SMST

Cerberus is greek ...

Maybe reaching the Global Age and researching all technologies may activate a victory timer, similiar to wonders in AoK. (then again, I have to phase out the wonder victory I already devised, see Egyptian faction)

Good idea, but wouldn't that make the late game somewhat defensive? Though this would be historically accurate, the point of RTS games is to move on the enemy's territory and finish him up eventually. Not to be said that could be changed, of course. Maybe there could be the option of a cultural or economic victory as opposed to the "destroy everything"-gamestyle that governs AoE, for example.

You had more points than just the aviablility of cavalry units. I was wondering especially about your ideas about tribute and the fact that you obviously want to restrict player expansion in later ages.

I envision it more like Proto-Cataphract (Iron) -> Catapract (Classical) -> Knight (Medieval) -> Paladin (Renaissance). Thus it will be possible to give the Persians and Scythians/Sarmatians superior heavy cavalry. (as opposed to Egyptian or British chariots)

Okay, you have a point there. Just don't make dragon boats or something.

Isn't the "Shift+click"-function already included?

I think we all favour Cerberus for now.^^

Thanks for the answers. So, by now, the mod needs a distinguishable name, rather than Pyrogenesis: Empire, which already caused confusion. I would like to hear your ideas for a name fitting for a game which encompasses the whole of Western history. Personally, I came up with some Greek names like "Panarchos" ("overlord") or "Arché" (means both "beginning" and "rule"), but they are not really satisfying. I suck at finding titles, so I would like you to make a guess. ---------- Well, I won't call it disadvantage. Every civ is fairly strong in their respective areas throughout all ages. (French always have strong defenses and heavy cav. Germans always have strong infantry. Russians always have strong light and ranged cavalry. Britons always have good archers and a relatively good navy, which gets better from Colonial Age onwards. No need to talk about the other factions) They may be at a disadvantage if attacked by typical early game civs, such as Persia or Rome, but it means by no ways they could not defeat them, even not that it would be too hard to do so. Still, you've hit a point. I imagine a typical game would last longer than a AoE game. (which can be pretty quick, if I compare them to games like Empire Earth) This works fine at least for singleplayer, where you can save and play again later. For multiplayer, there would have to be a kind of "Age Race" game type, where the complexity and duration of aging up is reduced. (perhaps disabling the need for researching innovations to age up) Either that, or players are able to pick starting and ending ages, just as in AoE. Of course, this game is deliberately designed to be rather slow in comparison to AoE and perhaps 0 A.D. Since the Stone Age here is actually the Neolithic age, I had farming and trade in there. It would still need to be developed, I believe, but the technology for both would be readily aviable from the beginning. Basic units for the Stone Age that I thought about: - Spearman - Slinger - Bowman All primitive and rather generic. (as is all of this age, since visual cultural differences will only play out from the Bronze Age onwards) All of these unit classes are not the greatest of offensive units, though, so I believe rush players will be going to hate me ... I actually threw Stone out of the ressource line (along with Uranium), but if people don't think that 7 or 8 ressources wouldn't cause too much complexity, I'll add it in again. Otherwise, your ideas regarding buildings concur with mine. Cavalry is going to be introduced along with swords/ace/maceman units. (I call them "Shock Infantry") Both will have better offensive capabilities than any Stone Age unit. I imagine the Bronze Age to be the age where first clashes between players are going to happen. Some civilisations will get chariots (Egyptians, Hittites (Turkey), Britons and perhaps the Gauls (French), too), but others are using heavy cavalry by now. (Persia and Russia) Carthage (Phoenicia) gets its elephants and Germany, Rome and Greece just have to wait for heavy cav until the Classical Age - though they get additional infantry upgrades as compensation. Your concept of tribute? I actually have a taxation system which adds a amount of the gold/wealth/coin ressource to your stockpile for every active civic centre. It might be introduced around this time. The University. It would make more sense to have it here, after all. But the name of the Classical Age, after all, is just a name, since the only "classical" civ, the Greeks, have their historical classical age (Persian Wars to Peloponesian Wars) in the Iron Age. So it would perhaps be more fitting there. Religious and political systems are another thing that I had planned, but threw out for simplicity's sake. Since some factions already have heavy cavalry throughout the Iron and Classical age, they continue to have them here. However, I think the last chariot users are going to have their chariots upgraded to cavalry at least by now. Some factions get crossbows (French, German, Italy, Spain), some retain the eastern recurved bows (Persia, Russia, Egypt, Turkey, (Byzantine) Greek) and the British get their longbows. Your ideas about castles sound interesting, how exactly would you integrate portcullis and sally ports into gameplay? No arguments here. All of your ideas are good. One must see how self-defending trade ships turn out in gameplay, though. (e.g. players creating fleets of trade ships for military operations, since they are likely to be cheaper than regular warships) You mean there should be a limit for expanison in the late game? About ironclads and baloons. There was a "Industrial Age" following the Enlightenment age which had all those. For the Enlightenment Age, I was going more for a Napoleonic look, and ironclads were, to the best of my knowledge, not underway at this point. I think there could a "transition ages" addon be made, which would bring the Industrial and the Dark Age (between Classical and Medieval) into the game. These were the ages that were the most pain to throw out, I admit. One anti-infantry infantry line (ex-Archers and Marksmen) are equipped with full-automatic weapons from this age onwards. I don't know if I want to implement chemical warfare, though. Despite making what is essentially a war game, I have moralic issues if it comes to the gas warfare present in WWI. Yeah, I know I am hypocritical here. For the reasons stated above, I would prefer "Imperial Age" for this one. Exactly. (Should cavalry still be around in WWI/Imperial, though? Interesting ideas about spy units. But I think they should be aviable earlier - then again, they would be a major twist for the later ages. Drones = unmanned aircraft? Just to get that clear. "Satellite Reconissance" was actually a technology, which would lift the FOW over your territorries and Shrouds of Darkness over the entire map. Once again, should there be limits to the player's expansion in the later ages? Please explain your concept further. ---- You have some great stuff posted here, most of which I totally agree. Many thanks for this creative addition to the mod. Believe me, it was in at some time. Along with two ages who are now combined under the middle ages, a exclusive Late Antiquity/Dark Age, a Industrial age and four future ages. It is just to reduce the scale. At least a bit ...

