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Genava55
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Posts posted by Genava55
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13 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
The first shield pattern with the lame stripe really bothers me for some reason. There's zero creativity and it's strange.
Yeah it's lame. Although it is easy to see and identify.
5 hours ago, Stan` said:I really wish we had visible upgrades
Is this a feature that is existing but not used, or would we have to implement it in javascript ?
Age of Mythology is in a simpler situation, the game is less realistic. We couldn't have such spectacular changes. But it would still be interesting.
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Thebes and the Boeotian League, from Britannica:
SpoilerBoeotian League, league that first developed as an alliance of sovereign states in Boeotia, a district in east-central Greece, about 550 bc, under the leadership of Thebes. After the defeat of the Greeks at Thermopylae, Thebes and most of Boeotia sided with the Persians during the Persian invasions of 480 and 479. Subsequently, the victorious Greeks dissolved the Boeotian League as punishment. The Boeotians remained weak until 446, when they revolted against Athenian domination and reconstituted the league in alliance with Sparta. The league later opposed Sparta in the Corinthian War (395–387) and was defeated and again dissolved, Sparta having had Persian help.
Before the Corinthian War the league had grown into a close-knit confederacy, organized in 11 districts by 431. Each district, comprising one or more cities, sent a general (boeotarch), several judges, and 60 counselors to a federal government; the federal council of 660 was probably divided into four panels, each in turn convening for one year. The vote was given only to the propertied classes. Thebes, where the council met, dominated the league since it controlled four districts and supplied the best contingent to the federal army.
In 379 Thebes joined Athens in a successful effort to overturn Spartan supremacy in Greece. The league was then reconstituted on an initially successful democratic basis: all Boeotians, whatever their property, were members of an assembly convened at Thebes; their vote decided all matters of policy. The seven-man executive (one from each of the then seven districts, of which Thebes controlled three) was directly responsible to the Assembly. Other districts under federal systems joined Boeotia: Euboea, Acarnania, Phocis, Thessaly, Arcadia, and Achaea. But this great block of military power was soon split by imperialist ambitions, and the Boeotian League itself destroyed Orchomenus (364) and intervened in the Achaean League (366) and Arcadian League (362).
Decline set in rapidly when Phocis hired mercenaries and ravaged Boeotia in the Sacred War (355–346), which Philip II of Macedon ended as an ally of Thebes. Thebes suffered defeat, however, along with Athens, when Philip quelled their efforts to maintain Greek independence in 338 at the Battle of Chaeronea. The Boeotian League was again dissolved, and after an abortive revolt (335) against Alexander the Great of Macedon, Thebes and the rest of Boeotia fell permanently under external domination.
Boeotia and Boeotian Confederacy, free article on the Oxford Classical Dictionary:
SpoilerBoeotia was a region in central Greece, bounded in the north by Phocis and Opuntian Locris. The east faces the Euboean Gulf, and Mts. Parnes and Cithaeron form the southern boundary with Attica. On the west Mt. Helicon and some lower heights separate a narrow coastline from the interior. Lake Copais divided the region into a smaller northern part, the major city of which was Orchomenus (1), and a larger southern part dominated by Thebes (1). Geography and the fertility of the soil encouraged the growth of many prosperous and populous cities and villages. Although now there is indication of palaeolithic and mesolithic habitation, numerous findings prove a dense neolithic population. Thucydides (1. 12) states that the region was originally named Cadmeis, but that the Boiotoi gave it its present name 60 years after the Trojan War. Yet the Catalogue of Ships (Homer, Il. 2) knows of Boeotians already living in Boeotia before the war. Archaeology also proves both continuity of culture before the putative Trojan War and the decline of population during LH III, probably owing to mass migrations to the east. This late Helladic period was none the less prosperous enough to sustain Mycenaean palaces at Thebes, Orchomenus, and Gla.
