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Genava55
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Posts posted by Genava55
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5 hours ago, Alar1k said:
Overall I see kennel as a potential differentiation of Britons from Gauls
I am not against the kennel, I said it in my first message in this thread. Further, people asked me my opinion about the kennel and I simply said what I think about the design.
The recruitment of the dogs can be done through a dedicated building (a kennel), through the houses or through the stables.
From an archaeological point of view, most buildings were what we call "roundhouses", with only a few different features although they still had dedicated functions/purposes. But obviously, we cannot have every building in the game depicted as roundhouses. So it is acceptable to drift from historical accuracy. However, it is important to make it credible and senseful/meaningful.
I think the Britons can be unique by being a civ focusing on skirmishing and mobility (basically guerrilla tactics). War chariots are a relatively unique feature they got access to in the second phase. I also suggested to highlight the bodypainting/tattooing tradition of the Britons but it would require new talents. If the two-handed swordsmen got removed due to their historical inaccuracy (it was really a fantasy unit), there is still an unique feature of British Iron Age that isn't depicted in the game, some warriors seem to have carried their sword on the back. This is still a simple one-handed sword but at least it is visually distinct. Finally the war dogs are indeed an interesting feature but it seems important to balance it correctly.
In my opinion, a war dog should be an unit delivering a lot of damage, moving quickly but being particularly fragile. This is the current direction in the game. I also think they would have been probably efficient against light infantry and cavalry. However the question of how they should be recruited is important because it seems to be the point debated. Personally I think the war dogs should be efficient as a defensive tool in the village phase (quick recruitment and movement) and should become more useful as an offensive tool during the town phase. One way to deal with it is to enable their recruitment from the houses directly at the first phase and enabling the research of some technologies during the town phase from the stables, to improve the war dogs and make them meaningful offensively. Such technologies could be simply converting the dogs from "hunting dogs" to "war dogs" as both were attested by historical accounts.
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5 hours ago, Stan` said:
Mmmh could be a stable upgrade ?
It could work yes.
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On 12/03/2022 at 2:41 PM, Stan` said:
Should we use something like what's proposed there http://battlebrothersgame.com/dev-blog-67-progress-update-specialized-shops/
A building with cages or something.
That's a way to interpret dog breeding. However, were dogs kept and bred in cages in the past? Not really, at least not the hunting dogs. You won't have good behaving dogs by mistreating them. During medieval times, hunting dogs were treated a bit like horses. They had people to take care of them, they had a place where to live and stay warm, a field where to exercise etc. The book "Livre de Chasse" by Gaston Phoebus gives plenty of descriptions and of depictions of the hunting dogs and their condition.
Spoiler
SpoilerThese animals, with the working greyhounds, were excellently cared for. Wealthy owners set up astonishingly high standards of kennel management, described in careful detail in Gaston de Foix’s ‘Traité de la Chasse’. The kennel where the hounds sleep, he says, should be built of wood a foot clear of the ground, with a loft for greater coolness in summer and warmth in winter, and it should also have a chimney to warm the occupants when they are cold or wet.
It should be enclosed in a sunny yard, and the door should be left open so that ‘the houndes may go withoute to play when them liketh for it is grete likyng for the houndes whan thei may goon in and out at their lust’ – as every dog lover knows. Hounds should be taken for a walk once or twice a day and allowed to run and play ‘in a fair medow in the sun’, and must be taken to a spot where they may eat grass to heal themselves if they are sick.
The kennel is to be cleaned every morning and the floor thickly strewn with straw, renewed daily. The hounds are to be given fresh water twice a day and rubbed down with straw each morning. The staple food is bran bread, with meat from the chase, and game to be killed specially for them even out of the regular hunting season. Sick hounds may be given more fancy diets, such as goat’s milk, bean broth, chopped meat, or buttered eggs.
Most of the kennel chores were performed by a dog-boy, an embryo huntsman who was expected to start learning his trade at the age of about seven and who, in addition to his other duties, had to learn the names and colours of the hounds and how to spin horsehair for their couplings. Besides this, he or some other child must be constantly in the kennel to prevent fights, even at night. In addition, it is laid down, in the uncompromising fashion of the age, that he should love his master and the hounds, and, furthermore, that he should be beaten if he fails to do as he is told.
https://www.historytoday.com/miscellanies/world-medieval-dogdom
And ancient war dogs were probably treated similarly.
On 12/03/2022 at 2:41 PM, Stan` said:Or do you have a suggestion for an interesting building that could increase briton diversity
A large building like the stables or the barracks could work.
You add a fence around the building. You can add a few cages with wild animals inside, suggesting they were used to train them.
