Unit And Building Names

[Erutuon]

A correction and choice on which word to go with:

Field

Agrós

Corral

Épaulos (aule is ambiguous with just a courtyard, ktenotropheion is too long)

In playing the game I noticed that the Greek Hoplite had its full transliteration added, but the combining acute accent on the ī́ was not displaying — there was instead a box after the ī. I haven't updated my SVN recently, but if the font does not display combining acutes, perhaps we should not add them. But I need to see how the game is after I update it first.

[Mythos_Ruler]

A correction and choice on which word to go with:

Field

Agrós

Corral

Épaulos (aule is ambiguous with just a courtyard, ktenotropheion is too long)

In playing the game I noticed that the Greek Hoplite had its full transliteration added, but the combining acute accent on the ī́ was not displaying — there was instead a box after the ī. I haven't updated my SVN recently, but if the font does not display combining acutes, perhaps we should not add them. But I need to see how the game is after I update it first.

Yeah, the font is missing a few of the necessary accented letters. We had this issue with a couple of Carthaginian names as well. Anyone have an idea how this was resolved?

Addendum:

I changed all of the <SpecificNames> per your lists. Just need one more for the Rhodian Slinger.

[feneur]

Yeah, the font is missing a few of the necessary accented letters. We had this issue with a couple of Carthaginian names as well. Anyone have an idea how this was resolved?

It was added =) I think Ben did it last time. If you know the Unicode code for that specific letter the easiest way to make sure it's done is to create a ticket called something like "Add Unicode character ###" to Trac (This was the last time I believe: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/960 So it seems it was Philip who fixed it, but Ben who reported it.)

[Ykkrosh]

In #960 the issue was that there's lots of different ways to write a character, and the font supports one way but the XML file used a different way, so I just changed the XML.

"ī́" is harder because there's no Unicode codepoint for i-macron-acute. We can't support combining characters in the current bitmap font renderer even if the font supports it (since they rely on fancy OpenType features which we can't interpret at run-time); maybe it would be best to make the renderer support multi-codepoint sequences, then we can store the combined "ī́" glyph in the bitmap and use it when necessary. It'd be good if someone could file a Trac ticket listing all the known font problems

[Erutuon]

I don't know how to create a ticket or describe the issue with full technical precision, but basically the vowels a, e, i, o, u, y with macron and acute are required by the new Greek transliteration system. E and o with macron and acute have codepoints in Unicode (ḗ, ṓ), but a, i, u, y with macron and acute do not, so I wrote them using the macron'd version (ā ī ū ȳ) with an added combining acute accent. The combining acute accent doesn't work in the game, so for these last characters we need a workaround.

If the solution chosen is multi-codepoint sequences, you might need to check if the combining acute renders well. In my browser, it renders badly: the acute on ā́ (macron'd character plus combining acute) is too high and too short when compared with the one on ḗ (macron-acute character). Hopefully that would not be true in the game, since it looks tacky.

[Erutuon]

I updated my SVN, started a game, and checked the unit names. In addition to the combining acute, the e and o with macron and acute also don't display correctly: Thracian Peltast displays as Peltast?s Thrâx and Temple as Ne?s.

[historic_bruno]

I don't know how to create a ticket or describe the issue with full technical precision

Sounds like you've summarized it well You just need to register on Trac to create a ticket.

[Ykkrosh]

Thanks for the description . I filed a ticket and will try to look into it soonish (unless someone else wants to take over the font code ).

If the solution chosen is multi-codepoint sequences, you might need to check if the combining acute renders well.

I don't know whether the font we're using supports that properly, so that'll be worth verifying. If it's ugly then I think it should be easy enough to edit the OpenType font to fix the glyph placement.

[Erutuon]

I just updated my game and the ā́ and ī́ display correctly, but the ḗ and ṓ do not. The ḗ and ṓ are the characters with dedicated codepoints. Apparently they need to be replaced by two-codepoint sequences: ḗ and ṓ. Whoever fixed ā́ and ī́, could you fix ḗ and ṓ in the same way?

Edited December 23, 2011 by Erutuon

[Ykkrosh]

Oops, I got too focused on the ā́ and forgot to check everything else . Presumably the font just doesn't include glyphs for the ḗ/ṓ codepoints. I suppose the simplest consistent solution would be to use the combining-acute in all these cases in the XML files, and I ought to set up the charset-checking script to detect these problems automatically.