Wait. A. Minute. You are not going to sacrifice the historical accurate "coracle" ships for "viking-esque" ships?

From my comment on the web page: Citadel would also be nice.

Forgot about Cyclops. You could also take Cyrus, Caesar, Caros or Carthage and take it as a opportunity to include the related faction.

Cerberus - three-headed dog, would make a great editor unit.^^ Charon - ferryman of the Underworld - well, this is perhaps a bit too dark-mooded, after all Clio - the muse of historiography Clotho - one of the three parces (fate godesses of Romano-Greek mythology) Colossus - I am talking of the one in Rhodos. Take a pick, if you want. I am not really sure what your real guidelines are with naming the releases, but you may as well find one that suits you.

Looks good, I especially like that agama (or whatever this reptile is called) Yeah, I know, it is kind of a mammoth project. I am not planning to do this at once, rather making it step for step. If you want, we can discuss this further in the thread of the mod.

I am confused. Didn't you drop plans about dropping of ressources at buildings, instead having gatherers not returning to civic centres and adding directly to the ressource stockpile while gathering?

Well, does it make sense to have a list like that until the unit stats/appearances are not finalized?

I would suggest removing them, unless the city elder is not trading some food for additional income.

You might consider joining my project, nicknamed Pyrogenesis: Empire. Look here. (last two pages for updated factions and ages) It is basically about making 0 A.D. into a game similar to Empire Earth, stretching from the first settling humans up into our days, but retaining an historical authentic feeling. It is in planning phase still, but I think artistic stuff could already be started. I have to warn you, though, you'll not be a "extra guy", you'll be more of the second one working on this mod and the first one with 3D or programming knowledge. I have only desinging and some very basic 2D skills. If you don't want to be the only 3D-Artist on a mod, then you should probably look for another, though I would be very glad if you did join me. Do you have screenshots of some of your work? Also, are you capable of texturing? I assume there would be more need for that right now than for 3D-modelling.