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4 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:
I assumed that we had good art for the kennel, but @Carltonus encouraged me to check it out. We have an older post on the forum that also shows the limitiations of the kennel
Indeed the kennel is badly designed. The problem is that people doesn't want to check what was a kennel in the past and prefer thinking on their own (and after they are surprised it was wrong). Preconceived ideas and an excessive amount of modern representations through cartoons and movies are making people to believe a kennel is a tiny single house for a dog. Anyone can check what was a medieval kennel and how it looked, it would be already a good start to realize that the idea of a tiny kennel is bad. So yeah, the current kennel is a lazy model with the least amount of critical thinking and realism.
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I think there are using both (spear, sword), even javelins, from a historical point of view. Something to consider is that it is motivated by gameplay, swords are much better in the game than spears.
And xiphos and machaira/kopis aren't that short. There are long ones:
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https://www.facebook.com/ginkgostory
(by the way the pictures below come from facebook, so expect the urls to die at some point)
ZHANG JUE (张角)Zhang Jue was the leader of the Yellow Turban Rebellion during the late Han dynasty of China. He was said to be a follower of Taoism and a sorcerer. Giving himself the title of "Great Teacher", Zhang Jue led the Yellow Turban Rebellion in a campaign called the "Way of Heaven", to rebelled against the Han dynasty in response to burdensome taxes, rampant corruption, and famine. After the rebellion's defeat, most of them eventually joining the army of the warlord Cao Cao.东汉末年农民起义军“黄巾军”的领袖。张角修太平道，利用其中的某些宗教观念和社会政治思想，组织群众，约于灵帝建宁（168年-172年）初传道。中平元年（184年），张角以“苍天已死，黄天当立，岁在甲子，天下大吉”为口号，自称“天公将军”，率领群众发动起义，史称“黄巾起义”。不久张角病死，起义军也很快被汉朝所镇压。
ZHUGE LIANG (諸葛亮)Zhuge Liang (181–234 A.D) was a politician, military strategist, writer, engineer and inventor. He served as the chancellor and regent of the state of Shu Han during the Three Kingdoms period. He is recognized as the most accomplished strategist of his era.诸葛亮 (181年－234年10月8日)，三国蜀汉丞相，是中国历史上著名的政治家、军事家、发明家、及散文家。刘备三顾始见之，为备画据荆益、联孙权、拒曹操之策，佐备取荆州，定益州，遂与魏、吴成鼎足之势。曹丕代汉，备称帝于成都，以亮为丞相。备死，亮辅后主刘禅，以丞相封武乡侯，兼领益州牧。整官制，修法度，志复中原。屡次北伐，与魏相攻战。建兴十二年卒于五丈原军中，年五十四，谥为忠武侯
THREE KINGDOMS - MARCH OF THE SHU ARMYThis drawing depicting the fifth march of the Shu army (蜀汉) across Qin Ling mountain range to attack Wei(魏), during the late Three Kingdoms period (234 A.D). I am always fascinated by the realistic and humble narration style of the classic 'Records of the Three Kingdoms'(三国志), and inspired to create this drawing. I hope you enjoy it, thanks!画作.三国蜀军五出祁山之想象图今次的画作题材为三国后期蜀汉军队在诸葛亮的指挥下，第五次进攻关中时穿越秦岭斜谷的情景。我一向都比较喜欢古典三国志里相对写实朴素的述事风格，籍同样的方向来制作这次的画作。希望能够以一种平静的心情来三国。谢谢~
画作.秦国步兵写家书之想象图今次的作画题材为一队正在写家书的秦国步兵。他们是战国晚期来自同一个村庄的壮丁, 一起被调到遥远的前线作战。为首的伍长是唯一识字的人, 其他队员就委托他为他们的家人写信。这幅画作的灵感来自于云梦睡虎地出土的秦简家书。当然主角并不是其中的黑夫和惊, 而是其他数以万计消失在历史中, 想念家人的秦兵。在我的Youtube视频上观看此画作的幕后制作过程：https://youtu.be/aTJSM336h3YTerracotta Warriors (Qin Infantry) Writing Family LettersThis drawing depict a group of Qin dynasty infantry writing letters to their families at the frontline. The backdrop is set to be the battle against Chu rebellion around the year 223 B.C. The inspiration is coming from a Qin dynasty family letter (Shui Hu Di Qin Jian) discovered in 1975.To see behind the scene and workflow video of this drawing, please visit my Youtube channel:
东汉武士格斗之想象图公元25年, 刘秀在河北称帝, 建立东汉政权, 开始对新朝末年在中原各地建立的自立政权发动统一战争。在长达12年席卷全中原的战争期间, 又有哪些可歌可泣的故事呢? 图为陇西之战时, 刘秀与隗纯的部队正在激战。今次想探索一下东汉时期的一些兵器。左边留大胡子的大叔手执手戟与盾牌, 右边的大兄则以环首刀与钩镶对应。Close combat scene of Eastern Han's warriorsLiu Xiu (Emperor Guang Wu) started his campaign to re-uniting China again after established Eastern Han dynasty in 25 A.D. Liu Xiu's troop spent 12 years to conquer other warloard across China. This illustration depicting a close combat scene between Liu Xiu and Kui Chun's troop. The warrior on the left equipped with a Shou Ji (手戟: short halberd) and a wooden shield, his opponent is countering with Huan Shou Dao (环首刀: rounded head blade) and a Gou Rang (钩镶: a type of buckler with hooks)
Xia Hou Dun ( 夏侯惇 )Chief military commander of the Wei army. The most trusted general of Cao cao. He lost his left eye to a strafe arrow during the battle against Lü Bu. Since then, he has obtained the alias "Blind Xia Hou". He is holding a golden axe, a symbol of higest military authority.
