Resources Depletion

[Servo]

The game is very pretty but the beauty is being destroyed maybe unintentionaly. Biggest destruction is the wood/forests. Second are the beautiful animals. I understand that we need to gather resources to win or play the game but in a few minutes of gameplay you are destroying the landscapes and probably the beauty of the game. 

I have no knowledge how difficult it is coz I have no idea about but I guess for geniuses of the developers I think this will be possible. Without changing the map/resources:

1. Reduce the amount of gather rate to the minimum allowed for inputting parameters. You can also increase the amount that can be gathered specifically the tree but this might not be necessary. 200 per tree is enough maybe.

2. Since you reduce the gather rate you can also reduce the price of each units, buildings, upgrades or whatever you want to do to use available resources.

Just an example a woman can gather only 1 wood per trip and the farm can generate a certain amount per second but not over gathering, then gatherer of metals and stone do the same thing this will ensure that the game might finish without depleting every resources! 

Now you will say how about the army? I could hardly make one by doing that!? But hey why not reducing the price of buying your army proportional in percentage to the reduction in gather rate?

An example: can we buy one skirmisher cavalry for 4 food, 2 wood, 2 metal. Or a hoplite for 2 food, 2metal, 1 wood. A slinger for 2food, 1stone, 1wood, 1 metal. And so on. 

Same goes with building, upgrades etc.

Values are just examples and estimates especially on wood, metal, and stone.

i don't think it will effect the gameplay. Things will be the same. If you think you are not comfortable with your safety from rush or raids add some initial units.

 

[borg-]

Im my opnion dont work. Exemple: Spearmen cost now: 2 food, 2 wood, ok, but now we need buff, how would it be? 1 food and 1 wood? Its is -50% less. This would apply to everything.

And the soul of the game is exactly this, to look for new resources, to expand etc.

Edited February 3, 2017 by borg-

[Lion.Kanzen]

No, destroy the enviroment is part of civilization development.

1/nope you play AoE 2 there is basicly deforestation simulator. There is worst because you need replant the games.

2 there among are insane don't have sense. I'm not sure if affects gameplay but change whole meta because the enviroment beauty? I don't see that.

[Servo]

My values are example you can put any numbers as long as it doesnt cost much and Btw i don't understand buff or any computer terms. I'm just a casual gamer. 

Well Lion, I played AOE2 and love it except that it's very messy too. I played thousands of hours on single player. 

We had countless wars but there was no total destruction. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

But mostly accurate with resourced than RoN.

the infinity resources. That isn't accurate.

[Servo]

I play the game long hours and won't allow AI to deforest by walling trees almost saving 60% from destruction. But still enjoying it as I allowed him to comeback and build huge armies. 

We are talking RTS does R really exists on on this game and many other games like this?

 

[Servo]

Infinite resources is the most boring game in RTS. I know that because I started playing RoN in infinite resources for maybe 6 months back in 2003. When I transitioned into standard and nomad I saw the beauty's of strategy. They are not accurate that's why I'm still looking for more accurate games like this. But deforestation is just not accurate.  

[Servo]

[Lion.Kanzen]

What means the image/ pic that you uploaded?

[Servo]

I mean I prevent AI from destroying forest but there was an issue on the upper left but still the game is working after a couple restart. It was running very slow on normal speed as if turtling. NVM it's still playable.  

[sphyrth]

borg- already said it.

Running out of trees is part of the gameplay. It forces you to search for another plentiful woodline elsewhere.

Otherwise, if you want lesser wood-chopping speed, with lesser cost, then you should also agree with lesser trees. That's the only way to balance out the resource-scouting aspect of the game.

Yeah, you want the map to stay beautiful. But that's inevitable when you're trying to play the game long-term.

[Servo]

Not a problem with few trees at the start of my first CC at all as long as sufficient enough to sustain until a better location for next chops, CC and/or phase.

Youre right I play long hours call me crazy but average of 6 hours every work days and 12 hours every weekend days. In fact I'm playing same game for almost 5 days already. 

