Mod Announcment - Colonial A.D. : Conquer the World...again

Abadu · October 15, 2006

Yeh,i know about mabobo,we can call the clubman this,but do you have any sugestion for the mapuches?

Also,tupi realy looks cool,but 1 problem is that most of the warriors only carried a bow,but with a bit of creativity we will can make a very interesting civ

About your sugestions:Since many civs are hard to make,i was planing to make indians by "regions",as tupi for amazonia,kayapo for the inner parts of brazil,mapuche and inca to andes,aztev to mexico,maia to central america,seminole for southeast US,sioux for great plains,iroquois for east US,inuit for the north,haida for nortwest and north and hawaii for a "diferent" one,but i was thinking in the cree,taino,cherokee and klamath,but unfortunaly is very hard to found pictures to base their units(someone here can help?)

FirePowa8 · October 16, 2006

I know the Klamath wore and likely still wear a variety of unique hats. Also the AOE3 War Chiefs history section on the Klamath Rifleman unit describes how the Klamath held off against invaders longer than most natives by using a variety of European weapons, such as muskets and rifles. They seemed to wear quite heavy/warm clothing typically.

Here are some ideas we can get with making their soldiers look distinctive and accurate:

This site shows numerous Cree people. It does show a little clothing - http://www.axel-jacob.de/cree_foto.html

This is the AOE3 representation of the Cree, seems quite accurate judging by neighbouring tribes.

This picture shows Ojibway and Shawnee warriors and a Cree woman:

The Ojibway soldier seems to wear a similar costume to the Crees.

As for the Cherokee, as you know they became a very European nation, partly for good, partly for bad. Here's an image of a rifleman in traditional gear:

Finally, this site has some useful Taino images: http://www.presenciataina1.org/

And apparently, unlike as the Spanish have been saying for years, the Taino aren't an extinct race.

Abadu · October 18, 2006

Of those,the most interesting are the taino,cherokee and cree;i guess we could include them,latter i can make a better research(the dificultt thing is that i cant find many cherokee images)

Abadu · November 2, 2006

It will be posted latter

Edited November 10, 2006 by Abadu

Abadu · November 3, 2006

It will be posted latter

Edited November 11, 2006 by Abadu

Abadu · November 7, 2006

Here are the nations more organized:

-ENGLAND

-Infantry

-Cavalry

King's german legion light dragoon

-Unique ships

-Buildings

-FRANCE

-Infantry

-Cavalry

-Buildings

-SPAIN

-Infantry

-Cavalry

Cazadores de Olivenza

Lancero

Conquistador

-Buildings

Buildings

-PORTUGAL

-Infantry

-Cavalry

-Unique ships

-Buildings

-NETHERLAND

-Infantry

-Cavalry

Belgian light dragoon

-Unique ship

-Buildings

-ITALY

-Infantry

Morosini lifegaurd halberdier(infantry) and carabinier(cavalry)

-Cavalry

Piedmontese light cavalry

Stradiot

Hussar(The second one)

Elmeti

-Buildings

Buildings

-RUSSIA

-Infantry

-Cavalry

Ukrainian cossacks and hetman

-Artillery

Licorne howitzer

-Buildings

Buildings

-SWEDEN

-Infantry

Pikeman,lifeguard shooter and rondachier

-Cavalry

Livgardet till hast(royal guard)

-Buidings

-GERMANY

-Infantry

-Cavalry

Saxony Garde du corps

Hussite War wagon

Totemkopf hussar

Austrian chevauxleger

-Buildings

Buildings

-OTTOMAN EMPIRE

-Infantry

-Cavalry

-Buildings

-POLAND

-Infantry

-Cavalry

-Buildings

Edited November 23, 2006 by Abadu

FirePowa8 · November 9, 2006

Great posts, Abadu!

I suppose we should figure out the confirmed amount of civilizations possible. I guess we could start out with few and release expansions overtime.

I think we should start off with

Spain

France

Nederlands

Britain

Ottomans

Inca

Portuguese

Taino

and advance it overtime.

Abadu · November 9, 2006

Thanks :shrug:

And yes,its best we start with few civs are latter release the others,but i think in this civs for start:

Spain

England

Portugal

France

Netherlands

Tupi

Aztec

Inca

Iroquois

And will the natives be full civs or like AOE III(But better,with a normal AI and special things)?

Edited November 10, 2006 by Abadu

FirePowa8 · November 11, 2006

I think we should have some natives as full civs (like the Inca), and others as mercenaries, or tribes ala AOE3.