Xian Zhen Ying 陷阵营 (Formation Destroyer Unit)Lü Bu's strongest heavy infantry unit, their commander is the legendary general Gao Shun (高顺). This unit is well equipped and very discipline, they are feared by many other warlord at that time, including Liu Bei and Cao Cao. The number of soldier is always around 700 people, but their combat ability is equivalent to a thousand strong. The warrior in this picture equipped a unique buckler call Gou Rang (钩镶). It has two hooks on the top and bottom, to parry halberd.
Wu Dang Fei Jun 無當飛軍 (Unstoppable Flying Army)Under Zhuge Lliang's order, a special unit recruited from the minority tribe of the southern china. This troop consist the minority tribe of Southern Tribe (南中夷族) and Blue Qiang Tribe (青羌族), specialized in mountain warfare. They are mostly using bow and poison arrow in the battle. In the battle of Zhong Men Dao, they ambush and kill Wei kingdom famous general Zhang He (张郃).無當飛軍诸葛亮在南中平定战后徵召的少数民族战士，善长山地作战。在第四次北伐时，于木门道伏击并射杀魏国大将张郃。
Tai Shi Xi (太史慈)A very brave general of Sun Wu kingdom. In a reconnaissance mission, Tai Shi Xi encountered and challege Sun Ce (孙策) alone, his courage had impressed Sun Ce. He eventually being invited by Sun Ce to join his camp and became one of the most important general of Sun Wu. He is most famous for his outstanding archery skill.太史慈孙吴大将。 猿臂善射，弦不虚发
Xian Deng Si Shi 先登死士 (Spearhead Suicide Squad)Yuan Shao's special crossbowman unit, equipped with big shield and powerful crossbow. In the battle of Jie Qiao, Yuan Shao sent in 800 infantry and thousands of crossbowman as a suicide squad against Gong Sunzhan's light cavalry. They hide behind the big shield and wait until the enemy get close, and destroyed their enemy by firing their crossbow at once.先登死士袁袑的敢死队，装备大盾与强弩。在界桥之战全灭公孙瓒的轻骑兵部队。-
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3 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:
It could be said that it is Sassanid Armor. But isn't enough different from Parthians.
The earliest evidence is from Pergamon, there is a relief with this kind of manica:
It depicts spoil of war taken from the Seleucid.
There is also a small figurine from Hellenistic art:
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11 minutes ago, AIEND said:
I've played Huns on Terra Magna Mod, do you have any new ideas that are different from it?
I think the idea was to portray separately the Xiongnu that faced the Han dynasty and the Huns that faced the Roman empire 2 and 3 centuries later. Since the Huns seem to have been a part of larger confederacy, including Sarmatian and Germanic people.
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38 minutes ago, AIEND said:
I'm not sure if the restoration of this armor is based on history, I mean many people try to imagine Iranian cavalry in terms of sculptures and rough paintings, but in my experience, the folds of the sleeves/trousers fabrics are easily affected by Mistakenly thought it was the texture of the armor.
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As I mentioned a long time ago, the society of the ancient Britons is very pastoral, although with some development of farming and grain storing but not as much as on the continent. Dogs probably lived close to humans. Numerous dog remains has been found in Danebury hillfort, suggesting the dogs lived there and had known various lives and conditions. Some dogs were treated with care, some dogs were weak and fragile, some dogs were tall and tough, some dogs were eaten and some dogs seem to have been neglected. So it seems that dogs were carefully chosen for specific purposes. It is probable that war dogs and hunting dogs were breed for the elites, not for the common-folk that would rely on different kinds of dogs to keep his herd.