[Argantonius]

I'm a native Spanish speaker and I also find the use of faux-Spanish names for the Iberians bothersome. So let's see how it could look in faux-Basque (even though the discussion on wether Iberian and Basque are related languages will probably never end). I'm no Basque speaker so I used the online dictionary of the Basque Government as a guide (and I ware you, the placement of adjectives is confusing as hell and seems to be as much in front of nouns as after them, so there are probably grammatical mistakes). Also, when confronted with multiple options I took the ones that looked less likely to be Romance loanwords/derivations)

//UNITS//

INFANTRY

Caetrati -> Falkatari (Falcata Bearer) - I admit I made this up. But I think the weapon is more distinctive than the shield.

Scutari -> Ezkutari (Shield Bearer)

Caetrati Lusitano -> Azkonari (Javelinist) - It's confusing to have both a swordsman and a ranged unit named Caetrati right now, by the way

Karsken -> Habailari (Slinger) - Uh, where does the name "Karsken" come from?

CAVALRY

Caballero Turdetano -> Azkonari Zaldiko (Mounted Javelinist) - This one needs a name change ASAP. The Spanish says "Turdetanian (i.e. Andalusian) Knight" and the English Cantabrian Cavalry!

Epones -> Lantzari (Lancer), Zalditeria (Cavalry), Zaldun (Knight)

SUPPORT UNITS

Ciudadana -> Emakume (Woman)

Sacerdotisa de Ataekina -> Emakume Apaiz (lit. "Woman Priest"), Ataekina Apaiza (Priest of Ataekina). Also checked Petrikilo (Medicine Woman) and Sorgin (Witch)

Comerciante -> Dendari (Trader)

NAVY

Unnamed Fishing Boat -> Arrantza-ontzi (Fishing Boat)

Barco -> Merkantzia-ontzia (Merchant Ship) - Wonder if "Dendari Ontzi" could be possible. Also Itsasontzi (lit. "Sea Ship") is used for bigger boats.

SIEGE

Ariete -> Ariete (Battering Ram, no other word available)

CHAMPION UNITS

Devotio -> Jaierazko (Devoted), Falkatari Jaierazko (Devoted Falcata Bearer)

Epones Devotio -> Zalditeria Jaierazko (Devoted Cavalry), Zalditeria Su-eragilea (Incendiary Cavalry, on account of the flamming javelins)

//BONUSES & SPECIAL TECHNOLOGIES//

Manadas de Caballos -> Zaldi-taldeak (Horse Herds)

El Pedregal -> Harritza (Rocky Country), Harrobi-obia (Quarry Pit) - this wouldn't be unique to the Iberians, but I find the name "Rocky Country" strange for a technology

Mercenario -> Mertzenarioak (Mercenaries) - couldn't think of another word

Falarica del Fuego -> Azkon Su-eragilea (Incendiary Javelin)

Maestros Herreros -> Errementari Maisuak (Master Smiths), Iberiako Altzairu (Iberian Steel), Altzairu Berezi (Alloy Steel)

Tactica Guerrilla -> G(u)errilla is the only option. Well, even though Spanish and modern the term can be considered universal nowadays, no? (BTW, the proper Spanish grammar of the original would be Táctica Guerrillera or Guerra de Guerrillas, or just Guerrilla)

//STRUCTURES//

Oppidum -> Hiri (City)

Casa -> Etxe (House)

Hacienda -> Baserri (Farm, Farmstead)

Huerta -> Baratze (Orchard)

Corral -> Eskorta (Corral)

Centro de Recursos -> Biltegi (Warehouse)

Torre Iberica -> Dorre Biribil (Round Tower), Zaitze-dorrea (Watch Tower)

Puerto -> Kai (Dock)

Templo -> Jainkotegi (Temple, Sanctuary - lit. "God(s) Place")

Cuartel -> Kaserna (Barracks)

Mercado -> Azoka (Market)

Muro Ancho -> Horma (Wall), Horma Zabala (Wide Wall), Harresi (Stonewall, as in castles and such)

Puerta Mortal -> Ate (Gate), Ate Hilgarria (Deadly Gate), Ate Mingarria (Killing Gate), Ate Bikoitza (Double Gate)

Castro -> Gotorleku (Fortress)

Monumento Venerado -> Oroigarri (Monument), Oroigarri Jauresle (Worshipped Monument), Hilobi-oroigarri (Funerary Monument), Errege-hilobi (Royal Tomb), Asaben Hilobia (Ancestors Tomb), Asaben Oroigarria (Ancestors Monument)

EDIT: Forgot this:

Torre -> Harresi Dorrea (Wall Tower), Dorre Karratua (Square Tower)

Edited December 29, 2011 by Argantonius

[Argantonius]

BTW, isn't it strange that there no Iberian mounted swordsman? I though it was supposed to be a cavalry-strong civ.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Argantonius

[Mythos_Ruler]

BTW, isn't it strange that there no Iberian mounted swordsman? I though it was supposed to be a cavalry-strong civ.

