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Genava55
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Posts posted by Genava55
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1 minute ago, Sundiata said:
That was my point. Who better to use as scouts than people who are already accustomed to it. Your average farm boy probably won't cut it either. While those that were accustomed to hunting would be far more adept at the task.
Sadly, historical sources clearly suggest the prodromoi were from the lowest-class of citizens, the Thetes are also described as a work force in the fields/farms. This is an example but it clearly demonstrates it is not that much simple.
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As a slightly related topic; Spies in Ancient Greece, 15 pages. This is not a topic I know well but it is maybe worth exploring.
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32 minutes ago, Sundiata said:
I can't imagine a better scout than a hunter... Hunters need to scout all the time. It's their speciality. Scouts need to able to live off the land more effectively as well, as they can spend many days away from any supply line. Perhaps not a job you'd entrust to an urban recruit.
Have you heard of shepherds? They are more numerous and as much able to scout as hunters. They must endure the weather and have the habit to defend their animals. Furthermore, there is a huge difference in getting your own food in the wild and providing food for your community. Finally, you fell in a false dichotomy with your urban example. Even an urban society like the Roman mainly employed men from the countryside for the military service.
For a historical view, it seems that for the Greeks and the Hellenes, any cavalry could be employed as scouts, but it was mostly the prodromoi in the majority of the accounts.
QuoteAlready in fifth century Athens there existed a unit of horse archers who had the privilege of charging the enemy first. They were replaced in the 390s by cavalry known as prodromoi, which was not a change in name only since the prodromoi were armed with the javelin, as were the regular Athenian cavalry (hippeis). Yet whereas the hippeis had some social standing, the prodromoi seem to have been recruited from the Thetes, the lowest socio-economic census class. Unfortunately, the absence of literary evidence on these cavalry units prevents a clear understanding of their tactical employment. Nevertheless, it is reasonable to suggest that the term prodromoi could be used for a generic type of cavalry whose function was consonant with its etymology—running or going in advance. This might apply to scouting as well as to leading the attack on the right wing, and—given the tactical importance of this latter role in the major battles of Alexander—it should at least be included, if not emphasized, in a definition of its meaning.
Source: Cavalry Operations in the Ancient Greek World, by Gaebel.
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3 minutes ago, borg- said:
To differentiate scouts, not just higher vision, how about being able to build outpost, It's possible? @Stan`
If it is not possible, due to animation problems, the scout can be an infantry.
Isn't the animation available because of the nomads in Delenda Est?
Personally, I am in favor of this. I prefer scouting being a different approach, like building outpost, but maybe more in the future (trap, capturing enemy unit and converting it for spying, etc.). And keeping hunting for the other units.
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I don't see why scouting should be related to hunting. It seems to be two contradictory activities.
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I don't know how it could be useful but ok
Anyway a mounted hunter is generally a noble or an aristocrat without his full weaponry. It is not really hard.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2695926130622535&id=1387046651510496
Edit: it could have this kind of hat
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1 minute ago, Mosé said:
This graphic seems very ilustrative; but, where are the Astures ? they are one of the most important archaelogical cultures in the north of the peninsula:
Strabo put the Astures in the same group with the Galicians and the Cantabrians, saying they have the same custom. Probably they are an intermediate step between both, an ancient Indo-European culture being Celtized by Celtiberian culture as well.
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53 minutes ago, wraitii said:
3- It is estimated that each Athenian citizen had a slave.
Mmmh... since the small number of Spartan citizens in regard of the population of Lacedemonia/Laconia, I think they were more intense in the slavery
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Furthermore, some civs like the Mauryas and the Han (if they are added) have relied much less on slavery. Serfdom was more important.
Indeed, an interesting topic. It could have a rising price on the market in relation with their numbers in game and any assault on the opposite player could result in a lower price for the current player.
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15 hours ago, wraitii said:
We probably should reset it a few weeks before release then, good point.
Yeah I think it is a bit too early for a poll. It will depend on the content of the changelogs. It is nice to have a list of the proposals although.
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2 hours ago, Stan` said:
Now that D11 is in we could have a Britonnic campaign. Not sure how to collaboratively work on this though...
The conquest of Britannia by the Romans is probably out of frame (excepted if you include the Roman Empire lol).
Although there is an account from Caesar that the Suessiones had power over a large area including a part of Britannia during the reign of their king Diuiciacos (Diviciacus), 1st century BC. There is also the short campaign of Caesar in the British Isles (but the problem is the actual Romans are depicting Punic Wars, although it could be easily corrected for a campaign).
Else, there is the journey of Pytheas of Massalia. It could be a really beautiful way to introduce the game to new players through a tutorial.
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2 hours ago, Nescio said:
It would be great to see the Britons reworked! Is a Brittonic (or Gaulish) name known, though? Welsh did not yet exist in 0 A.D.'s timeframe and Welsh is no longer used in game either, so why should we adopt a (modern) Welsh name for the next alpha?
Because there was multiple alpha with modern languages, like "Ides of March" instead of Idus Martiae, Osiris instead of ꜣsjr, Argonauts instead of Αργοναῦται. I don't think double standards should be a rule suddenly.