I was thinking that the first installment could probably be based around South America/MesoAmerica. Maybe we could exchange Britain for the Tupi, and the Ottomans for a colonist country (they can appear in the next one with the French, British, Iroquois, Cherokee etc.). That could be a middle installment. The final one could have the Sioux, Apache, USA, Mexico as well as some South American countries.

Abadu · November 11, 2006

I was thinking in something like this:They would be like the AoE III natives,but with many diferent warriors,buildings,AI(They would forge alliances,collect resources),they would have special resources,many unique techs,etc;You could conquer them or allie to train units,research,build special buildings(with native settlers),but have them as major nations would be very unique and good.I guess that have them as ful nations is best

And the civs can be like this:

Vannila:The new world

-Portugal

-Spain

-Italy

-Dutch(They invaded brazil and had great battles with the ports and brazilians)

-Ottomans

-Tupi

-Inca

-Maya

-Aztec

-Kayapó

-Mapuche

Chocolate:Age of colonization

-England

-France

-Sweden

-Russia

-Iroquois

-Russia

-Seminole

-Haida

-Germany

Strawberry:Rise of independents

-USA

-Brazil

-Argentina

-Mexico

-Canada

-Xavante

-Sioux

-Inuit

-Hawaiians

-Poland

What you think?

Also,what about every civ have diferent bonuses like AoE III?I will think in some(If you have ideas,say)

Belisarivs · November 11, 2006

I can't resist to ask what will be purpose of indians in this mod.

To give opportunity to the player to test how much time it will take his Husaria to cut them to the banners?

Will anybody be willing to play indians even though they are heavily technologically inferior to europeans?

I'd make natives to provide some auxiliary mercenary troops and that would be all.

Indians proved to be unable to match their european opponents in open battle unless heavily superior in numbers.

You'll have to screw realism and make indians more powerful so they are able to be somehow on par with their opponents (but it looks weird, have a look at AoK, Aztecs didn't use pikes, xbows and trebuchets, and even Aztec champion looks weird, needless to say, that jaguar warriors, despite their skill, simply couldn't beat heavy spanish infantry with such ease), allow them to heavily outnumber their enemy (but you'll have to face limitations of game engine) or expect them to lose anytime (which is rather bad idea).

Tactics to beat enemy by exhaustive skirmishes could work against AI, but definitely not against human player who will just avoid this and lay siege of players city which will turn in open battle and force indians to defend against besieger and thus lose advantage of skirmish tactics.

Abadu · November 11, 2006

Well,i think that the indians where more "corageus"(fight untill die,dont rout) them the europeans;The indians used guerrila tatics,they knew about the terrian,since its their homeland;But i dont see why the coundt be full nations,look:In 0AD,why will be ablle to kill the romans ever time with gauls,we will be able to make the perisans kil alexander,we can make a battlew betwen iberians and persians!The strategy games are always about this:WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF the persians win gaugamela?What if the gauls kill Caesar?What if the aztecs didnt think that Cortez was good?What if the incas wherent affected bu diseases?

For me,there isnt problem in make them full nations,i mean,0 AD will have many "special" tatics,so what would be the problem if the indians had some tatical advantages?Take a look at the AoE III 3 full native civs,are they too much historical incorrete?

EDIT:What you need to make to they fix your topic?i have a idea for another mod...

Edited November 11, 2006 by Abadu

Belisarivs · November 11, 2006

I don't believe, that indians were more courageous. I'd say, that europeans were far more disciplined.

I'm not against indians in mod, but wonder why. I didn't play AoE III.

That "What if" is good, but that isn't what I want to point out. Indians were just much weaker than europeans and whole Aztec empire was conquered by rather small contingent of soldiers. Unlike Gauls or Persians, who weren't deffeated because they were weak. They were deffeated because they stood against most briliant commanders of the world. Gauls had horsemen and strong warriors and Persians had exellent cavalry. What had indians? They didn't know wheel, iron and horses. They were just naked men with wooden or obsidian clubs and spears. Yes, there was military class of skilled warriors, but Europeans had them too and all those technological advantages.

Why should indians have tactical advantage? Yes, they were defending own land, but in MP, they will also have to attack the opponent. And he will use scouts a lot, too. Which military units will indians have available? Variation of spearman and bowman and perhaps some javelinman and clubman. Nothing else. No cavalry, no gunpowder, no cuirasses and no other metal equipment.

I want to point out, that creation of 1 texture needs lot of time. When you want to have at least 3 variations, it takes three times more. And you have only one unit. And what now? You want at least 5-10 different units for each nation. Time consumption is growing even further. And, you plan 20-30 nations each with different units.

