
  
• Medes (Median Cavalry)
  
• Babylonians (Babylonian Chariot)
  
• Arameans (Aramean Merchant) (might be superfluous since everyone has a merchant unit)
  
• Ionians (Ionian Ship)
  
• Cypriads (Cypriad Warship)
  
• Phoenicians (Phoenician Warship)
  
• Assyrians (Assyrian Ram)
  
• Bactrians (Bactrian Lancer) (?)
  
• Galatians (Galatian Settler Swordsman)
  
• Judaeans (Judaean Slinger)
  
• Nubians (Nubian Mercenary Archer)
  
• Macedonians (Macedonian Settler Cavalry)
  
• Nabataeans (Nabataean Camel Rider)
  
• Tarantines (Tarantine Settler Cavalry)
  

keep in mind that i only wrote down what's mentioned in the design doc

personally, i'd recommend not including minifactions which are intimately associated with a playable civ (like the Medes to the Persians or the Italians to the Romans) or ARE a playable civ (like the Macedonians)

[Mythos_Ruler]

"Italians" could actually be the Samnites, as far as mini-factions go.

[Lion.Kanzen]

elephants, is very good list, but where is the elephants mercenary, I know is a suggestion list. But don't forget strong fearsome units. Hannibal knos what is better for a Army. and Romans knows too, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cynoscephalae.

See Numidian Elephants.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Unarmed]

About the ficitional stuff. I overly exaggerated it to try to make a point. I'm okay with fiction as long as I don't get the wrong idea when playing a map that I thought would be authentic. I don't like the idea of amazing historical accurate civilisations on a map that's the opposite.

I'm not going to stop the developers from making fiction, like the special dragon map. But yeah I might very well complain when something fictional is done in favour of something authentic that is important.

BUT, in general, we should focus on the historical minifactions first i decided to make a compiled list of civs brought up in the playable factions and the mercs that they would provide (though i put question marks next to ones that are represented by Champion units):

• Thracians (Thracian Peltast)
  
• Cretans/Minoans (Cretan Mercenary Archer)
  
• Scythians (Scythian Archer) (?)
  
• Gauls (Gallic Swordsman)
  
• Libyans (Libyan Spearman, Libyan Mercenary)
  
• Iberians (Iberian Skirmisher, Iberian Cavalry)
  
• Mauritanians (Mauritanian Archer)
  
• Balearics (Balearic Slinger) (possibly goes with Iberian tribes)
  
• Italians (Italic Cavalry, Italic Heavy Infantry (?))
  
• Numidians (Numidian Cavalry)
  
• Agrianians (Agiranian Peltast)
  
• Rhodians (Rhodian Slinger)
  
• Thessalians (Thessalian Lancer)
  
• Odrysians (Odrysian Cavalry)
  
• Sardians (Sardian Auxiliary)
  
• Sogdians (Sogdian Archer)
  
• Cappadocians (Cappadocian Cavalry)
  
• Hyrcanians (Hyrcanian Cavalry)
  
• Medes (Median Cavalry)
  
• Babylonians (Babylonian Chariot)
  
• Arameans (Aramean Merchant) (might be superfluous since everyone has a merchant unit)
  
• Ionians (Ionian Ship)
  
• Cypriads (Cypriad Warship)
  
• Phoenicians (Phoenician Warship)
  
• Assyrians (Assyrian Ram)
  
• Bactrians (Bactrian Lancer) (?)
  
• Galatians (Galatian Settler Swordsman)
  
• Judaeans (Judaean Slinger)
  
• Nubians (Nubian Mercenary Archer)
  
• Macedonians (Macedonian Settler Cavalry)
  
• Nabataeans (Nabataean Camel Rider)
  
• Tarantines (Tarantine Settler Cavalry)
  

keep in mind that i only wrote down what's mentioned in the design doc

personally, i'd recommend not including minifactions which are intimately associated with a playable civ (like the Medes to the Persians or the Italians to the Romans) or ARE a playable civ (like the Macedonians)

Good that you wrote down the list, so we can discuss this futher.

[oshron]

it occurs to me that some other good basis for minifactions could be civs that were once planned but have since been cut. iirc, it was previously planned that the Hellenes were to be split into Macedonians and Poleis, with the Poleis having three or four factions that they can diverge into. that's since been reformatted into the current system with no splitting of civs to make each one more unique, but i think the posts concerning those are still lying around. i'll see if i can't dig them up.

