Civ: Eastern Romans/Early Byzantines

[lilstewie]

[Lion.Kanzen]

I love Byzantine architecture

I love cataphracts

I love lamp

I could give some of this a shot, or do some concepts if you guys want

show them we love your work

[Mythos_Ruler]

[Lion.Kanzen]

Nice pic, wow, I save to my personal album. A question, why don't open civ profile about Seleucids?

[Mythos_Ruler]

A question, why don't open civ profile about Seleucids?

Can probably do that soon. Didn't want to distract from the Ptolemies.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Other question, you think if we implement a patcher/updates in win and Mac can have attention of people regularly. Than actual system. I noticed people visit us after each release. Sorry with off topic.

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Mythos_Ruler]

[Lion.Kanzen]

Michael you see the Documental from BBC Rome Rise and fall, not the History Channel Version.

They have very Truly Comitatenses Soldier. I'll share the video later.

I found

Edited August 15, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[newcivs]

Excellent! Here's their Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excubitors

i think too, this unit should be champion infantry and cataphracts chanpion calvary!, and i have some ideas for bizantines

and put as persian_sb2 "using this biulding you train holopites kardaces and kardaces skimser", we can build a bizantine palace and train varagian guard and sholae palatine

and as cartage put embassies, a germanic embassy "train gothic warriors", and hunnish embaasy "a big and simple tent"

for the barracks train: Limitae Klibanarii Martiobarbulus Fundibulatores

for the fortress cathafracts, rams, balistas with the "greek fire" oxybeles and excubitors

for the temple only train the healer, and put a big themple as wonder

and for the rest using the coomon style

for the dock train: Dromons "trirreme", shipfire and "quinquereme" here greek fire ship

[Mythos_Ruler]

Byzantine Wonder can be the Hagia Sophia or Hippodrome.

[newcivs]

the Vikings themselves fall outside 0ad's timeframe, though i would recommend including them anyway as editor-only units, with some Norse mercs being used as special units for different civs (like Varangians for the Byzantines here)

I have a best idea, is based on the "persian_sb2" structure, a hidden unit as the hellenic sota for some scenarios and in the editor

[Lion.Kanzen]

Beauty don't? We must have this in the game, looks like a badass unit XD. I love the adaptation of Roman army in many types of biomes.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[newcivs]

Byzantine Wonder can be the Hagia Sophia or Hippodrome.

Beauty don't? We must have this in the game, looks like a badass unit XD. I love the adaptation of Roman army in many types of biomes.

Beauty don't? We must have this in the game, looks like a badass unit XD. I love the adaptation of Roman army in many types of biomes.

Beauty don't? We must have this in the game, looks like a badass unit XD. I love the adaptation of Roman army in many types of biomes.

i think that the hipodrome is best! "the most famous"

the camel rider is good, but bizarre, because is only avaivable only on middle east and north africa

Edited November 26, 2013 by newcivs

[newcivs]

excuseme for the qeustion, but is it a phalanx-style formation??????? i modern time "+500 years after the last phalanx?"

[Mythos_Ruler]

Yep. The late Romans started to revert back to "shield wall" style tactics.

[burzum2]

This is a great thread.... I like the Byzantines. I only wished I had all this detailed art when I was studying them.

The Byzantines did indeed inherit the Greek phalanx that the brunt of the Byzantine army besides the cataphract were a type of hoplite hybrid especially under Justinian.

I would not clasify them being Roman in the truest sense, but they just like their big sister copied and used, hacked, changed, modify the strategies, weapons, tactics, army the lot to be something that was more of an elite force with superior quality rather than massive numbers of poor equiped soldiers. Think of Nazi Germany vs Russian serfs.. Larl

Quality vs numbers and the Byzantine army were the biggest expence to the Byzantine Empire... They were eventially dealt heavy blows against the deadly Turkish horse archers which eventually shot the once mighty and potent Byzantine army to pieces.

So yes Byzantium was Rome in a way, but they simply were the twilight of her eastern Empire...

