What are your settings against AI ?

[LienRag]

I played a lot of lame games against AI but now I begin to understand how to make 0ad games more interesting.

So I'd like to ask what settings players use to make their AI games interesting ?

The problem I have is that too little AIs make the game boring, but too much make their first attack nearly impossible to repel without cheating, so in both cases the gameplay is boring.

I guess that some cheating may be fine against more than 3 opponents (all allied; games against non-allied opponents are too random) but I don't know which exactly will make the game fun (basically, some wood with "bring me my axe" to get some palisades in order to survive the first attack and then counter-attack I guess, but how much would be reasonable ?).

[Deicide4u]

Nowadays, I always play against Hard Balanced AI. I've tried playing against the Hardest, but found no major difference in difficulty. There's also Petra Expert AI mod if you need more challenge.

The AI gets bonus gathering speed at levels greater than Medium. It also trains larger armies more quickly. However, you will beat it easily if you're a decent player.

[jwrona]

Hard AI - Random behavior. Pop either 200, 300 (testing strats for multiplayer), or unlimited (for just monster war fun). Starting RSS Low or Normal. 

1 hour ago, LienRag said:

The problem I have is that too little AIs make the game boring, but too much make their first attack nearly impossible to repel without cheating, so in both cases the gameplay is boring.

When it's on Hard mode - they've got a 25% gather buff, so they WILL have an army before you, 99% of the time. I find it helps to train a few cav (typically 5-7) at around 30-pop to do more hunting for food, but also to tank the first attack so archers/javs can knock it out. That first attack isn't usually more than a few units, so you can quickly grab everyone to fight it then return to work. 

I've found as well, after watching some people in my multiplayer games, town setup matters. A storehouse on a border woodline WILL distract any troops controlled by AI enough for you to gather the forces to repel. houses close together helps break up a formation and funnel troops in one-by-one rather than a mass blob. 

Hope that helps.

[LienRag]

Thanks.

I wasn't aware of difficulty levels for the AI.

I really dislike cheating AIs, though. What is the highest level where it doesn't cheat ?

Note also that I'm absolutely not asking for advice on how to play against AI. I like discovering myself what works, it's the most enjoyable part of the game.

 

My question was about how many AI opponent to choose (eventually, how many allies too - allies are good for trade, but it's quite random how long they survive, which is something I don't really like).

And, for high level of opponents, what level of cheating (additionnal resources mostly) is acceptable and makes for a game that is both fun and challenging.

Edited 23 hours ago by LienRag
fixing typo

[LienRag]

4 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

 There's also Petra Expert AI mod if you need more challenge.

What is it ?

I wasn't aware of it...

Does it cheat ? As written above, I don't like that.

[Deicide4u]

27 minutes ago, LienRag said:

What is it ?

It's a mod with better AI. Check the mods in the Mod dowloader. You might first try winning against a unmodded Medium AI, though. 

It's the highest non-cheating difficulty that still can pose a good challenge if you procrastinate and let it build up.

[Gurken Khan]

Since back then (AOE2) I liked one ally and four enemies. Makes every game different. And teaming the enemies up boosts the difficulty.

 

2 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

It's the highest non-cheating difficulty

Did you somewhere establish what "non-cheating" is? I consider "all seeing" cheating, so... (Not complaining, just saying.)

[Deicide4u]

6 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Did you somewhere establish what "non-cheating" is?

"Non-cheating" here implies that the AI doesn't get gather rate bonus. "All seeing" is a cheat, but it is a technical trade off for not having to give the AI complex scouting logic. 

I don't care if the AI sees everything, but I do care if it gets significant resource advantage.

[LienRag]

All-seeing is a cheat and a bad one, but from what I've been told there's no way to avoid it.

[Deicide4u]

30 minutes ago, LienRag said:

there's no way to avoid it.

There is no easy way to utilize it. 

You'd have to write a lot of dynamic and flexible logic that will account for various scenarios.

You first need to periodically send an unit to scout, this is an easy part.

Now you need to account for what that scout saw, if anything. If he saw that you have a lot of civilians and few Citizen Soldiers, it may opt for a rush, for example. If he saw a tower and not much else, the AI should opt for a more defensive, booming strategy.

Then you need a general build order (what we have now) to account for no adequate scouting info.

If you did all this, then you have to write a dynamic strategy shifting based on info from further scouting as the match goes on. People have spent years perfecting AI strategies in some of the more popular RTSs, like Brood War. These AIs can play on levels far above the average player. And this is for a tactical RTS with 2 resources, 3 races and 11-13 units per race.

Imagine what kind of code you'd need to account for all civs and units that we have.

Edited 2 hours ago by Deicide4u