ships Naval Boarding - seizure of ships

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

21 hours ago, Thalatta said:

(again, techs shouldn't be like that, but actual developments from the period).

 

I agree with that. It should be something that exists to provide greater immersion.

+++

 

On the other hand, I've considered training marines on ships, similar to how the Athenian marines already operate, but aside from some bonuses, I don't know how to make it work.

http://amodelcastillo.blogspot.com/2018/03/la-armada-imperial-de-roma-rangos-y.html?m=1

 

Milites Classiarii for example.

 

We also have the Nautae They are ordinary sailors; they too participated in the combat.

[Thalatta]

54 minutes ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

training marines on ships, similar to how the Athenian marines already operate

Which is a huge misconception this game also incurs, as explained in Thoughts on the Athenians :P. That they were good at sea doesn't mean regarding their "marines", but their fast ramming ships used to disable enemy ones, which, ironically, needed to have the least amount possible of deck soldiers to be swift. Thus, not only there's nothing characteristic about them, but they didn't rely on them and used as few as possible (so having them as a "champion" Athenian unit is as misleading as it could be, and why I proposed the Tachunautousa Triērēs instead). The real secret of Athenian success at sea was not just how ships were lightly built, but their expert oarsmen, drawn mostly from the low thḗtēs class, who would train all their lives expecting to be good enough to be selected by some trierarch to man the oars of a navy vital for Athens, which brought them prestige, thus more leverage and participation, in their nascent democratic system.

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

1 hour ago, Thalatta said:

Which is a huge misconception this game also incurs, as explained in Thoughts on the Athenians :P. That they were good at sea doesn't mean  regarding their "marines", 

I forgot the greek name... Epibatai (?)

My idea is to launch maritime invasion operations and carry out raids; I was thinking about that yesterday when I was showing you the riverboats.

The ship trains troops on board before launching "Blitzkrieg" operations.

I like that concept so that ships aren't so boring.

I'm going to leave a channel I follow with a couple of thoughts.

 

 

[Thalatta]

4 minutes ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

I forgot the greek name... Epibatai (?)

Yes, although not very precisely, since it could refer in general to any passenger carried on deck.

 

4 minutes ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

The ship trains troops on board before launching "Blitzkrieg" operations.

I like that concept so that ships aren't so boring.

I proposed an Hoplitagogos (Hoplite Carrier) tech to increase the garrisons of Threes for certain civs like Spartans, Achaemenids (in their language) and coming Thebans, to improve their boarding chances. Maybe instead this could be used to train infantry on ships, but one has to be careful not to end with a boarding force spawn. I think I didn't mention the Hippagogos (Horse Carrier), to have it in mind also.

[Nicolaus_von_Kues]

10 minutes ago, Thalatta said:

boarding force spawn

Good point.

That's why malfunctions and potential exploits should be addressed. 

PD: I need someone to give me perspectives I'm missing. Feedback is very welcome. That way I can develop my idea.

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, Nicolaus_von_Kues said:

Many relevant points are raised there:

"If your ships cannot reach your opponent, they become obsolete quickly, unless they give you access to resources": which is why a salvage system would work nicely. Unwanted ships were used from building early temples to laying the ground for port extensions, and when Rome controlled the whole Mediterranean the huge Hellenistic ships disappeared (along with the knowledge of how to build them).

"The game designer has to answer a painful question: how important should water actually be?": if the game pretends to have any semblance of historicity for its time period, the answer is obvious (for plenty of civs at least). He also describes at the beginning proper naval combat as having a good variety of ships, already proposed, and currently lacking and inaccurate.

"Large warships should feel heavy, they take time to turn, and they also occupy a lot of space, and that’s what makes them insanely cool": which is why I find the puzzling proposals to shrink their size a big step towards blandness and mediocrity.

"Amphibious landing should create an exciting D-day moment but, you know, players just have to lead every unit manually, then protect that transport and find a safe coast, and then unload manually once again": a real struggle, which is why, among other uses, I proposed Target Area:

On 09/09/2026 at 7:50 PM, Thalatta said:

54) Target Area: this button concept could reduce micro in many situations. The size of the pointer would change to an adjustable circle (maybe using the hotkeys that rotate structures) in which the action performed at the centre of it would also be repeated whenever possible inside that circle. This can be used for things like gathering, hunting, combat, garrison, boarding, repair, etc. I think there's a PR for something similar regarding just combat, but this generalises that idea. For example, one could order to hunt all animals inside that adjustable area, in that order, by queuing. One could garrison all towers inside that area, or repair all that needs to be repaired inside it. Ideally, units would get more evenly distributed according to available slots. This would make ship boarding much faster, and the landing spot could be converted to a landing area with this tool, for ships to distribute themselves alongside the coast inside it.

"Water must connect different parts of the strategy, ships should support land attacks, and of course, you should have  some real incentive to actually play for that water control. A player who loses the sea should suffer but should always have ways to respond": indeed, water should offer rewards without being snowbally. While the Greeks and others were not that big in fishing, maritime trade should be way more efficient than it is now (as should be maritime looting). I already criticised the Trader and Merchantmen capacity being the same. If one loses all control of the water (a situation usually hard to reverse), but has plenty of resources, maybe an expensive Mercenary Pirate force could be hired (from the Market or something, no Dock needed), to be able to reclaim part of the sea (this would work nicely with my proposal of Mercenaries having temporary contracts instead of being permanently trained like other units).

"Water, of course, needs some real terrain. Things like shallow water reefs, islands, maybe some weather-like storm, visual blockers and several narrow routes that can create positioning decisions": 0 A.D. does have some implicit water depths, but the variety of "terrains" should be increased. Reefs are a good idea (I wonder if they could deal some damage to ships, and slow them down), and hopefully some weather is coming.

[Obelix]

3 hours ago, Thalatta said:

as explained in Thoughts on the Athenians :P.

Quote

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make an easy but powerful global information system.

 

[Thalatta]

@Obelix I just didn't want to constantly shove that link on people's faces, but issues that have already been addressed in Thoughts of the Spartans/Athenians come up way too often