[burzum2]

Yep. The late Romans started to revert back to "shield wall" style tactics.

http://www.byzantinechant.org/recordings.html

This is the closest to the Byzantine chant of the eastern faith.

The whole Medieval "chant" conflated with catholism and the church came from the Byzantines originally. They are the fathers of chant.

Edited January 1, 2014 by burzum2

[Flavius Aetius]

Hi,

As this is my first post I will say a little about myself first. I am the project leader of the mod INVASIO BARBARORVM: VLTIMVS ROMANORVM for the Rome Total War: Barbarian Invasion 1.6 platform. I am also a Roman Re-Enactor and author of my own book on the Battle of the Catalaunian Fields (It is not yet published.)

Now, to the topic at hand:

Many of the images on this thread, are frankly, WRONG. I recognized many of the ones in the first post as being by D'Amato, who frankly has his own crazy fantasies about the Roman army that are horribly incorrect.

Now, let's look at the Eastern and Western Roman Empire in a historically correct pesrpective:

Roman Troops:

Limitanei - The Limitanei were high quality border garrison troops. Contrary to popular belief, they were not undisciplined, barbarized, or neglected, and were the front line of defence against the "Barbarians" of the Later Roman Empire. The Limitanei were first established in Britain by Constantine before he left for Gaul, where he established the Ripenses Garrisons on the Rhine (a grade of Limitanei). Limitanei come in 4 grades: Burgarii (Who man watch towers, which is individually called a Burgus), Castellanii (Who man the Roman Stone Forts which are each called a Castellum), Ripenses and Riparienses (Grades of troops that manned the Rhine and Danube frontiers, likely differentiated by unit size).

Generally Speaking, Limitanei would have looked something like this:

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/247/6/4/limitanei_by_amelianvs-d6kqs8g.jpg

In terms of 0Ad, they would go in the "Hastatii" Slot

Comitatenses - Beginning in the mid 4th Century AD, Comitatenses became the primary fighting force against major incursions, but were not originally created for that purpose. The Comitatenses were supposed to be centralized armies used for putting down rebellions, but switched out of that role due to the ability of Barbarian groups to form "Superconfederations" beginning in the mid-4th century, and later the militarized and often rebellious Foederatii that eventually brought down the Empire.

Generally Speaking, they would have looked something like this:

http://amelianvs.deviantart.com/art/Battle-of-Frygium-27-July-363-366190126

In terms of 0AD, they would go in the "Triarii" slot

For the East Roman Empire specifically, I recommend Legio V Macedonica, which lasted until 635 AD, and Legio IIII Parthica, which lasted to around the 630's as well.

Auxilia/Legio Palatina - Auxilia and Legio Palatina were created from a mix of old Legionary and Auxilia regiments, often with no respectivity to what they were created from. They usually were armored the same as their Comitatenses counterparts, but were better trained and more disciplined. Auxilia Palatina formed the core of the most famous Late Roman Armies: Julian's at Strausborg, Valens' at Adrianople, and Aetius' at Chalons, just to name a few.

They would have looked something like this:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/julianus_heraclius/auxilia_palatini_cornuti_brachiati.jpg

In terms of 0AD, they would go in the "Extraordinarii" slot.

For the Eastern Roman Empire specifically, I recommend the Felices Theodosiaci, a unit which lasted until 980 AD.

I will post more later on Late Roman Cavalry. This organizational system was maintained up until the time of the Emperor Maurice, and somewhat later. It was replaced by the Thematic army beginning in 638.

The IMG tags didn't work so I had to link, sorry about that.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Flavius Aetius

[Flavius Aetius]

Equites Scutarii/Mauri/Armagerii - Scutarii meant "Shieldbearers" and it is thought that these were cavalry armed with large infantry shields, rather than small cavalry shields.Mauri and Armagerii were similar to Scutarii, but didn't have the large shield. They were graded as "Limitanei" cavalry and were likely armed with,as well as a sword or lance, several light javelins.Like thier infantry counterparts, they were not the undisciplined, lower-quality troops most people think of when concerning the Limitanei. They served as a screening force for the Roman infantry.

