real_tabasco_sauce

if "buildings" are allowed a capture attack, siege towers could be the only unit capable of capturing walls. Let the garrisoned units modify the capture attack (by quantity), then units from the siege tower could garrison the wall once it is captured. Also, if I CC drop an enemy base, it would be good for their walls to become mine.

I feel like that would be an unnecessarily blunt solution.

Hi @Duileoga this looks like a great lineup, and I think it will make for a well-differentiated civ. Here I will add some thoughts on the lineup in terms of civ balance compared relative to current civs. This looks like a strong CS lineup, and it might be necessary to remove one of the ranged units (probably the archer). I don't understand the idea behind this concept. It should represent a generic Odrysian leader? What would be the role of this unit? Why on foot? I could imagine this being a centurion type unit, with a training limit. That being said it doesn't quite fit super well, as @Genava55 mentioned. I am not sure if I can see a champion skirmisher in that image, but if one of these was a champion skirmisher, that would be awesome. I think this would be a great civ to reintroduce this unit. Perhaps the hoplite should be replaced with heavy skirmisher following @Genava55's point that there were only mercenary hoplites. Does the fortified village have the template of the military colony? I think this would make sense. It would be awesome for these mercenaries to provide units not available as citizen-soldiers (swordsmen, axemen, and clubmen would be a super cool trio, but a mercenary archer would also fit here). I think a swordcav champion would be great for this civ, wielding a rhomphaia would look very cool. The archer chariot is fine from a gameplay perspective, as they would need a unit with range and mobility. Limited ram and ship selection makes sense for the civ. It seems a bit gruesome to train heroes from a mausoleum, no? Jokes aside, it might be good to sort out the unique buildings situation: Currently, the palace trains some champions, the mansion trains other champions, and the mausoleum trains (undead) heroes. How about the following as a solution: The palace trains heroes and any unique champions, like the commander unit (if it is included). This is similar to the gaul theatre building, where heroes and trumpeters are trained. The remaining champions are trained from the barracks/stable. The mansion is a special house available in p3 The mausoleum serves some symbolic role, perhaps providing a global aura, and/or some trickle. Overall, this is looking great! Really nice work!

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4990 (gulf of bothnia gets berries in the berry spot, not deer) https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4992 (mainland QOL update, small gaps between cliffs and forests, options for team placement)

I also just modified mainland to allow custom team placements just like frontier does.

before my patch (not on phab yet): after:

I also allowed a little space in between forests and hills in mainland, so that players do not get "walled in" by combinations of forests and hills. Are there any other easy to fix issues people have with some random maps?

46 }, 47 "Gaia": { 48 "tree1": "gaia/tree/fir_winter", 49 "tree2": "gaia/tree/fir_winter", 50 "tree3": "gaia/tree/temperate_winter", 51 "tree4": "gaia/tree/fir_winter", 52 "tree5": "gaia/tree/temperate_winter", 53 "fruitBush": "gaia/fauna_deer", 54 "chicken": "gaia/fauna_chicken", 55 "mainHuntableAnimal": "gaia/fauna_deer", 56 "secondaryHuntableAnimal": "gaia/fauna_deer", 57 "fish": "gaia/fish/generic", 58 "stoneLarge": "gaia/rock/polar_02", 59 "stoneSmall": "gaia/rock/alpine_small", 60 "metalLarge": "gaia/ore/polar_01", 61 "metalSmall": "gaia/ore/temperate_small" 62 }, I see that the berry spawns on gulf of bothnia frozen lake are instead deer. Was this intended? I guess it makes things seem more 'harsh' of an environment, but I would say this is holding back the multiplayer potential of the map. I'd rather it just be berries.

How would this be fixed? Just make them not decay?

I don't think a wonder victory would be without battles, and I would oppose changing it to the default victory condition. Fighting is the whole point of the game, but I suppose a "trade war" gamemode could be made were one culture has to dominate the map until the other is forced into submission/defeat. To be honest, this is no less morbid up than normal gameplay.

yes, I think I should reduce HP some, as the armor is already 1 for all levels. Alternatively, I could leave their damage unchanged, as we don't want the dogs able to 2-hit women.

I have personally never seen that happen before. Interesting.