• Iphicrateans (Iphicratean Hoplite)
  
• Thebans (Sacred Band Hoplite, Fire Raiser)
  
• Syracusans (Siege Crossbow, Greek Quinquereme)
  
• Thracians (Thracian Heavy Cavalry) (in addition to the Thracian Peltast mentioned before)
  
• Thessalians (Thessalian Scout)
  

particularly, having some "maritime" civs like the Syracusans as minifactions could help, specifically, with the Iberians; iirc, they don't have any warships of their own and would otherwise rely on their buildings and ranged units to take out enemy ships or form an alliance with a civ that DOES have warships. on a predominantly water map, they could easily ally with a minifaction like the Phoenicians or Syracusans and thus gain access to mercenary sailors that form the bulk of their navy while their actual standing army is still mostly comprised of Iberian units

here's links to those posts by Mythos_Ruler btw: Greeks, Macedonians

Edited July 3, 2013 by oshron

[Unarmed]

it occurs to me that some other good basis for minifactions could be civs that were once planned but have since been cut. iirc, it was previously planned that the Hellenes were to be split into Macedonians and Poleis, with the Poleis having three or four factions that they can diverge into. that's since been reformatted into the current system with no splitting of civs to make each one more unique, but i think the posts concerning those are still lying around. i'll see if i can't dig them up.

• Iphicrateans (Iphicratean Hoplite)
  
• Thebans (Sacred Band Hoplite, Fire Raiser)
  
• Syracusans (Siege Crossbow, Greek Quinquereme)
  
• Thracians (Thracian Heavy Cavalry) (in addition to the Thracian Peltast mentioned before)
  
• Thessalians (Thessalian Scout)
  

particularly, having some "maritime" civs like the Syracusans as minifactions could help, specifically, with the Iberians; iirc, they don't have any warships of their own and would otherwise rely on their buildings and ranged units to take out enemy ships or form an alliance with a civ that DOES have warships. on a predominantly water map, they could easily ally with a minifaction like the Phoenicians or Syracusans and thus gain access to mercenary sailors that form the bulk of their navy while their actual standing army is still mostly comprised of Iberian units

It is a nice idea to have these kind of factions in the game.

here's links to those posts by Mythos_Ruler btw: Greeks, Macedonians

Man when I read those posts I was like. Me want me wants!

But yeah the developers have already a lot to do without them. Hope they might be crowd sourced or contributed one day.

[newcivs]

Just because it's a slur in South Africa doesn't mean it's a slur everywhere else in Africa. Nor does it mean "Bantu" is not the correct etymological word to use.

I Have an idea about this topic, put "african tribes"

as for example with the gauls, we dont put arveni and other trbes, only gauls, we can denominate this tribes with a similar strategy

[Mega Mania]

Well, they shouldn't be playable nor they will become any real mini faction because they have no real identity.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Hmm the problem with mini faction is not a official planned featured. But Michael and many others like the idea but, is possibly for second part. Is a lot of work.

[newcivs]

Hmm the problem with mini faction is not a official planned featured. But Michael and many others like the idea but, is possibly for second part. Is a lot of work.

Ok, thanks

Edited October 12, 2013 by newcivs

[Mega Mania]

Maybe the Ethiopians, Garamantines and Maure could fit in the list?

IMHO, Bantu could hardly made into the list although the Ancient Egyptian acknowledged their existence, here's an article from http://www.kaa-umati.co.uk/Bantu%20in%20Ancient%20Egypt.htm that may help.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Mega Mania

[Mega Mania]

Garamantes: http://www.livius.org/ga-gh/garamantes/garamantes.html

[Lion.Kanzen]

Is too soon to considerate the factions, with Rome 2 they bring many mini faction or sub faction to the light of player can be make an idea how diverse was the Hellenistic times.

[Lion.Kanzen]

We need new AiMinifactionUnits.js to promming the behavior

new whole diplomacy levels to use Ai diplomacy

new Art

new Gameplat etc.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

First we need a settlement of each civilization. And civilization and faction is not same.

acorddibg with Micheal Hafer. the Lead.

I would include "native" or "mini-factions" as post-release free DLC (probably as part of our post-release patches, to sweeten the deal). And then I would only use them in scenarios and skirmish maps, so that they can be used judiciously and uniquely by the designer. I'd rather they be a "special" feature of some maps rather than something that's used all of the time in random maps and whatnot. They could also be useful in campaigns.

To make sure they are actually implemented, it is best to think of ways to include them without much extra programming. Try to think of things that we are going to include anyway, then just build on those. For instance, best to think of a way to use the planned 'capture' feature and integrate that into your plans instead of coming up with a whole-new way of doing things. This way, your pet feature (in this instance, mini-factions) is easier to implement, making it more likely to be implemented. Just my advice.

now if are a group of artist or Programmer that wants to Contribute do it many things of this... you must feel free to start, is a long way to bring this feature.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

l

Is suppose to be the mini faction have a settlement in some maps like skirmish and scenario.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[SDM]

Here's a site that has two housing structures for the Bantu and the Khoisan peoples: http://africatermpaper.wikispaces.com/Indigenous+Architecture

[SDM]

Here are pictures of the houses from the link above:

[Lion.Kanzen]

we need more 3D blender volunteers. if we want this feature soon.