In Irish history and myths, big dogs are generally valuated and are mentioned as related to important characters. They lived nearby their home or on their domain.
So a kennel is plausible because those war dogs would have been valuated, even if it is more probable they would have lived in the house or in the barn.
If the dogs are trained in the stable or/and in the corral it is also plausible. The kennel can have some benefits, even to search some dog oriented technologies.
I like the idea of @LetswaveaBookabout the kennel having a quicker recruitment. For the kennel build limit and discount by kennel, I don't know. I would prefer one or two technologies available.
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57 minutes ago, AIEND said:
such as the Gauls Vicentoli, who is the leader of the Alvini tribe , but equivalent to the high king of the whole of Gaul.
If you mean Vercingetorix, leader of the Arverni, he wasn't exactly high king of all the Gauls. He was leading a league of multiple tribes, they gave him the commanding power of the league, but he didn't have a full authority on the different tribes. It was more hegemonic, similar to the Greek leagues (like the Delian league).
1 hour ago, AIEND said:I may not have made it clear, I mean, what tribes were there on this peninsula in ancient times? What are they called and who should we choose to represent the Iberians?
At the origin, it was a decision made by one of the beloved founders: Ken Wood. The Alpha 23 was named after him.
You can see in this interview his interests about the Iberians, Celtiberians and Lusitanians: https://web.archive.org/web/20100104100236/http://wildfiregames.com/0ad/page.php?p=1489
1 hour ago, AIEND said:What nation do we call the Iberians? Some of them appear to be Celts, related to the Gauls.
We know there are some issues in how they are depicted. The archaeology of the Iberian Peninsula is not simple, most of the sources are in Spanish and they weren't accessible until recently. The current Iberian faction mixes features from the Iberians, Turdetani (Tartessos), Celtiberians and Lusitanians. Each of these people spoke a different language.
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Kamandar i Kappodakiya, Anatolian Archers
Arvadnii Kappodakiya, Anatolian Tribesmen
Nezagdar i Kappodakiya, Anatolian Spearmen
Mudunup i Kappodakiya, Anatolian Light Cavalry
Aswar i Kappodakiya, Anatolian Medium Cavalry
Doryphoroi Pontikoi, Pontic Spearmen
Uazali, Karian Warband
Doryphoroi kata Galaton, Doryphoroi kata Galaton
Machairophoroi kata Galaton, Galatianised Swordsmen
Phæzæghashkha,North-Western Caucasian Infantry
Hayots Ayrudzi, Caucasian Lancers
Hai Nizagamartik, Armenian Spearmen
Netadzik Ayrudzi, Armenian Horse-Archers
Tiknazor, Armenian Bodyguard
Dranik Gund,Armenian Royal Guard
Aznvakan Aspet, Armenian Cataphracts
Payadag i Gurgan, Hyrkanian Hillmen
Payadag i Falakhanan, Eastern Slingers
Eranag Payadag, Western Iranian Archer-Spearmen
Kamandar i Pars, Persian Archers
Aryanag Payadag, Eastern Iranian Archer-Spearmen
Payadag iAshtan , Iranian Javelinmen
Eranag Payadag i Taparan, Iranian Axemen
Nezagdar, Iranian Spearmen
Payadag i Kardakan, Persian Heavy Spearmen
Regalin, Akkadian Heavy Infantry
Eranag Aswar i Ashtan, Iranian Javelin Cavalry
Eranag Aswar, Iranian Medium Cavalry
Aswar i Mad, Median Cavalry
Aswar i Khweshawandan, Iranian Heavy Cavalry, Iranian Royal Cavalry
Payadag i Balk, Baktrian Tribesmen
Aswar i Rakhvad, Arachosian Cavalry
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2 hours ago, AIEND said:
Actually one of the things that puzzles me about some mods and game designs including EB2 is that any kind of Persian infantry they make looks like an archer, where the spear always doesn't have a helmet (but may wear a breastplate ), and only a hood, carrying a large shield that is not suitable for hand-to-hand combat. But in reality, the Athenians captured an Assyrian pointed helmet worn by the Persians. Herodotus' book also contains records of Assyrian infantry in the Persian army. Why not make the Persian spearmen into Assyrians What about people like that?
Because what is described in Herodotus doesn't necessarily apply for the 3rd century BC at the time of the Seleucid empire. EB2 is strict about the material of the time period.
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16 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:
it would suggest that the 0A.D community and WFG are supporting 1 political figure, which is not an accurate reflection of what many players think, nor is it beneficial for anyone, especially considering players who are located in countries where the mainstream view is different from yours.
