Summary Screen

[Lion.Kanzen]

The scores are a bit arbitrary, in fact they only show the breakdown between economy and military. the total score helps a bit with visualising that breakdown, but has very little purpose on its own.

The stats on the other pages are more interesting. They show a more detailed breakdown of your play style. Like if you just spawn masses of units, or if your primary goal is claiming more land, or if you invest in defensive structures.

As such, you can see what playing style counters an other playing style, and learn from it. Though I have to agree the current stats don't show all of that, but that's why we appreciate someone working on it.

may be can be use to give nickname or recommend to players what kind a gameplay they does, example if I lost many soldiers and my stockpile was poor at the end, you can improved resources gathering, or if you use a de terminated unit some games show what's was your favorite unit, the most effective unit and the worst.

If you use only cheaper units you can have a achievement unlock with cool a cool nickname.

If a expense many resources in defenses you was a turtle.

If you win in first 10 with many units you was a rusher.

If you destroy all enemy buildings you was a demolisher.

And if in a lot of mtsches we can unlock more medal.

May be for match be can unlock medals and in timeline be can unlock medallions

[sanderd17]

That looks like a nice plan. But I'd like to gather some stats on this first. The lobby could be of great help, as we can collect statistics with it, and use them in different ways, which could be handy for balancing the civs. Or, as you say, giving some nicknames or medals in the long run.

But we'll have to study the stats first.

[Lion.Kanzen]

That looks like a nice plan. But I'd like to gather some stats on this first. The lobby could be of great help, as we can collect statistics with it, and use them in different ways, which could be handy for balancing the civs. Or, as you say, giving some nicknames or medals in the long run.

But we'll have to study the stats first.

I like what battle net doit with Starcraft, and xboxlive.

Tournaments. Clans, know new people, a avatar system, social but I mean a profile like gamertag. Achievements, wins, looses etc.

[dvangennip]

It might be helpful to ask people (in a separate thread perhaps) what they look for in the summary screen at the end of a match. I usually compare my resource gathering with the enemies, just to see if I was quicker or better at that (early on I tend to be slower than any bot, for example, so I'm weakly prepared for rushers). Doing so would give insight in the why and what questions

As for graphs: could it work to draw any graph in a buffer or to a temporary png file and display that? That way graphs can be used in the GUI without many changes, provided the drawing to a temporary file is easier (something I don't know about).

[Mythos_Ruler]

The scores are a bit arbitrary, in fact they only show the breakdown between economy and military. the total score helps a bit with visualising that breakdown, but has very little purpose on its own.

The stats on the other pages are more interesting. They show a more detailed breakdown of your play style. Like if you just spawn masses of units, or if your primary goal is claiming more land, or if you invest in defensive structures.

As such, you can see what playing style counters an other playing style, and learn from it. Though I have to agree the current stats don't show all of that, but that's why we appreciate someone working on it.

Edit: To answer Michael's questions:

* Why do we need a statistic screen?

To check out the play style of different players, see how well it was executed, and check what strategy wins from another, or which strategies are cooperating well.

* Which stats are usefull?

We will only know this after playing some games with them implemented. If they're not implemented, we can only guess how important they will be, or how much information they will contain. If the design is made rather modular. It should be really easy to add or remove a stat.

* What is the best way to show the stats to the player?

A combination of graphs and numbers. Though we are limited by the GUI in this case. Nobody ever got around creating graphs in the GUI. But Santa at least wants to try. Lets see how this turns out and which stats can be better represented as graphs. There will obviously be some stats that will be better shown as graphs. But as long as we don't have the code, we don't really have to discuss this.

* What's best for aesthetics?

That's something for the art team. I'm no master in GUI aesthetics, as long as it's somewhat consistent, I'm ok with it.

I like Lion's approach to this, where the stats are "summed up" for the player. We can actually have both. It is difficult to actually see what each player was trying to do and how successful they were at doing it with the current approach. Perhaps a "strategy" tab that gives scores to different kinds of strategies based on the raw numbers. There would be a lot of guessing or opinion on our part, at least at first, on what the raw numbers mean, but that doesn't mean we can't keep tweaking and tweaking as we go and as strategies and playtesting shake out.

So, the "Strategy" tab could have columns of various strategies, like "Defensive" "Rushing" "Booming" etc., where we weight all of the stats differently to give each player a score (or percentage) in each of these strategy columns. This would at least give some kind of "context" to all the raw numbers in the other tabs.

[Lion.Kanzen]

This can be considerate as misc and a multiplayer Comunity feature.

I'll find some seach where is the beginning of this achievements, and etc etc.

Edit:

So, what exactly are achievements? If you've never used a modern game console, you may have missed out entirely on this new trend in gaming. Goals are set within the game, or now, within the software, and when users reach those goals, they are rewarded with an achievement badge or through a point system. Achievements can be anything from registering for a new application to completing 100 form submissions or expense reports.