Do you get what I want to point out? What was done untill now? Nothing. Yes, your research is valuable, no doubt about it, but simply, texturing itself is pretty heavy and time consuming. And indians are imho waste of time for now. I'd concentrate on 5 key nations, discuss them heavily, get some skills and make them perfect. Then will time show if it is possible to achieve more.

I don't want to say, that indians are waste of time and useless at all. But want to point out, that none actually is working on mod (I mean creation of models and textures) and expectations are too high for now. You can feel very unhappy with mod progress because there is planned too many nations which will take ages to create. I'd feel happier with two perfectly made nations than with bunch of unfinished and incorrectly depicted ones. That is my point of view.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Belisarivs

Abadu · November 11, 2006

I understand your point,its very hard to create models,i know,please,forgive me for be unable to work with graphics :shrug:

But hey,im just pointing ideas,i mean,its best to have everthing planned early,dont you think?

But talking about indians:You said that the aztecs where conquered by few spanish soldier,but you forget about the thousands of tlaxcalan allies,the bad king,the legend of quetzalcoat and the diseases(strong point);You said that they coudnt last for many time,but the mapuches fought for 300 years against the spanish.You also said that they had only stone weapons,but the incas had cooper and the tlaxcalans where starting to produce metals(i forgot the english word) when the conquistadors arrive.Some indians had cavalry(sioux,mapuche,iroquois) and a lot had gunpowder(mapuche,sioux,hawaiians,iroquois,huron,tupi,almost even tribe that resisted for a short time had at least some people with muskets and european weapons that where traded with the europeans)

We dont need to make them ful nations,we can make them as AoE,which you build a trading post in a settlement and can train 1-2 units and research 3 techs,but we need to make it better,lets say,with a AI(They could forge alliances,more techs,more units...).Just few natives would work as full nations(The incas and aztecs,but the people forget the incas all the time).I know that you work very hard to make the models,the problem is that few people know 0 AD,so few people modding

Remenber,these are only ideas,everthing can change,ok?

EDIT:We can start with few nations and latter add more

And what nations you think that are the most important to start?What of my sugested civs you didnt like?what civs you sugest?

EDIT2:For make your work more easy,cant you just edit already made blender models?

And isnt there any other graphic software?because i dowloaded blender AGAIN and it continues how i configured

Edited November 11, 2006 by Abadu

Belisarivs · November 11, 2006

I understand your point,its very hard to create models,i know,please,forgive me for be unable to work with graphics

There's no need to apologize. Actually, I'd be happy to have more enthsiasts like you in team.

And BTW, I can handle modelling well. It is 2D graphics (GIMP, Photoshop ...) which is rather easy, but time consuming. So, if you can do it, or anybody else ...

But hey,im just pointing ideas,i mean,its best to have everthing planned early,dont you think?

I agree, but unfortunatelly, there is none to work on it. And also keep in mind, that your posts will be lost due to other posts which will come after them.

But talking about indians:You said that the aztecs where conquered by few spanish soldier,but you forget about the thousands of tlaxcalan allies,the bad king,the legend of quetzalcoat and the diseases(strong point);

Yes but Cortez also faced great number of Aztecs in several battles and caused them heavy losses. Lack of cannons and other gonpowder, iron and cavalry as well as usefull navy is terrible disadvantage.

You said that they coudnt last for many time,but the mapuches fought for 300 years against the spanish.

But they didn't face them in open battle. It was rathe gurrilla warfare IMHO.

You also said that they had only stone weapons,but the incas had cooper and the tlaxcalans where starting to produce metals(i forgot the english word) when the conquistadors arrive.

Really? I didn't know that. But I believe, that it still alcked much in quality and quantity compared to Spanish curasses and swords.

Some indians had cavalry(sioux,mapuche,iroquois) and a lot had gunpowder(mapuche,sioux,hawaiians,iroquois,huron,tupi,almost even tribe that resisted for a short time had at least some people with muskets and european weapons that where traded with the europeans)

That is true. But they still didn't have much of them.

We dont need to make them ful nations,we can make them as AoE,which you build a trading post in a settlement and can train 1-2 units and research 3 techs,but we need to make it better,lets say,with a AI(They could forge alliances,more techs,more units...).Just few natives would work as full nations(The incas and aztecs,but the people forget the incas all the time).

Yes. That is what I had in mind. Actually, it would be trully cool to to depict conquest of Aztec empire. But it would mean to choose one of those three paths.

I know that you work very hard to make the models,the problem is that few people know 0 AD,so few people modding

Actually, I don't work on it much. I had some problems with PC and my University draws my attention. I hope I will be able to do some work in xmas.