This is why I suggested something more neutral here, trying to find a compromise.
I don't think the point is to pick a side, the point is voicing our opinion against a war that can lead to an escalation.
Just now, AIEND said:I think voting options should be grouped, for example, people want to vote for Han Dynasty related names. The votes for the names related to the Han Dynasty should be collected and counted first, and then we should discuss which one is more popular. Otherwise, the votes will be too scattered. At present, the total number of votes for Han Dynasty-related names adds up to the highest, but this does not seem obvious.
Yeah I agree. The current state of the poll is messy.
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11 minutes ago, AIEND said:
Honestly, I really don't want to talk about politics. People with different positions can argue forever.
Not talking about this is also a position. See the comments:
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6 minutes ago, AIEND said:
In addition, Taiwan is not a sovereign country, please don't compare it with Ukraine, most of the residents on this island are not aborigines but Chinese immigrants.
Lol. Good luck being convincing here with this attitude.
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Just now, AIEND said:
I can tell you that I watched this talk the first day it was released. But for us, this is nonsense, can talking about love and peace out of thin air stop imperialist wars? Has what happened in Syria, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, in Yemen, in Somalia, in Libya stopped?
If you really want to issue a manifesto, please do so for Syria, which has been at war for 11 years, for Palestine, for Yemen, and for Somalia, not for Zelensky.You have entirely misunderstood his point and why I sent you this video. You mentioned the Russian community in Ukraine and their relatives the Ukrainians, I have specifically quoted this part from your message. The speech from the Kenyan ambassador specifically deals with this idea of ethnic unity.
1 hour ago, smiley said:That's all well and good, but there have been numerous massacres, conflicts and human suffering within recent memory even if they don't exactly dominate the news.
What's the criteria for being mentioned in the title?
Rockets literally fly into hospitals and apartments annually on the West Bank. Anyone still remembers Yemen and Syria? Whatever happened in Myanmar? What has Columbia gone through? The list is so long it's @#$%ing depressing.
Suffering does not discount suffering. But acknowledging one while ignoring everything else, is doing the same, especially when more people have died and are dying elsewhere.
I propose maintaining the status quo just like we have done so in the past with wars and conflicts that have had much more casualties.
I think you are underestimating what's going on and you are thinking it is only a matter of skin color. It is not. If it was China invading Taiwan, it would have been the same worldwide reaction.
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22 minutes ago, AIEND said:
Honestly, those of us who live on the eastern end of Eurasia don't care if Zelensky is Jewish or not, because the real people involved in the Ukraine crisis are the Russians, who make up 17% of the country's population, and their relatives and friends - Ukraine people.
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15 hours ago, Genava55 said:
Maybe a word in Ukrainian or a historical reference from Ukrainian history ?
збере́ження (zberéžennja) or preservation/conservation/saving/safeguarding, it can be used in different context.
Otherwise there is Mykola Zerov, a writer and poet. http://www.encyclopediao@#$%raine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages\Z\E\ZerovMykola.htm
Edit: the other alternative is making an official statement instead of naming the alpha.
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6 hours ago, AIEND said:
And you have to know that a lot of people hate a politician who keeps neo-Nazi soldiers under his command and condone their massacre of their own people.
Zelensky is jewish in case you didn't know. He lost family members during the Holocaust. Under his government, Ukraine passed a law punishing antisemitism. The problem of neo-nazi soldiers is limited to the Azov regimen which is complex because it initially involved a private paramilitary structure. Its integration into the military isn't due to Zelensky. Maybe you are not used to this, but a president didn't have all power and authority on its people and Zelensky cannot dissolves a regimen by snapping its fingers.
But honestly this bullshit about neo-nazi is silly, it is a minority even among members of the Azov regimen. I don't think there is more nazi among Ukrainian army than there is among Russian one.
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25 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:
Definitely not 'Zelensky'. No relation to 0AD's time period.
You would prefer Zarubintsy just to be in 0AD's time period?
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4 minutes ago, Lopess said:
And of course, on sacred European soil, every drop of blood weighs far more than anywhere else in the world.
It is. Not because the Europeans worth more than any other human beings but simply because this is the place where superpowers could potentially start a fight that even someone at the other side of the Earth doesn't want to see.
Do not underestimate what's going on.
All Civilizations are my favorite.
in Gameplay Discussion
Posted · Edited by Genava55
Celts wore their swords on the right side, even at the end of iron age when the swords reached very long sizes. This is attested by classical accounts and native depictions.
Edit: also this is correct that the Centurions wore their swords on the left as a distinctive feature. This is corroborated by funerary stelae.