Boeotia enters history only with Hesiod of Ascra, whose Works and Days indicates an agricultural society of smallholdings. In his time several basileis in Thespiae possessed the judicial power to settle inheritances. Evidence also indicates that other large cities exercised power over their smaller neighbours, Plataea, Tanagra, and Thebes among them. The result was the development of well-defined political units that formed the basis of an early federal government. The union of these cities in a broader political system was aided by their common culture, ethnicity, language, and religion. By the last quarter of the 6th cent. bce some of these cities formed the Boeotian Confederacy, doubtless under the hegemony of Thebes (see federal states). The Boeotians, as a people, not as a confederacy, were early members of the Delphic amphictiony.
From the outset of the Persian Wars until the Pax Romana, Boeotia was the ‘dancing-floor of war’ in Greece. Boeotian reaction to the Persian invasion was mixed. Plataea, Thespiae, and some elements in Thebes originally favoured the Greeks, but after the battle of Thermopylae only Plataea remained loyal to the Greek cause. The Persian defeat entailed the devastation of Boeotia. A truncated confederacy may have survived, but the region was politically unimportant. In 457 bce Boeotia allied itself with Sparta, which resulted in the battles of Tanagra and Oenophyta, the latter a major Boeotian defeat. Afterwards, Athens held control of Boeotia until the battle of Coronea in 447 bce. Thereafter, Boeotia rebuilt its confederacy, and remodelled its federal government along the lines described by the Hellenica Oxyrhynchia (see oxyrhynchus, the historian from).
Boeotia supported Sparta in the Peloponnesian War, with Thebes helping to inflame it by its siege of Plataea. Boeotia defeated Athens at the battle of Delion in 424 bce, and contributed substantially to its eventual defeat. After the peace treaty of 404 bce relations between Boeotia and Sparta cooled to the point where they broke in 395 bce, when Boeotia joined Athens, Corinth, and Argos (1) to oppose Sparta in the Corinthian War. Sparta's victory and the King's Peace resulted in the political fragmentation of the region. A Spartan attack on Thebes in 382 bce further weakened Boeotia, until 378 bce, when Thebes revolted and re-established the Boeotian Confederacy, which ultimately led to confrontation at the battle of Leuctra. There the Boeotian army under Epaminondas defeated Sparta and created a period of Theban ascendancy that lasted until the Third Sacred War. Weakened by the devastation of that war, Boeotia allied itself with Philip (1) II. The alliance, always uneasy, ended with its decision to join Athens to oppose him at Chaeronea in 338 bce. During the Hellenistic period the region was often the battleground of monarchs and leagues alike. Only with Sulla's victory at Chaeronea in 86 bce did Boeotia enjoy peace under Rome. Forming part of Achaia from 27 bce, Roman Boeotia is evoked, with much convincing detail (F. Millar, JRS1981, 63 ff.), in Apuleius' Golden Ass (mid-2nd cent. ce). Although Thebes had declined, Lebadea (see trophonius) and Thespiae hosted Panhellenic cults and festivals; and the family and circle of Plutarch reveal men of culture among Boeotia's landowners. Archaeological survey shows a strong recovery from earlier depopulation in the 4th-6th cents. ce, when Thebes re-emerged as Boeotia's natural centre.
Other sources on their history:
- Boeotia, on Livius: https://www.livius.org/articles/place/boeotia/
- Thebes and Boeotia in the Fourth Century B.C. by S. C. Bakhuizen, on JSTOR : https://www.jstor.org/stable/1192571
- Subdivisions of the Boeotian Confederacy after 379 BC by J. Rzepka, on academia: https://www.academia.edu/download/61549003/Rzepka_Subdivisions_of_Boeotian_Confederacy.pdf
- The military policy of the Hellenistic Boiotian League by Ruben Post, on McGill University: https://escholarship.mcgill.ca/concern/theses/z316q5029
- Thebes, the Boeotian League, and central Greece: political and military development and interaction in the fourth century BC by M.S. Furman, on St Andrews university: https://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/handle/10023/12254
- A history of Boeotia by R.J. Buck, a 220 pages book.
The flamethrower of the Boeotians (5th c. B.C.)