Remenber,these are only ideas,everthing can change,ok?

I know. But simply, I didn't like an idea of indians slaughtered by europeans. But more I think about it, more I start to like it. I'd love to depict Tenochtitlan or Macchu Piccu.

EDIT:We can start with few nations and latter add more

I'd suggest that. Start with small steps and then continue higher to finish.

And what nations you think that are the most important to start?What of my sugested civs you didnt like?what civs you sugest?

I'd start with:

Spanish and British. Actually, I'd like to draw attention of visitors by creation of some really nice model (Husaria?, I'm speaking about them too much, perhaps).

I can't say, that I don't like any of your civ. Actually, these are good ones. But simply there will be lot of work to be done anyway.

EDIT2:For make your work more easy,cant you just edit already made blender models?
And isnt there any other graphic software?because i dowloaded blender AGAIN and it continues how i configured

I'll have a look at your problem.

Actually, there is other software, but it is't for free. And Blender is truly pearl and for free. That is immensely great. I'm thanking god that such project exists.

Do you know, that company, which created Blender originally wasn't quite successfull and decided to cease its development but community gathered 100 000 Euro, bought source code and Blender is still under heavy development and it wa simproved greatly. If I can give you advice, don't throw it away.

Try to find in your registry keys and folders with word "Blender" and delete them.

In fact. I can handle 3D modelling well. It is 2d graphic-artist I'm desperatelly looking for. Just someone make textures in GIMP or Photoshop (or something else).

Hm? What's wrong?

Edited November 11, 2006 by Belisarivs

Abadu · November 11, 2006

I think that if we make a good unit,more people would join and try to learn blender,becuase they would see that we are making something.I sugest a exotic unit,such as a aztec warrior,for example

But some good news:In few days,i will go to my grandpa's house,there i never dowloaded lbwender,and i wil install it and READ the wiki tutorial before make anything.I will try to learn

FirePowa8 · November 12, 2006

Beli, you will see an example of balance between Indians and Europeans in AOE3: WarChiefs. There are some fantasy elements, but it's MUCH more accurate than the Aztecs and Mayas in AOC, and they seem pretty balanced. Furthermore, they make for more interesting and unique gameplay.

For our first unit, I think we should make an Inca unit, since they are overlooked in many other games.

Abadu · November 12, 2006

Yes,but we should start with few nations FirePowa8,because Belisarivs is only 1

The inca would be good,but i guess the atec unit would call more people;This first unit is suposed to call more people to the team,and since the atecs are more knowed and more exotic,i guess they would work(But i whant to see incas too,becuase everyone forget them)

Belisarivs · November 13, 2006

I got an idea. What if I made some model, exported texture and let people at forum to try to create texture. I'd also prepare some short guide how to change texture so people could just use some painting tool and then try to put it to model (which will just mean editing texture, saving under same name and in same position and reloading of texture in blender) and render preview (camera and linghts would be preset).

Would anybody be interested? Only Blender and some painting tool would be required. And some skill, too. What do you think?

Do you have any idea where to upload those premade things? I can't download from rapidshare as I reached free limit. Any other suggestions?

Abadu · November 13, 2006

That would be better if you can get a tutorial for the peole,but i guess that the interest on the mod will rise when a unit appears

And in 4 days i will be in grandpa's house,so i can try to run blender

FirePowa8 · November 17, 2006

the atecs are more knowed

In South America, you'll see otherwise. Even in Spain the Incas are better known and respected than the Aztecs, even though they were both conquered by the Spanish.

I'm not very good with Blender, I'm not patient enough. :shrug: I can do concept art and maybe textures, though.

Abadu · November 20, 2006

This,at least in Brazil, should be true in the states near other S.American countrys,but here in my state(in northeast),the people know a bit more about the aztecs,but we brazilians know more about "our" tribes(Tupinamba,xavante,xoco,cariri,kayapo,pataxo...)

**Justinian** · November 22, 2006

This (like for honour and glory) seems to have progressed far. It's a good idea, IF it does sound a bit too much like AoE3.

Also (again just like in like for honour and glory) I would like to help but don't know how. :shrug:

**Aeros** · August 22, 2007

Just wondering, what is the status of this mod currently? If there is still activity or a lead in question, let me know - I would like to contact the head of this mod.

**c0d3::M0nk3y** · August 25, 2007

hey mate... i just want to say, i find this (and the Mideval mod) BOTH a VERY very good idea... i think they will make playing the game THREE unique experiences...

Hope you keep up the good work and impress us all

Good luck

Mod Announcment - Colonial A.D. : Conquer the World...again

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