Furthermore, technically the ancient Britons DON'T have any writing system, so you are asking an impossible task since the alpha relies on an alphabetical character.
But on the matter of the word Ynys itself, yes I believe it was mostly pronounced the same way by ancient Britons since the pronunciation is mostly the same in Old Celtic languages and that the reconstructed proto-Celtic is something like this in IPA /ɨˈnˑɨs/ while in modern Welsh it is /ˈənɨ̞s/. So if we consider that the pronunciation is mostly the same, I see no issues.
Edit: Finally, Ynys Môn is an interesting historical reference
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18 minutes ago, Stan` said:
Whoops
Glad to see the song is indeed related.
Yes, Ynys is basically meaning island in modern Welsh. Inis is from old Welsh and old Irish. The name Mona is given by Roman accounts.
I am glad you like the song, this is an excellent band.
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Quote
Ynys Môn a giant of Welsh mythology.
QuoteYsbaddaden an island called Anglesey in English,
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Ysbaddaden, a giant of Welsh mythology.
Yr Wyddfa, a famous mountain in Wales.
Ynys Môn, an island called Anglesey in English, a place where there was a sanctuary and famous for the massacre perpetrated by the Romans on this island.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_conquest_of_Anglesey
In case the Britons got their re-work.
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Channel dedicated to the study of Ancient History, with particular interest in the martial field, through a multidisciplinary approach in which the study of sources and the analysis of finds are combined with experimental archeology.
All the videos are in Italian but numerous videos include some English subtitles. Gioal Canestrelli is a serious guy with some academic background and a reenactor:
https://www.ibs.it/libri/autori/gioal-canestrelli
https://independent.academia.edu/GioalCanestrelli
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7 minutes ago, Grapjas said:
I understand why priests are ingame, just saying the way it works is fantasy (and probably just a copied mechanic from AOE). The vast majority of those 'miracles' happened outside of combat if you even want to refer to such things. In regards to them being in armies, i suggested they buff the army rather than heal it because of their presence.
Anyway, temples cannot be build in neutral territories, the tents i was suggesting can. I won't deny that priests were actually assisting to take care of wounded/sick people, outside of combat.
But if we talk about warfare, you had 2 options: A:(tactical) Retreat to live and fight another day B: Fight till death
and not C: have some people waving hands and magically heal up soldiers while combat is going on. Come to think about it, it would be a decent solution if priests/healers/surgeons/druids could only heal people that are not actively fighting, but im not sure how hard/easy that is to implement.To discuss further this priest issue I consider important as well, the copy from AoE2 is really an issue, I agree on this matter. Maybe the game should include a whole system related to priests and religion. Maybe a system of rituals enabled in a temple to give a specific bonus or anything else. But really, the priest and religion are wasted aspects.
Edit: if I recall, Ancestors legacy had some tech bonus related to religion, it was really basic although.
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The original Iberians in 0ad seems to have been designed on purpose from both the Celtiberians and the Iberians. Maybe a unique gameplay mech should be to branch two civs with the Iberians and letting the player choose during the game at some point. This is not totally historical but if it is clear and transparent I don't see the issue.
Besides this, I agree with @av93 remarks.
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35 minutes ago, Sundiata said:
I'm really still not seeing it.
I suspect the El Argar origin but I am not sure. I don't think anyone can retrieve the original justifications for this. Anyway, if it's this, this is really a double-standard and inconsistent.
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12 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
I believe the Iberians were to be the quintessential defensive civ. Hiding behind their walled settlements sending out raiding parties and wearing down their opponents that way. Along with ambushing/guerrilla warfare, the Iberians would be rather unique in this way.
The problem is that those justifications are probably incorrect from a historical point of view.
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10 minutes ago, Sundiata said:
Ok, but I still don't understand the rational behind it?
Probably a reference to the Bronze Age culture "El Argar", suspected to be the ancestor of the Iron Age Iberian culture.
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11 hours ago, Grapjas said:
But this probably won't get any traction because many comp players use this mechanic. Just put 10+ priests inside box formation on flee formation and watch the literal magic happen (also very much a form of dancing btw).
At least it doesn't convert an enemy by shooting wololo at his face.
11 hours ago, Grapjas said:Out of combat healing (AKA resting) i can get behind. I think this could be way more creative. Like, make players be able to build a relatively weak camp of tents they can build inside neutral territory where units can "rest" / heal up but has 0 defense on its own in addition to temple and barracks / CC healing that's already present.
I like the idea but to work it should be built really fast and I see how it could be abused by some players. By spamming it to block some units
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Iberians, Celtiberians, Lusitans, --reference---
in Tutorials, references and art help
Posted · Edited by Genava55
The topic is nearly the same with early Gallo-Roman monuments where we can find masked helmets alongside Gallic stuff (but also Roman stuff):
Although it is really difficult at that time to assess if the representation are natives or Romans.
Actually this uprising brow is something you would observe on Italic and Hellenistic helmets.