Which ones are -20%? It was my intention to make them all -25%. Some slight rounding up vs down does make some just above or just below 25%, but there shouldn't be any with 20%. I didn't change the dog armor, should I reduce its HP some?

update: reduced ele archer damage in accordance with other ranged units increased all buildings hack armor by 5 (40% less hack received, compared to melee units + 50% hack damage) siege units as well

Eliminate sniping, no. We can’t do that since it is just the user controlling units. However, the rebalance should reduce its effectiveness so that it is likely less effective than other forms of micro. Note that this depends enormously on composition and upgrades. automatically sorting by resistance would be extremely lame as this is automating a part of the game that depends on player knowledge, experience, and skill. automating this puts way too much control into a “black box”. in an ideal balance context, the advantage gained from manual targeting will be very small anyway. The benefit of automating it would be obscure for most players, and for experienced players, it would just mean watching a mathematically determined battle outcome, hands free. In battles, I want some control over the outcome this is part of the excitement of 0ad. Instead of proposing automated workarounds, let’s actually address the root of the problem: https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/compare/main...melee_buff?from_project_id=36954588&page=2&straight=false In other words, let opportunity cost be the reason to use micro other than sniping.

I believe there was a "charge" at some point, but it was a bug XD. This might have been one of the a25 release candidates, I can't remember.

Not sure if you mean "freeze" which would mean to keep the current meta and keep sniping. What I have been saying is to just fix the actual problem, so that sniping does not win every time. (maybe only for certain special situations). Here is my solution, it will debut in the community mod since it is such a large rebalance.

Is it not obvious then to fix the actual problem, instead of making sniping automatic? It is common knowledge that having an appropriate skill gap is important for entertainment. Players want to learn and improve. This is how players enjoy games for years, not a couple of weeks. You brought up adding a completely inappropriate skill gap (singing) to explain why it is bad to have an appropriate skill gap (micro) in 0ad, which is comical. Notice I never said we should add more micro, just that we should caution ourselves on automating important parts of the game. If someone wants to automate a lot of the game on their own, I say they are welcome to, but this should be used in casual games, not super competitive ones.

Is this not where 0ad already is? Even at a high level, there are less clicks required than many RTS games. I can often, especially in the early game, take both my hands off the computer and take a bite of food. Much more automation (like auto start, auto sniping) would decrease the skill gap, which is always bad for games.

Well, my point was that it is a little strange to have the mayor be a physical unit, and the president a transient property. Not that big of a deal though, as the other concerns I raised are more important. I agree that more technologies would be nice. As you may recall, I have a good selection of "unit specific" upgrades that would fit really well into the tech tree. They just have to be play tested first in the community mod.

Well I wasn't even considering the detectability. Everything has been fine so far on an honor system, but I imagine competitive players would be very upset to lose to someone automating parts of their game. For the immediate case, I would say the bottom line is that these mods (macros too) shouldn't be allowed in rated games. In terms of game design, I would think it best to keep automation to a minimum, with unit auto-queue being the most 'automated' a feature can be. For example, the "quick start" of ProGUI is too automatic to be a feature.

I must say I personally don't like this idea of "customization." That is choosing a monument to age up with, choosing a governor or choosing one civ bonus of many. It feels like something I would expect in a single player game like skyrim or elden ring, where you progress down a tech tree using experience levels, or where you select a character at the start. I would rather these (bonuses, customizations etc) already be part of the civ to begin with as they currently are, rather than playing "build speed" ptols vs "stronger slingers" ptols. Something like the "governors" would also be conceptually in conflict with heroes. Many RTS games do this, it even seems to be a trend in (relatively) recent titles. I like that 0ad does not have this and sticks to the more interesting core strategy (building, researching, training, and fighting). In general, 1-click strategies should be avoided and I would say the effort would be more impactful if put towards new civs, rounding out existing civs, new units, and civ differentiation efforts.

This is because an Iberian unit comes close to or goes through the gate. When they open it, enemy units can come in. It can be excellent bait if you want to trap a raiding army (very funny), but most skilled players know to avoid this.

yeah I think the two seas skirmish map (with the mountain passes) would be good if made into a random map: mainland style except for the area taken by the two bodies of water, then instead of passes, just make the middle a little mountainous with various elevations and a couple cliffs. That being said, I have no idea how random map scripts work.

ideas for maps: select player spawn type for mainland and other random maps if applicable. (random group, line, stronghold) add berries to gulf of Bothnia - frozen lake. increase minimum spacing between plateaus and forests in mainland add new random map or improve existing random map to compete with mainland for multiplayer. In conjunction with @wowgetoffyourcellphone's naval rework, it would be good to add a balanced water/land random map.