Ticket 1774 discussion and feedback

[kingadami]

I am realativly new to programming for 0ad and am picking up tickets in order to learn the code design and layout. I have decided to take on something a little more than just simple bug fixes or finishing something someone else has started (and also something which is more javascript than c++ so I can learn more about that aspect).

Ticket 1774 (http://trac.wildfire...com/ticket/1774) wants a quick way to see how many units are garrisoned in a structure or unit without having to click on it. So when you are trying to fill up all of your towers with troops you don't have to keep clicking around to see which ones still need them. Using one of the ticket's suggestions I through together a quick patch which displays the number of units as a status bar (The patch is with the ticket). The patch uses the icons for packing for now because I am not an artist.

I did this simple implementation to act as a spring board for discussion and feedback. The ticket mentions several other suggestions as well like not allowing the enemy to see how many units are garrisoned in your structures (I think with my simple implementation the enemy can see this information). I actually like this idea because it adds an unknown element. The enemy would not see the garrison status bar. It has a few other ideas as well.

The other question is: Is a status bar a good way to display this information?

Thanks.

[Lion.Kanzen]

only frienly must be see this. but is not a great feature

[Pedro Falcão]

This is a sound subject, kingadami.

Long story short, yes, i think a status bar would be good.

I hate to always be using Starcraft 2 as example for all features i'd like to see in 0AD, but It's the only RTS (besides 0AD, obviously) that I've been playing lately and one of the few i know deeply (in terms of gameplay features), so let's proceed.

As i said, I agree with the status bar idea, but IMO they should be small. Look at the screenshot:

What i am afraid is of this visual pollution at the bottom-right of the SS, with 3 status bar for each unit. Even when you want to see all units' health bars and stuff, you want to see the info concise and easy to differentiate, else you'll end up thinking i.e. the depleted energy bar is a low-health unit, you'll try to find that unit manually to (save it) and will waste time. That isn't acceptable.

The point is: if a status bar is implemented for garrisoned units, it'll be the third bar (health and stamina/loyalty are the others) and each and all of them must be easily differentiated from each other, i don't care how.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Pedro Falcão

[feneur]

Hmm, I'm thinking it would be enough to only have the status bar for the garrisonable siege engines/ships/buildings show up when you e.g. press the Ctrl key to garrison (or for that matter press the GUI button). You don't need to know it otherwise (at least generally speaking, and in either case it's an easy thing to press the Ctrl button to check whether your buildings etc are filled up), and that way it will not crowd up the GUI the rest of the time.

[fabio]

I reported some suggestion some years ago that are not implemented:

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/645#comment:4

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/645#comment:33

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/817

Probably an indicator X/Y near or on the flag itself where X is current and Y is maximum units garrisonable could be a simple but useful indicator.

[Pedro Falcão]

I was trying to draw a concept and ended up making one too complex for 0AD, but anyways, the idea is here:

The first one with status bars for garrisoned units (when holding 'ctrl'), the second showing health + loyalty/stamina and the third only health (initially, my intention was to hide the loyalty/stamina bar when totally full).

[zoot]

I don't see the great utility in hiding the garrison bar unless Ctrl is pressed? It's not like the screen will be full of these bars, they are only drawn when the entity is selected etc.

[Pedro Falcão]

Well, as feneur said, there is no need to show them, either, unless when you are planning on garrisoning someone, and in that case, you won't mind pressing 'ctrl' if you'll be pressing it anyways.

[kingadami]

Thanks for the feedback. The idea of puting the numbers on the flag sounds neat, but I am affraid that it will be too hard to read it unless you are zoomed in and looking at it from the correct angle since it is not billboarded to the camera. I might try it just to see wbat it looks like (might be fun).

You will only be able to see how many troops are in your buildings to keep the element of surprise for the other players.

I haven't verified if the other players see your flags or not yet which would allow them to see how many are in the structure (wether the numbers are on the flag or the hieght of the flag is determined by the number).

Also I will create 2 patches which will always show the bar and one which will only show it if you are holding the control key.

Anymore comments let me know and I will let you k

ow when I have something.

[historic_bruno]

Agreed, nobody will be able to read numbers on the flag. Maybe numbers overlaid next to the flag, but even then it could easily be lost in the background. The idea of adjusting flag height is not bad, though I don't think the engine supports adjusting prop positions (yet), and we'd need to make sure the garrison flag prop points were positioned consistently in the models.

I think we should keep the use of status bars to a minimum, because it's one more thing to learn when playing the game and they do start to look cluttered. Anyone who's played an RTS would know a single green/red bar is the health level, but what about when we add a white bar; a yellow one, a blue? Even with siege packing I used a white bar for lack of any better alternatives, but it might look better with a big "xx%" floating above it (we also use a white bar in the UI for XP level). Maybe even foundation progress should be "xx%". Status bars will be seen more often than the unit selection/details panel, so we should be even more strict about how we use them.

I also agree with zoot that it doesn't seem a good place for a hotkey.

[serveurix]

I also agree with zoot that it doesn't seem a good place for a hotkey.

Why ? Many games have hotkey combinations to switch between a normal, non-visually polluted mode, and a "display everything" mode (usually this displays line of sight and firering range of all units). Switching between modes was an idea suggested in the bug report, but I find the idea of using the Ctrl key even more clever (especially with feneur and Pedro's explanations).

[zoot]

Why ? Many games have hotkey combinations to switch between a normal, non-visually polluted mode, and a "display everything" mode (usually this displays line of sight and firering range of all units).

On that note, do any games require a hotkey to be pressed to show garrison bars/indicators?

Edited January 4, 2013 by zoot

[Pedro Falcão]

On that note, do any games require a hotkey to be pressed to show garrison bars/indicators?

AFAIK, no games hide any bars when the units are selected. Some have a hotkey to show all bars of all units currently on screen (wether selected or not), which is the 'alt' key.