It was the first flamethrower in history and was first used by the Boeotians in the Peloponnesian War for the burning of the Dilion/Delium walls. It consisted of a scooped out iron-bound beam (ripped at length and reconnected) that had a bellow at the user’s end and a cauldron hung from chains at the other end. A bent pipe from the airtight orifice of the beam went down into the cauldron which contained lit coal, sulphur and pitch (tar). With the operation of the bellow, enormous flames were created that burned the wooden walls and removed their defenders. Later it was used for the offence of stone fortifications causing cracks in the stones because of the high temperature and the parallel infusion of vinegar, urine or other erosive substances in them.
Thucydides, 4, 100: [1] The Boeotians presently sent for darters and slingers from [the towns on] the Melian gulf; and with these, and with two thousand men of arms of Corinth, and with the Peloponnesian garrison that was put out of Nisaea, and with the Megareans, all which arrived after the battle, they marched forthwith to Delium and assaulted the wall. And when they had attempted the same many other ways, at length they brought to it an engine, wherewith they also took it, made in this manner: [2] Having slit in two a great mast, they made hollow both the sides, and curiously set them together again in the form of a pipe. At the end of it in chains they hung a cauldron; and into the cauldron from the end of the mast they conveyed a snout of iron, having with iron also armed a great part of the rest of the wood. [3] They carried it to the wall, being far off, in carts, to that part where it was most made up with the matter of the vineyard and with wood. [4] And when it was to, they applied a pair of great bellows to the end next themselves, and blew. The blast, passing narrowly through into the cauldron, in which were coals of fire, brimstone, and pitch, raised an exceeding great flame, and set the wall on fire, so that no man being able to stand any longer on it, but abandoning the same and betaking themselves to flight, the wall was by that means taken. [5] Of the defendants, some were slain and two hundred taken prisoners; the rest of the number recovered their galleys and got home.
More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Delium
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Boeotian_flame_thrower,_5th_century_BC,_Greece_(model).jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Boeotian_Flamethrower.png
Spoiler
The Boeotian League is also known to have implemented military reform during the Hellenistic period. One of the source supporting this is the Great Stele of Thespiai, from which there are mentions of peltophorai (phalangites), an Agema (elite troops unit inspired from the Macedonian army), epilektoi (elite troops, either hoplite like or peltast like), pharetritai (archers), sphendonatai (slingers). In addition we need to add thyreaphoroi/thureophoroi and traditional hoplitai who are mentioned in other sources.
It is also very important to highlight how the Boeotian League and Thebes implemented a lot of training for their troops, from their confrontation with Sparta which also inspired them and their imitation of Athens which developed the Ephebeia. The institutions of Ephebeia and Gymnastikós (gymnastics) were promoted, amplified and strengthened. Xenophon tells us that “all Boiotians exercised under arms” and Plutarch that the Boiotians became famous for “the attention they paid to exercise”. Diodorus also said, when Alexander the Great’s Makedonian troops attacked the Thebans during their revolt in 335, they were still “superior in bodily strength on account of their constant training in the gymnasium”. Boiotians seem to have been more successful than Athens in making the Ephebeia mandatory. Not only do epheboi and neaniskoi train to fight in formation with a shield, they also train with a bow and javelin and in skirmishing techniques. The young men were assessed during a festival called Pamboiotia, which enabled the troops to demonstrate their individual and collective skills.
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Awesome documentary about the Etruscans, check for subtitles and dubbed versions on Arte's website:
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22 hours ago, Stan` said:
I don't imagine there is an equivalent to Celts? Germanic Tribes might work ?
Another name plausible is Teutones.
The name the Germans gave themselves was probably something like this.
*þeudō in proto-germanic would mean 'people' and its derivations as *þeudiskaz 'from the people' and *ϸeudanōz 'those from the people' would be close to the word Teutones. In Proto-Indo-European, *teutonōs would mean "one from the people".
Deutsch derives from this.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/deutsch
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5 hours ago, Stan` said:
I don't imagine there is an equivalent to Celts? Germanic Tribes might work ?
Caesar said the Gauls called themselves Celts. The Celts was the first name reported in the literature, as Keltoi by the Greeks (Herodotus, Hecateus of Miletus, Aristotle). Only later the name Gauls (Galli in Latin and Galatai in Greek) have been popularized. But the Gauls called themselves Celts. We also know a few tribes in Iberia used the name Celtici.