Finding a better location for your border push doesn't necessitate abundance of trees or resources unless your playing a game like RoN that just need to have a better amount of timber or mountain which you only need to fill the spots. But border push are necessary to gain leverage for battle primarily and resources production is secondary. 

This game in multiplayer means war and boomers seldom win over aggressive ones at even skills. But in single player it's either practice or fun. I choose fun. 

Although this game has better safeguard against rush but not safe for raiding. 

[Finchj]

There's been talk in other threads about being able to replant trees. It would need testing.

Deforestation during the timeframe of the game is historically attested from both ancient sources directly as well as archeological evidence. Deforestation occurred across the Middle East, the Mediterranean, and even into the British Isles.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Replant trees don't have any sanes for this cultures.m

[Servo]

Regeneration of animals is possible. 

Lion, replanting may not make sense but but better than nothing. I am sure I'm the only one playing like there's no ending but I'm just stating reality. If fact if the trees does not get chopped quickly it adds deterrence to reckless moves. 

I hope this game should not have same feature like AOE2 that AI quits. I noticed as long as it has merchants (rediculous infinity numbers allowed) the AI can still produce same huge army even it has no more access to non regenerative resources.

Deforestation happens but not to this extent seriously.  There are maps named after real places and you play the game deforesting it almost entirely? 

[Lion.Kanzen]

Quote

Lion, replanting may not make sense but but better than nothing. I am sure I'm the only one playing like there's no ending but I'm just stating reality. If fact if the trees does not get chopped quickly it adds deterrence to reckless moves. 

Isn't accurate with the age.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Quote

Deforestation happens but not to this extent seriously.  There are maps named after real places and you play the game deforesting it almost entirely? 

Isn't a simulator game, you think maps like  Europe have that real scale...?

[Grugnas]

11 hours ago, Servo said:

This game in multiplayer means war and boomers seldom win over aggressive ones at even skills. But in single player it's either practice or fun. I choose fun. 

Although this game has better safeguard against rush but not safe for raiding. 

Since buildings aren't that effective against rushers, the only strategy you can adopt is to reply with another attack, sometimes I find fun to build a massive head quarter and cover my territory with towers aswell, by the way it is not really effective as training soldiers and fight for further resources, even for defending from a rush as happened in the last alpha, expecially in 1vs1.

[Finchj]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Replant trees don't have any sanes for this cultures.m

There is evidence for efforts by Ptolemaic Egypt to start plantations of forests, they even had government owned nurseries for starting trees.

There are lots of old laws governing forests, land ownership, etc from other cultures too. But generally, no real reforestation efforts for most of the civs we have, true. 

Its actually interesting that @Servo walls off trees; there is extensive evidence for sacred groves and places that, often, were walled. That and private paradises for the Persians and later Roman elite.

Planting of trees would be interesting, but I don't think it would be a good addition to the main game. Maybe a mod that leans towards longer games.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Yes,Israelites too, and another civilizations but not all, still having micromanagement. 

[Servo]

My point is not really reforestation but more on the massive deforestation. It's ok around the base but not the entire map! Plants and trees grow naturally as long as the land is not barren. I don't think there was no landscaping during that period so those beautiful trees that were seeded to beautification of the civic center should not be choppable. There should be trees that are really specified for resource gathering and should take longer time to consume. It may be difficult for players but games like this needs familiarization.

Here's the scenario. To train 1 hoplite you need 50 food and 50 wood. For wood consideration it will take 5 women chop-trip to produce now assuming the soldier is born to 2 person(man/woman). The age of conscription is 20 this should require only 20 wood and 20 food or maybe some stone and metal. It may not be the case in reality but just put it this way for consideration. At least you reduce the amount of resources needed to train a soldier thereby you can also reduce the amount of resources needed to train them. That percentage of reduction in cost if applied to a couple (man/woman) to raise a warrior it will at least reduce the number trees chopped. 