They would have looked something like this:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/julianus_heraclius/Revised%20Roman%20UI%20Cards/Equites_auxilia_info.jpg

In terms of 0AD, these would be the "Socii" or Italian Allies slot

Equites Promoti/Stablesiani - Promoti and Stablesiani were the descendents of the cavalry detachments of the Roman Legions of the Principate, and were usually Comitatenses-grade troops. They were armed similarly to Scutarii, but were lancers rather than javelineers. Unlike the Scutarii, they were supposed to engage enemy cavalry, but were not that effective against infantry unless attacking from the sides or rear of a formation.

They would have looked something like this:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/julianus_heraclius/Revised%20Roman%20UI%20Cards/sarmatian_auxilia_info.jpg

In terms of 0AD, these would be the Roman Equites Slot

Equites Catafractarii/Clibanarii - Equites Catafractarii and Clibanarii were Roman Superheavy Cavalry, second only to the Bucellarii of some of the Roman Magister Militae. The difference was that Catafractarii seemed to have been armored head to toe, but Clibanarii had an armored horse as well. They were shock cavalry, often equipped to use Hunnic and Sarmatian "lance-and-bow" tactics, in which one was trained to switch between lance and bow usage quickly while in combat, as the situation demanded. Like Promoti, they were designed to smash enemy cavalry and exploit gaps in infantry formations. Although heavily armored, this was exploited to take them down: for example at Strausborg in 357 AD, the Alemanni hid infantry in the tall grass with their cavalry, that would cut the horses out from underneath their riders, and get up under the horse armor of the Clibanarii.

This is what they would have looked like:

http://comitatus.net/images/comitatuscavalry82.jpg

In Terms of 0AD, these would have been in the "Consular Bodyguard" slot.

Heroes:

These are just Hero recommendations:

Eastern Empire:

Theodosius the Great - Bonus to Barracks Infantry

Belisarius - Bonus to Cavalry

Heraclius - Bonus to Champion Infantry

Western Empire:

Julian the Apostate - Bonus to Barracks Infantry

Flavius Stilicho - Bonus to Barracks Cavalry

Flavius Aetius - Bonus to Champion Infantry

The IMG tags didn't work so I had to link, sorry about that.

More on the Late Roman Navy and Foederati Later

Edited April 25, 2014 by Flavius Aetius

[niektb]

Img tags do not work for you?

[img][/img]

Or use the image button in the text editing options.

Only make sure you insert the direct link like:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd271/julianus_heraclius/Revised%20Roman%20UI%20Cards/sarmatian_auxilia_info.jpg

Not:

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/julianus_heraclius/media/Revised%20Roman%20UI%20Cards/sarmatian_auxilia_info.jpg.html

Edited April 25, 2014 by niektb

[Flavius Aetius]

IMG tags wouldn't work, maybe because I'm new?

BTW, this game is great and I've wanted to contribute to the Late Roman part of it in some form for a while. I just never knew it had a forums.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Flavius Aetius

[Radagast.]

Thx Evan for pushing this. We must get the Byzantines ready, there are very interesting stories surrounding those ... even the crusades may be targeted in a campaign. Of course free to choose sides, crusades were no good.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Hephaestion

[Flavius Aetius]

If you go that late, you would have several Byzantine factions: East Romans, then probably Thematic Byzantine, then Komnenian (a mix of Thematic and Pronoia), then Palaiologian (The "down the tubes" Pronoia-based system).

Glad to help in any way I can.

[Radagast.]

Good point, my wits are a bit foggy because of programming, but luckily there are people around which can correct my current historical misstatements (Komnenos .. the greek took over .. I remember Alexios Komnenos, one of the last capable emperors of the Eastern Roman Empire? Again, excuse the fog. I must mix it up).

We could then have it like Mythos plans it for the tech tree. And like it is for the hellenic cultures, specialising ..

From those that you mentioned, is there a notable difference in

• buildings,
• clothes,
• military structure/style,
• story-telling/heroes?