BreakfastBurrito_007

People would argue whether or not seleucids have the best champ cav. Not me, I think they are the best but only with the hero alive. Seleucids also do not have a cheap melee cav option, so in a way they need their champ cav to be good. I agree champ cav in general needs to be nerfed of course but I disagree that seleucids unique bonuses are problematic.

I really appreciate this mod! It is especially helpful when users don’t disclose what mods they use, often trying to avoid having any discussion about rules. There have been many players already surprised to find out that they have been playing on an uneven field for months.

There are also players who don't boom as well but do a good job of winning the first fight in p3, but this is more rare. I think the very fact that we put so much effort into this discussion shows how effective this time to reach 100 pop, or ecu score is as a predictor of a person's 0ad ability. Basically the game boils down to booming or preventing someone from booming, which leads us to the "booming=turtling" thread which highlights the gameplay disadvantages of the citizen soldier system. I'd wonder if this predictor (time to reach 100 pop) would be less effective if there was a male eco unit in the game.

Zapotecs

Idk if you know about it, but triple clicking the hero portrait on the top left will select the hero and take your screen to it. Usually I do a decent job keeping track of my hero and if I notice the portrait blinking when I don't expect it I go and correct my mistake. That being said this is still an amazing mod, a very good quality of life feature.

Also depends on how many more you expect them to make. Some players will make 12 or even less and then stop there and some will continue to make them. If you don't have enough cav to stop them or deter them you may still be able to look at their base and spot stables or extra hunts they may yet take. Another option not previously mentioned is to make a new wood storehouse behind your barracks, so that the camels need to approach your barracks to range your woodline. If the camel player ever has to look at his eco, then you may have a chance to jump through the barracks and kill some camels. Iberians are pretty limited vs camel rush but one of the few nice aspects is that if you have wood against the edge of the map there's only 2 approaches for camels to hit the woodline, so this makes a big difference for iberians' case.

In my opinion the biggest hindrance for walls being effective for their intended use (apart from annoying wall spam that turtle players do) is ease of placement and sealing. Snapping to/from buildings and obstructions such as cliffs would be awesome but I recognize its a complicated thing to accomplish. There have been games where I was able to get a lot of value out of palisade walls, trapping cav in my base or stopping raids, but usually the amount of attention and planning required is as prohibitively expensive as their cost and build time. Real tabasco's comm mod changes for palisades and walls should be a good step in the right direction, and hopefully we get enough comm mod games to make sure of that.

Ah yes this I agree with. Sniping is quite undesirable, I'm not in defense of it I'm just against the game working entirely through buttons using optimized automatic behavior. In my personal opinion automated things are ok so long as they are outperformed by manual human control, and unit behavior falls into this category.

How much faster compared to infantry do cavalry need to be to have a significant mobility advantage? Do they still have a mobility advantage if they are say 1.5x faster instead of 2x? would that result in less cavalry balance problems? Also about the automatic targeting preferences, do we want to control the game entirely through menu systems and functions? or should we accept some imperfection of automated systems (like basic unit behavior) so that players can develop skills to outmicro others and win battles?

It doesn't take any multiplayer or even 0ad experience to understand that automating a signification portion of the game provides an unfair advantage. I wouldn't go hounding grapjas to "verify" if his level is high enough to critique your mod, anyone of any level can do so just like anyone can see through your self-serving argumentation and your dishonest downplaying of the advantages you get from progui.

That is not true. There is a reason you added the autoscaling batches, otherwise you would have left it at 1 by 1. About batch sizes: 1 by 1: highest ROI per unit resource expenditure as is correctly calculated (but largely mischaracterized) by the thread you mentioned. ROI is not everything ofc. batch training: faster population growth, less unspent resources. Progui makes an optimization between these two. Its the same optimization that players try to make in game with their own production, only without even looking at the barracks. Its hard to estimate the net advantage in a pure boom with autotrainer, but it is objectively not 0. There are statistics that could be measured that can help show how big the advantage is, some of them were worked on by @ffm2, and others were deemed to be performance heavy. As others have said recently and as I have said before, the advantage is maximized when a user is able to rush or at least harass clean players so that a clean player is overwhelmed all while a progui user has the minimum possible production building idle time. This manifests itself in gameplay and balance patterns that I've had the misfortune to observe for 2+ years. @Seleucids balancing the game does not automatically make it fair, so balancing atrik including his unwarranted advantage does not solve any problems. Additionally your visibility mod(s) can't be considered cheats as they don't provide an advantage over players who can already see everything fine enough to suit themselves.

balanced does not mean fair. If I play a 1v1 against a better player, its fair but imbalanced. If I use progui to "balance" the game, then its balanced but unfair. Progui also offers strong enough advantages for particular playstyles that it actually alters the unit/strategy/civ balance. @strat0spheric do u know about autostart? thats also in progui, the units path to the nearest resource automatically teleporting thru the cc when necessary. Join a host with me later today and I can show you live.

How else is anyone to learn that you're using this cheat? you certainly don't discuss it during game setup. Also, if a policy is made for tagging hosts that allow progui, I support that. For hosts that don't allow progui no tag should be required as in games its implied that cheating is not allowed, and that also prevents hosts who don't know about progui from being preyed upon.

@TheCJ I'm not sure if you've closely watched progui in effect, but the key difference is that autociv building selections still require a 1:1 action ratio for the each task. In progui 0 cumulative production building idle time can be achieved without so much as a thought let alone an action. Progui basically manages all of the unit production for you, so that your economy automatically grows at the optimal rate while you focus on rushing someone. In this situation the rushed player is overwhelmed with required actions, having to manage economy and micro at the same time while his opponent can simply focus on the fight. To compare autociv and progui as equals is nonsense. Fortunately its very easy to detect. But if you know someone who uses it and would like them to stop, you'll find it very hard to even get a response out of them. Meanwhile hosts simply don't want to deal with drama and would rather start the next game. When I bring attention to cheating its not me that is making the drama its people getting away with cheating.

"Active pause" should not ever be a feature for multiplayer, I'd like to see that fixed when its merged. Perhaps single player users would want it to try to win super challenging scenarios akin to a 1-sided chess match, so I assume that is the demographic where we get those votes from.