Normal maps

[nifa]

When adding a normal map in the actor file and using the material <player_trans_norm_spec>, I still don't see any change in Atlas. What could be the reason? Is my normal map too weak? Does Atlas not include normal maps?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 minutes ago, nifa said:

When adding a normal map in the actor file and using the material <player_trans_norm_spec>, I still don't see any change in Atlas. What could be the reason? Is my normal map too weak? Does Atlas not include normal maps?

That is one of the correct materials to use. Can you post the normal map here?

[nifa]

2 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

That is one of the correct materials to use. Can you post the normal map here?

[vladislavbelov]

1 hour ago, nifa said:

Does Atlas not include normal maps?

Just in case make sure you're using OpenGL or Vulkan backend and Shader effects set at least to 3.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Right, make sure your graphics options are turned up.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, nifa said:

May I suggest a critique of the normal map itself? I think it looks very busy. Perhaps reduce the noise level?

[nifa]

15 hours ago, vladislavbelov said:

Just in case make sure you're using OpenGL or Vulkan backend and Shader effects set at least to 3.

Thanks, I think it was the shader effects. I didn't know about what that option does.

Does the normal map with this material only work if there is a spec texture as well? When I add just a normal texture but no spec texture I don't get any error message, but I don't see any effects.

14 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

May I suggest a critique of the normal map itself? I think it looks very busy. Perhaps reduce the noise level?

Sure, I'm thankful for any tips. This was just a first try, using desaturation and filter-> general -> normal map on the diffuse texture in Gimp. I will try to dive deeper into it. This tutorial https://i.imgur.com/lpC4V6B.jpg tells me I should edit the grey picture accordingly.

Let me know if you have any further guidance

[vladislavbelov]

1 hour ago, nifa said:

Does the normal map with this material only work if there is a spec texture as well? When I add just a normal texture but no spec texture I don't get any error message, but I don't see any effects.

IIRC we should log such cases, maybe it's in log files. The game uses normal and specular textures together, so we don't support separate materials anymore (that's the way to go PBR). But you always can set a default texture to norm or spec.

1 hour ago, nifa said:

Sure, I'm thankful for any tips. This was just a first try, using desaturation and filter-> general -> normal map on the diffuse texture in Gimp. I will try to dive deeper into it. This tutorial https://i.imgur.com/lpC4V6B.jpg tells me I should edit the grey picture accordingly.

Let me know if you have any further guidance

I can recommend to avoid too sharp normal textures (when neighbor pixels have opposite values, in other words normals look in opposite directions). See also technical art requirements (made by me, converted to wiki format by Stan): https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/TechnicalArtRequirements

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 hours ago, nifa said:

Sure, I'm thankful for any tips. This was just a first try, using desaturation and filter-> general -> normal map on the diffuse texture in Gimp. I will try to dive deeper into it. This tutorial https://i.imgur.com/lpC4V6B.jpg tells me I should edit the grey picture accordingly.

Yep, a better way is to create a gray scale height map, where darker tones are "lower" and lighter tones are "higher." Then covert that height map with the normal map filter. You could use the old normal map as a kind of detail layer over your new normal map, but set at like 20% opacity, maybe. Depends on how it looks. 

[nifa]

5 hours ago, vladislavbelov said:

IIRC we should log such cases, maybe it's in log files. The game uses normal and specular textures together, so we don't support separate materials anymore (that's the way to go PBR). But you always can set a default texture to norm or spec.

sorry, false alert, I get an error message now for missing specTex in the actor file. Seems like shader effect 5.03 was not enough, but with maximum 10 it works.

 

5 hours ago, vladislavbelov said:

I can recommend to avoid too sharp normal textures (when neighbor pixels have opposite values, in other words normals look in opposite directions). See also technical art requirements (made by me, converted to wiki format by Stan): https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/TechnicalArtRequirements

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Yep, a better way is to create a gray scale height map, where darker tones are "lower" and lighter tones are "higher." Then covert that height map with the normal map filter. You could use the old normal map as a kind of detail layer over your new normal map, but set at like 20% opacity, maybe. Depends on how it looks. 

thanks, I will keep it both in mind

[nifa]

I see an effect of the normal map in Atlas only when there is direct light on the texture, not in the shadows. Why is that?

[Stan`]

That's because of the way normal maps are computed. They deform the light. No light no deformation

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 04/12/2023 at 1:28 PM, nifa said:

I see an effect of the normal map in Atlas only when there is direct light on the texture, not in the shadows. Why is that?

Stan is correct. To see an effect even in shadow, you need parallax. Luckily the game uses the alpha channel of the normal map for parallax, so it's just a basic height map.