There's an Iberian cavalry swordsman for the Carthaginians. I think originally they didn't want to double up the same unit for two different factions.

[Spahbod]

Sogdian Archer's name is "Sugda Thanuvaniya" not "Sugda Thanvabara". Also Indian elephants must be translated "Hinduya Pila".

[Argantonius]

There's an Iberian cavalry swordsman for the Carthaginians. I think originally they didn't want to double up the same unit for two different factions.

There must be another reason. After all the Carts can also make Celtic cavalry and Balearic slingers.

Dunno, if the problem is that cavalry swordsmen and lancers would only be different in appearance, what about making one of them a champion unit with a bonus vs buildings, and get rid of the rams instead (since the Iberians didn't have siege machines historically)? - well, excuse me if I'm being weary with this issue, but I've tried to defeat an Iberian player for two hours today again and each time he seemed to be on the verge of defeat he just spammed castros and an army of rams and flattened my troops. Geez, couldn't the patch preventing that come out before the next alpha?.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Sogdian Archer's name is "Sugda Thanuvaniya" not "Sugda Thanvabara". Also Indian elephants must be translated "Hinduya Pila".

Fixed. Thanks.

There must be another reason. After all the Carts can also make Celtic cavalry and Balearic slingers.

It's because we added the Iberian slinger and the Cart Celtic Cav units long after the civ profiles were finished*.

Addressing your other point, we'll likely adjust the unit attack AI so that Rams and most other siege weapons don't auto-attack meat units and instead attack buildings.

*They're never really finished. We can continue to adjust them.

[SMST]

About the Caballero Turdetano thing: It was me who made these units for personal use, and they were orignially not be intended to be used in the official version. They got included in the latest Alpha by courtesy of the devs, and the name (of whom I know was not accurate, but didn't bother to research, since I wasn't aware that anyone else would see this) got carried with the unit template. But they were inspired by an image of Cantabrian Cavalry (I think from a TW mod), which is why I gave them that generic name. I am glad this error is corrected.

Oh, an I am all in favor of getting a Iberian Cswordman in, and kicking the double Caetratus out in its favor. Perhaps the Iswordman could get a secondary/initial javelin attack, just like there are plans of giving the Roman infantry some. Then we could lose the Ijavelinist.

Also, I was amazed to get a representation of the elongated/stressed vocals in the Greek transcription. Though the name for the fortress shouldn't be "Teíkhisma", but "Teíchisma".

[Mythos_Ruler]

Also, I was amazed to get a representation of the elongated/stressed vocals in the Greek transcription. Though the name for the fortress shouldn't be "Teíkhisma", but "Teíchisma".

Is there a 'c' in the Ancient Greek alphabet? I think not.

[SMST]

Is there a 'c' in the Ancient Greek alphabet? I think not.

There is a "Chi" (χ), representing the aspriated voiceless plosive sound, that the English language, to my knowledge, doesn't have. But in the transcripts I know, it is represented by "ch" (which represents the aspirated voiceless plosive in German).

[Mythos_Ruler]

The SpecificNames for the Greeks are supposed to be transliterations (I thought so anyway). What's the Greek for Teikhisma/Teichisma? Does it use Kappa or Chi?

[SMST]

I'ts τείχισμα - and I wouldn't suggest the change, if it was otherwise.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I'ts τείχισμα - and I wouldn't suggest the change, if it was otherwise.

ok ok.

[SMST]

I know it's minor, but can you change "Gallic Dun" to "Fürstensitz?"

"Fürstensitz" is Modern German, meaning "lord's seat". No Celtic or ancient connections at all.

[tribalbeat]

"Fürstensitz" is Modern German, meaning "lord's seat". No Celtic or ancient connections at all.

Really? I thought it was Gallic for the type of fortress for a lord. I knew it worked in modern German though. Ah well.

[Ykkrosh]

I just updated my game and the ā́ and ī́ display correctly, but the ḗ and ṓ do not.

This should be fixed in r10840. It looks like

which is hopefully good enough for now. (The combining acute on the i-macron is too far to the left, but I can't fix that without changing the engine code to support something like kerning pairs, and I'd rather not bother unless it annoys people too much...)