Realistic Naval Warfare

[erik_hobag]

What does "Realistic Naval Warfare" mean? How is it gonna work? will men stand on the ships and fight? I am a little confused..

[Radagast]

I like how Rise and Fall Civilizations at War uses ships. In that game, ships are basically mobile platforms for archers, infantry, and siege equipment. They can board other ships, ram them, or shell them with artillery. While they are not ideal (variety stinks, there are only three types of ships of which the only difference is their size) Rise and Fall's ships are a gigantic step foreward from say, Age of Empires.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Similar to "Rise and Fall" and "Sparta Ancient Wars". But the one thing I didnt like about either title was that the ships seemed hard to control. Hopefully its something we can remedy. Shops will ram and fire at each other. Boarding will also be an option, with the strongest boarding party succeeding in taking over the weaker's ship.

[MrBlack103]

awesome!

So how many units will a decent ship be able to carry? And will you be able to move your units around on the decks of ships?

I also had an idea that the bigger ships need to land their troops with small dinghys, or else they just run aground

[Mythos_Ruler]

1.) You're probably looking at anywhere from 10-20 units garrisonable per ship. Not sure.

2.) You will not be able to move your units on deck. At least not in 0 A.D. Part 1. However, they will be there and archers can fire from the decks at enemy ships.

3.) Nah, in this period of time ships were very shallow draft and even a lot of times were pulled up onto a beach. I don't think we'll show this aspect though.

[MrBlack103]

Could you make it so the units disembark only one or two at a time, then? I'm sick of transports that just touch land and then forty units suddenly appear.

Also, will siege engines take up more room on vessels? I'm also sick of a single skiff being able to carry 40 trebuchets.

Edited May 31, 2008 by MrBlack103

[Mythos_Ruler]

Different units cost different "garrison" amounts. So, a big unit, such as a siege engine, takes up more garrison room than a single infantryman.

[MrBlack103]

So, ideally, a cavalry unit would be roughly equal to two infantrymen?

[Aeros]

Something like that, yes. And I'm with you on transports materializing 40 units in one second, you're right, a transport should be vulnerable when the units disembark, it should require time and space to set up so the player would need to defend it, since if the units came out one by one they would easily get slaughtered by a good raiding party. Thats something we definately could try out

[MrBlack103]

Good, I hated how in AoK and AoE there was virtually no need to establish a beach-head.

[Villi]

I hope there is some sort of randomizing with this bording option, and it don't boil down to amassing the strongest boarding party possible and simply taking any other ship. Also will you be able to capture the ships you board? Perhaps the losing part could have a small chanse of setting fire to the ship, making it unusable to the capturing player (Perhaps damaged beyond fighting capability, but repairable?)?

[Apomonomenos]

I REALLY hope there will be realistic ships in the game. I'm aussi tired of AoM version of shooting arrows at another ship, for god's sake ARROWS DON'T SINK SHIPS!!!!! Even a 1st grader would know that. Also, I'm also tired of the made-up-ships, like the "Hammer-ship" or the "Ballista-ship" (The names of those ships (in the Greek navy) were real names of ships, only of different periods EX the Jauggernaut, it was a cannon ship around the late17th-early18th century, not a ballista bolt-throwing ship around 3rd century BC)

And I really want to ram other ships with a trireme and watch other soldiers being flung into their watery grave.

Naval battles was such a big part of Military Conquests, that the Romans had fitted their Collesiums to be able to hold water to reinact Great battles!

[MrEmjeR]

only fire arrows can set ships in fire. I suggest this system:

Ships cost very much population (cuz all the slaves who row the ships)

sailing

boats are not the fasted units in the game, something faster then infantery(depend on the size)but much slower then infantry

they sail not in one time their full speed but it has to "accelerate"

triremes cant rotate fast (what i hate in aom/aok/aoe)

there also are fishing ships and small transport ships who are more flexible in steering

I find there must be rowboats for one to 4 people (those are of course very slow and weak)

garrison

what mythos ruler said before was very good so

there can be upto 40 poulation in the triremes and in small transportships upto 20(and no siege)

people who are garrisoned are visible on the decks unless u have a roofed ship

fighting

a normal ship cant fight! only if there are units garrisoned inside

also fishing ships can contain a archer or javelin thrower

achers an javelin throwers can shoot arrows to other ships to kill the people on the deck.

there has to be an upgrade for ships so they has fire baskets inside an then they can shoot fire arrows and burn the other ships down.

transport ships can also fight if there are people inside

ramming

a trireme can only ram one time in into an other boat

the damage is ramdom: the other ship sinks or is only heavy damaged

if there are people on the other decks most of them fall into the water

entering

a other ship can also be entered! this is only possible if theres infantry inside

there are special ships(i cant remeber the name) who has long planks wich can be put on other ships so soldiers can run over and enter the ship.

if all people garrisoned in a ship are killed the ship becames yours

you can also steel a ship if it is on the beach

[Apomonomenos]

@ EmjeR

Good idea with attacking & turning

But for fishing, the sailor should have to buy his/her own bow/javelin, because it would be irritating to have to defend your fishing boats by using your own men!

But for sailing, Triremes were very fast. They would not only use the wind, but have 3 rows of slaves, so it would almost glide on the water.

[formlesstree4]

@ EmjeR

Good idea with attacking & turning

But for fishing, the sailor should have to buy his/her own bow/javelin, because it would be irritating to have to defend your fishing boats by using your own men!

But for sailing, Triremes were very fast. They would not only use the wind, but have 3 rows of slaves, so it would almost glide on the water.

Someone knows more history about boating then I ever would.... <<< Me trying to learn history

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think the modern Trireme, The Olympias, reached 28 knots in open waters under oar power. That was with a relatively untrained crew.

[MrEmjeR]

ye your right but it's realy unreal if it goes the full speed in one second!

and but what do u find of a rowboat for a few people, it could be usefull for scenario's!

[feneur]

Exactly how long time you want it to take is of course very subjective and personal, but since the game hardly has a 1:1 ratio of in-game time compared to real time I don't find it too unrealistic if it just takes a second to achieve full speed. True, perhaps it should be something like 5-10 seconds to be more realistic, but I personally don't the think the relatively small added realism is worth the "cost" in programming and perhaps also confusion among players that the game might seem laggy.

[MrEmjeR]

srry but i meant with one second that it happend imediatly

I think 2 or 3 seconds is enough

[plumo]

I think it is quite logical that the ships look quite the same, in fact they were almost the same. Copied from designs invented in Eastern Mediterrenean Sea, Greeks and Phoenicians, ...

Second: Will the ROmans be able to add inventions to their ships? Like a falling bridge to adhere to the other ship? Or a small tower fo archers.

It was because of these "bridges" that the romans were able to defeat Carthagian vessels, from which they copied the Trireme's design.

[MrEmjeR]

about that bridge is what i said before

but you have to remember that the roman time is in the second release part of the game

[Apomonomenos]

Wait, so are the Romans only available in Part 2?

Because Rome was built definitely at least 400 years before Christ (BC)

[Mythos_Ruler]

Part 1: Republican Romans

Part 2: Imperial Romans

[Apomonomenos]

<Acting like a 100% Democrat>

How about Part 1-Democratic Romans &

Part 2-Imperial Romans?

XD

[Silver]

How about Part 1-Democratic Romans &

Part 2-Imperial Romans?

Rome used to be a Republic and it's a very primitive democracy.