So Caratacos counts as "eyecandy fiddly bit"? The market looks interesting. Are there still fruit stalls on the old market (now town centre)?

It seems we have overlooked one important major people: the "Sea People" (of whom a part settled and formed the Philistines) I think of them because I came across great art for them: http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/john...cture17891.aspx http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/john...ture307295.aspx For those who don't know, these guys of unknown origin entered the eastern Mediterranean around 1200 B.C., leading to the downfall of the Hittite empire and also giving the Egyptians a hard time beating them off. I don't know much about them yet, but if we want to include them, I can do some research, plus research for the Hittite faction. (which I need anyway)

Okay, it looks fine nontheless.

I just had a look on the new Civic Centre for the Celts. Great work! Was the "round house" style appropriate for "meeting halls" or "thronerooms", though? (which I think are meant to be represented in a Civic Centre) I was under the impression that Celts gathered in long houses. You may prove me wrong, however. (And even if it is not accurate, don't change it!)

I have quite recently done some rework for the ages of the game. Currently, there are 20 ages in total, and looking at it now, as I am into detailled research for the factions, it seems a bit too much. One problem is, of course, the sheer amount of work that would be needed, but the other thing is more gameplay-wise: Many ages are much the same as the pervious ages (as it is now, Bronze Age - Iron Age, Dark Age - Medieval Age, Enlightenment Age - Revolutionary Age etc.) and there shouldbe something new in each age, in my opinion ... So for the sake of feasability and gameplay, I cut the ages down to 12: Stone Age (actually Neolithic Age, as oshron mentioned somewhere before in this thread, is the better starting age for a game that focusses on civilisationary structures and not on nomadic tribes) No Metal ressource yet. Primitive Infantry only, no cavalry. Basic fortifications (think of pallisades in AoK) Bronze Age Metal ressource activated. First light cavalry unit line. Stronger fortifications. From this age onwards, additional civic centres can be built. Iron Age Heavy cavalry and advanced siege engines activated. Also more naval units. Fortresses and Universities are now aviable. Classical Age Peak of ancient civilisation. Wonders and unique units can now be built. Medieval Age (to be honest, if I designed history, I would have skipped the Medieval Age, for there is nothing really innovational to gameplay which would make this age unique. However, I also can't just skip it.) Renaissance Age First appearance of gunpowder units. Artillery changes siege warfare. (14th-15th century) Colonial Age Mixed Pike-Musket-Infantry. (think 16th-17th century) Expanded naval options. (ships lose the ability to ram each other, but are now standardized equipped with artillery, whereas before, units needed to be garrisoned) Enlightenment Age Full gunpowder infantry line. (18th - early 19th century) Nationalism rises your territorial bonusses. Industrial Age Oil (Energy) ressource is now aviable. Armoured units (primitive tanks, battleships) change warfare drastically. (no boarding of ships anymore, for example) First primitive aircraft. Atomic Age (lacking a better name, this is WWII. Another idea was "Modern Age", but this is even more stupid) Rapid evolvement of aircraft and tanks. First nuclear units (nuclear bombers) Information Age (second half of 20th century) Nuclear units become more advanced, nuclear missile bases and nuclear subs are now aviable. Further advancement of land, air and sea units. Global Age (21th century, up to 2050) The ultimate age and the ultimate army. Just upgrades of earlier units, yet significant ones. Fancy stuff like laser troopers, anti-gravity tanks or fighting cyborgs will NOT be included. (might be an expansion, though, who knows) --- What do you think? Oh, and I would very much like some comments about the factions as well.

I have to say, the current civic centre for the Celts is too small compared to the new buildings, or is this also subject to change?

Calm, calm, oshron If we take a historical scenario as basics for the learning campaign, stretch it a bit to meet the demands of this kind of campaign ... does that sound so bad for you? Besides, it is really not hard to find a historical scenario for a learning campaign. Any "Rise of a colony" or "Rise of a great leader" stuff would do, and there is many. I don't see why you are so upset.