I know most gamers hate RTS because it takes time to finish it. They just want to get army asap and do battle even in a messy way. 

With the current popular RTS games like AOE2 or maybe RoN or anything the game has seriousness only in the beginning but when armies are easier to produce they become like crap and scrap. All hell hell just break loose and disorganized. 

I was walking more wooded area of the map sa AI won't chop it  it's evident on the green portion of the minimap. 

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Servo

[Servo]

That's why l like to play this game in very low. In RoN the best popular settings nowadays is nomad, very low resources and very expensive technology. There are more strategy to be applied to win and finish the game. Raiding, organized sieging, teamwork and many more. 

With resources harder to get more strategy are needed and game is more interesting. Games seem to take long but not really. With better gameplan execution game is finished even before age 3.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Servo

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Servo said:

That's why l like to play this game in very low. In RoN the best popular settings nowadays is nomad, very low resources and very expensive technology. There are more strategy to be applied to win and finish the game. Raiding, organized sieging, teamwork and many more. 

With resources harder to get more strategy are needed and game is more interesting. Games seem to take long but not really. With better gameplan execution game is finished even before age 3.

There another type of game, that don't be popular as AoE series. The game ( 0 A.D) is created based a design document.

http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Design_Document

Indeed get so hard to get in early game is a good feeling, but not in that way proposed, the solution you proposed is the same even worst .

 

if you reduce the resources, you probably get same result, the problem aren't the resources, the problem is where and How  you get your economy in early. Even the Warfare.

 

the game is en alpha even beta much things can be changed but not main core.

 

[Servo]

Lion this maybe off topic but first again I like AOE2 and watch the pros play the game. I played AOE3 and AOE too but AOE2 is the best. When the pros play it averages almost 30 mins. The reason is too much concentration on resource gathering resulting in producing so much armies then the battle begins in age 2. All civs have its own bonuses but all players end up advancing age 2 with very little strategy but making sure you gather. Skirmishes are very few just a couple of militia and the scout activity. There's not much complexity to the strategy other than maintaining your economy and produce massive armies at constant rate.

if you happen to play RoN in standard settings which the pros normally do you will see so many types of gameplay and strategy for each and every civs that the gamer has to employ in order to gain advantage, coming back from disadvantage and/or be in the same economic and military levels. Most games end less than 30 mins and finish mostly in medieval age. You don't need to be in the same age always to win but rather how you maintain your gameplay in any prevailing situation so that you stay in the game and win. Annoying raids, border push, massive complex raiding using the generals ability, countering units and avoiding losing military unit early, building invasion armies and maintaining economy etc. There's so much activity that the most you can build is like 5Heavy infantry, a couple archers, a couple of heavy cavalry and light cavalry to defend horse raiders and a catapult for sieging. There is the fear of losing capital and give the sacking player the sack bonus. Well l can't say all. But what I noticed those who don't like RoN are mostly those who can't really play it's complexity. This is the game in which you have to think, guess and analyze the events and not to commit mistakes. If The_Viper play RoN he can become top in a few months because he is fast that is if he has interest of playing on a game with 21 nations with different bonus.

i watch 0AD plays on YouTube but haven't came across a good player or video showing massive strategy. Zero Empire did an interesting one that's why I happen to know 0AD.

if you want to watch some interesting RoN pro games watch Rise of Nations by Manuel S, Generals Gentleman, RoN EE.

i know that this game is patterned from AOE with more reality, nice units though the difference in uniqueness are offset when massive armies collide, walls, rotatable map, maps and many more features. 

There are few pro gamers in Stronghold but the game is very pretty except that they don't have unit promotions, no nice historical units, and not better maps. If they have these 3 I won't be playing anywhere. The moats, the weapons maker, the resource gathering, the units taking, the AI marching and attacking style etc. I just don't like instant build of structures and walls. 

If Civ5 and 6 are not turn based I could put all my unit to more than level 7:)

 

[Zeta1127]

Yeah, I have never really liked the AoE2 (and StarCraft and CnC too) constant production meta.