The Britons probably not. In fact all the so-called Celtic people of the British Isles and Ireland, never have been called Celts and never have called themselves Celts in their literature. It is a much later invention when scholars realized the links between the languages (Gaelic, Welsh, Gaulish etc.). And also the mention of druids in both sides. The modern use of the word Celtic is different from the meaning it had during the ancient times.
The same for German and Germanic. Numerous tribes have been called Germanic, but not all. For example the Goths never have been called Germans or Germanic. We know they spoke a Germanic language, but it is a modern view. Not the view they had in the past.
For the Romans, Gauls and Germans are mostly equivalent. The labels are used for a large contiguous population divided in different tribes but occuping approximately the same geographical region. Every outsider from a geographical point of view, like the Britons and the Goths, were not included in the groupings.
3 hours ago, Lech said:Like Hellens for example, wait not. It's Athenians, Spartans and Macedonian.
In the first iterations of 0 A.D., they were grouped in a single Greek civ.
The only reason they are not, is for the gameplay. There is enough material among Greek city-states and Hellenic kingdoms to make several civs with enough diversity.
But the Iberian civ for example is a extreme case of mixing in 0 A.D., like a patch-work of several different cultures.
2 hours ago, Stan` said:Because those are actually documented. Cimbri -500 0 A.D. are not.
Cimbri are documented, their wandering happened at least between 113-101 BC. Although there is not that much info on them, they are a known people.
They are not the first Germanic population appearing in the historical records, this would be the Bastarnae/Skiri.
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Germans would be the most consistent with the other civs.
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5 hours ago, Stan` said:
@Genava55 Any thoughts?
I only gave a quick look to the civilization. But I would hate for it to be a terrible representation of the civ.
The word "Germani" is first popularized by Caesar, he used it to group a large population under one label and he built a narrative with it. There is a debate among scholars to know if Caesar was really the original source, maybe Posidonius of Apameia was the actual original transmitter of the word. But there is no consensus. Furthermore, there is a plausible hypothesis where Posidonius transmitted the named "Germani" to specifically speak about a tribe, not a large group. Tacitus mentioned that the name was originally applied to the Tungri only, then it has been generalized to others. Maybe Tacitus was relying on Posidonius because Caesar doesn't mention the Tungri. Caesar mentions the Aduatuci, the Condrusi, the Eburones, the Caeraesi and the Paemani as being commonly named Germans. Which is interesting because the Tungri could be another name of the Aduatuci. Finally there is something interesting in relation to the Cimbri here: The Aduatuci are a remnant of the Cimbri and Teutones who tried to invade the Belgians and failed. This is explained by Caesar. So the descendants of the Cimbri and Teutones could have been called Germans a few decades after their wandering.
Thus, the Romans did call a large population Germans. German is not a label the tribes used to call themselves, but so do is the name Gaul. The concern with the name Germans and its correspondence with present-day Germans dates back to the Second World War and the Nazis' use of the Germanic theme as an ideological justification. But at no point is anyone going to make the same criticism of the use of the name Greek for the ancient populations of Greece when the Greeks of today bear the same name. The same goes for the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Belgians etc. I don't see why today's Germans should have exclusive use of this name. What's more, the problem only exists with English, and the world does not revolve around Anglo-Saxon countries alone. ‘Deutsch’ in German. ‘Allemands’ in French. ‘Tedeschi’ in Italian. ‘Alemán’ in Spanish.
For me, the only problem with the Cimbri is that they come into conflict with a future faction of the Germans and that they're a single, relatively unknown people. The concept seems interesting, although I haven't tried the faction out yet. If we rename the Cimbri as Germans, it is fine for me. Although it is a bit sad to reduce the Germans to a single tribe.
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9 hours ago, Emacz said:
I just did a quick search (nothing extensive yet) but haven't come across the Macedonian army using xbows. Can someone point me in the right direction. Or were they just added for gameplay/balance purposes?
There is a blog article about it here: https://www.comitatus.net/greekbellybow.html
Although it is not really related to the Macedonians but to the Greeks in general, it is a real ancient weapon.
Edit:
There is a plausible evidence for its use in Macedonia in the 2nd century BC:
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@borg- I think you are the author of this change right?
52 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:Simply speaking, he was not Athenian, being born on the island of Kos. While he probably travelled to Athens, he was an itinerant physician.
To be fair it is not worse than the Marian reform, which didn't exist but is a modern construction from the historiography.
Maybe we can let this one pass, although we need to explicitly say in the encyclopedia he is not Athenian and it has been decided for the gameplay.
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13 hours ago, leopard said:
I think 0AD is not using GPU that much, uses less than 50% every time,
but AOE4 always uses 95% of GPU, when I try to change window to something else everything is stuttering, i.e, every other apps will run slow while AOE4 is running (plus I had screen recorder on).
I think we should be more greedy in terms of resources.
this was openGL, Vulkan is Better than this.
Is it happening when there is no battle formation as well?
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The Zapotecs: Princes, Priests, and Peasants
Although the Zapotecs have lost most of their cultural distinctiveness and undergone many changes, their way of life still displays links with a rich and fabled past. For more than three thousand years, the Zapotec-speaking peoples have occupied the fertile Valley of Oaxaca of southern Mexico – a region that was one of the earliest fully developed civilizations in America. There the Zapotec princely and priestly elites ruled a complex social and political organization, the theocratic state, and the Zapotec temple city of Monte Alban became one of the great cultural centers of Mesoamerica. The decline of the Zapotec civilization, and of Monte Alban as a civil and religious center, began before A.D. 900, with a shift toward divisive militarism, with the arrival of the Mixtecs in the thirteenth century and the rise of the Mixtec-Puebla culture, and with the invasion of the tribute-demanding Mexicas in the fifteenth century. The Zapotec princes’ elite status and most of the religious and political traditions ended. Finally, with the Spanish Conquest, when most of the Zapotecs and Mixtecs were reduced to rural, subject peasantry. This account of the Zapotecs and their worlds is what the author calls anthropological history. He draws on and integrates findings from archaeology, ethnology, ethnohistory, social anthropology, and other fields to reveal as fully as possible the worlds of the Zapotecs. The author, Joseph W. Whitecotton, was Associate Professor of Anthropology at the University of Oklahoma.
Zapotec Civilization: How Urban Society Evolved
A description of the work of Kent Flannery, Joyce Marcus and their colleagues in Mexico's Oaxaca Valley where the Zapotecs created one of the world's original civilizations. At its peak 1500 years ago, the Zapotec capital of Monte Alban - with its magnificent temples, tombs, ballcourts and hieroglyphic inscriptions - dominated a society of over 100,000 people with farflung territorial outposts. Yet a millennium earlier Monte Alban had been uninhabited and the valley's population less than one tenth its later size. The authors of the book go back to the beginnings of the settlement in Oaxaca 10,000 years ago to provide the answers to what caused this sudden cultural flowering.
Ancient Zapotec Religion: An Ethnohistorical and Archaeological Perspective
Ancient Zapotec Religion is the first comprehensive study of Zapotec religion as it existed in the southern Mexican state of Oaxaca on the eve of the Spanish Conquest. Author Michael Lind brings a new perspective, focusing not on underlying theological principles but on the material and spatial expressions of religious practice. Using sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Spanish colonial documents and archaeological findings related to the time period leading up to the Spanish Conquest, he presents new information on deities, ancestor worship and sacred bundles, the Zapotec cosmos, the priesthood, religious ceremonies and rituals, the nature of temples, the distinctive features of the sacred and solar calendars, and the religious significance of the murals of Mitla—the most sacred and holy center. He also shows how Zapotec religion served to integrate Zapotec city-state structure throughout the valley of Oaxaca, neighboring mountain regions, and the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. Ancient Zapotec Religion is the first in-depth and interdisciplinary book on the Zapotecs and their religious practices and will be of great interest to archaeologists, epigraphers, historians, and specialists in Native American, Latin American, and religious studies.
Zapotec: An Affectionate Portrait Of Southern Mexico And Its 3000 Year Old Culture
This engrossing study of southern Mexico, an area fabulous for what it has already yielded to devoted archaeologists, haunting for what it has not yet revealed, centers about the Zapotec as the matrix of the Oaxaca peoples and builders of a glorious ancient culture. First we come to know the peoples of Oaxaca as they are today— the fifteen tribes, their fiestas and ways of life, their cities. Then we travel back in the vertical time of the Indians to trace the possible routes that led to the building of Monte Alban and other sites of ancient civilizations, surmise the reign of the Zapotec to its checking by the Aztec, to the acceptance of the Spaniards as deliverers from the Aztecs and allies against the Mixtecs, and see the consummation of the Zapotec heritage in the person of Benito Juarez, the great and progressive hero of Mexican unification. A fruitful approach to a fascinating research area, this achieves the vertical time of the Indians in showing the unity and change of past and present and gives the reader an insight into the theories research evokes and the facts it assures.
Zapotec Monuments and Political History
Of the four major hieroglyphic writing systems of ancient Mesoamerica, the Zapotec is widely considered one of the oldest and least studied. This volume assesses the origins and spread of Zapotec writing; the use and role of Zapotec writing in the politics of the region; and the decline of hieroglyphic writing in the Valley of Oaxaca. Lavishly illustrated with maps, photographs, and original artwork.
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Just now, real_tabasco_sauce said:
no. Thats not what I meant.
In American cultures there is often little or no writing. So using these as inspiration makes sense.
Yes I understand your idea. But oral tradition is generally related to myths and folklore. Achilles, Cúchulainn and Beowulf were characters from oral traditions until someone wrote the stories down. And there is a long chronological distance between the known legends and the ancient people.
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50 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:
I think it would be fine to employ legends and oral histories as hero inspirations.
Welcome to Achilles, Cúchulainn and Beowulf ?
40 minutes ago, Stan` said:why would it make the Zapotecs easier to include?
Because most of the evidence comes from the Monte Albán III, a phase which is labelled the "Golden Age" or the Classical period of the Zapotecs.
Most of the previous buildings have been rebuilt several times. This is similar to Rome, almost all of the ancient Roman buildings still standing are from the imperial period.
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3 hours ago, Stan` said:
We might add a workaround for this which could be interesting if we know the hierarchical structures, we could add a chief, high priest and maybe some intermediary level. Those would work as heroes. Unlike other civs they wouldn't have a 1 time limit (only max 1 alive)
Of course it is an option.
We could also toss out the awful idea of separating the two time periods into two games (or expansions/mods/whatever Empires Ascendants and Empires Besieged are), that way we can include the Zapotecs more easily from the mod. What's more, as the team has decided to follow the path of eternal releases, freeing itself from explicit milestones (alpha, beta...), this division clearly no longer makes sense.
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On 05/02/2025 at 9:46 AM, Sturm said:
It is long overdue for 0 A.D. to introduce at least one civilization from the Americas. The game does a fantastic job of representing ancient cultures across Europe, Asia, and Africa, but it lacks a crucial element of world history: the civilizations that thrived in the Americas during antiquity. The inclusion of an American civilization would not only add diversity to the game but also introduce unique gameplay mechanics and architectural styles inspired by pre-Columbian societies.
Could you name three historical figures from any pre-columbian civilizations who lived during the time-frame 500 BC to 100 AD?
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1 hour ago, Arup said:
why is 0ad so eurocentric
Kushites, Mauryans, Han Chineses are Europeans now?
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Weird bug on the forum
Spoiler
After editing mode and canceling the edit:
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new trailer for The Bustling World
Ancient Chinese RPG The Bustling World is, in fact, all of the genres, from city builder to life sim
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27 minutes ago, jeffnz said:
I didn't have the $150 NZD to buy it from him, and I had to return it
Which model of graphic card ?
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10 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:
Vier Männer wegen Diebstahls von Keltengold vor Gericht
Court hearings began, accused are four men of robbing the biggest Celtic gold treasure found in the 20th century; of the 3,7 Kg of coins so far only 500g were found: smelted. Barbarians.
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.jpg){kind=link}
Mace Xbows
in Gameplay Discussion
Posted