Tony Ventrice, senior designer at Badgeville, said, We have both an API as well as a suite of turnkey widgets along with the frameworks that people can take and embed with a couple lines of JavaScript code.

Having embedded said code in an application, users can then be tracked according to how many goals they've accomplished. Users can also show off their badges to exemplify just how expert they are at certain tasks and systems. These badges are all about establishing a social reputation system, said Ventrice.

Gamification systems are important, and they work much better in a social context. It's about bringing social features to your experiences. We're seeing that a lot from our customers: People want to be social but they don't know how to be. It's not about sending employees to that outside site. You're earning points in a community.

Read more: http://sdt.bz/36632#ixzz2oCjVqeDM

"

This was ann interesting but don't explained at 100 % my point.

The goals, a life without goals is bored so if it's this way, why don't have gaming goals in our community.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_(video_gaming)

In video gaming parlance, an achievement, also sometimes known as a trophy, badge, award, stamp, medal or challenge, is a meta-goal defined outside of a game's parameters. Unlike the systems of quests or levels that usually define the goals of a video game and have a direct effect on further gameplay, the management of achievements usually takes place outside the confines of the game environment and architecture.

But is this some topic off? Not all.

If we get all ts statics numbers and converts into goals, goals are converted in medals and awards. Unlock art, maps , I don't know.

It's about doing a best use for those summary numbers and statistics.

Why 20000 amount of gold mine if in the next game is 0. Why forget my victories? And all civic center I was destroyed since Alpha 4?

[Lion.Kanzen]

And finally the point of my reply.

Achievements are included within games to extend the title's longevity and provide players with the impetus to more than simply complete the game but find all of its secrets. They are effectively arbitrary challenges laid out by the developer to be met by the player. These achievements may coincide with the inherent goals of the game itself, such as completing a level, with secondary goals such as finding secret power-ups or levels, or may also be independent of the game's primary or secondary goals, such as playing a certain number of times, viewing a video, beating a certain number of online opponents or completing a level in a certain amount of time. Certain achievements may refer to other achievements - many games have one achievement that require the player to have gained every other achievement.

Unlike secrets, which traditionally provided some kind of direct benefit to the player in the form of easier gameplay (such as the warp pipe in Super Mario Bros.) or additional gameplay features (such as hidden weapons or levels in first-person shooters like Doom) even though they might have criteria similar to achievements in order to unlock, the narrative-independent nature of achievements allows them to be fulfilled without needing to provide the player with any benefit or additional feature. In addition, the achievements used in gaming are usually visible outside the game environment (for example, on the Internet) and form part of the online profile for the player (Gamertag for Microsoft's Live Anywhere network, for both Xbox 360 titles and Games for Windows - Live supported PC Games, PSN ID for PlayStation Network (PSN)) or a particular character (Achievement Points in World of Warcraft). The motivation for the player to gain achievements lies in maximizing their own general cross-title score (known as Gamerscore on LIVE and Trophy Level on PSN) and obtaining recognition for their performance due to the publication of their achievement/trophy profiles. Some players pursue the unlocking of achievements as a goal in itself, without especially seeking to enjoy the game that awards them.

Some implementations use a system of achievements that provide direct benefits to the gameplay, although the award is usually not congruent with the achievement itself. One example of such an implementation are "challenges" found in the multiplayer portions of the later Call of Duty titles. Challenges here may include a certain number of headshots or kills and are rewarded not only with the completion of the achievement but also a bonus item that can be equipped. Team Fortress 2 features 3 milestones for each of the nine classes. When a milestone is reached by doing an specific amount of achievements for each class, the player will be awarded a non-tradable weapon unique to that class.

[feneur]

Something else to remember: The point of the summary screen isn't necessarily just to have a purpose in the sense of seeing who's the better player, or what strategies were used, or whether it paid off to do things at a certain time etc. It's also got a purpose in the sense of making the game fun, providing some "useless" statistics which are just there to amuse the player isn't necessarily a bad thing. That doesn't mean that we necessarily have to display the total score on the first page or have the less strategically important things show up in the first tabs or anything, just that we shouldn't remove things just because they don't make you a better player if you study them carefully.

That said I'd actually say that the total score can still be a useful thing, especially if it's displayed in-game. I find in e.g. Age of Kings that it gives you a good idea on how you fare against other players, not exactly, but you'll know if you're far behind them etc. Also, since this is an economy/war game, and not just a war game (nor a citybuilder or something where only/mostly the economy side is important), it's not as if it's useless to gather a lot of resources. I highly doubt that you'll get a high overall score just due to gathering a lot of resources, if so I think the score needs to be adjusted rather than removed completely. Again, perhaps something else is more important to display on the first page, I just think that it shouldn't be removed completely.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Something else to remember: The point of the summary screen isn't necessarily just to have a purpose in the sense of seeing who's the better player, or what strategies were used, or whether it paid off to do things at a certain time etc. It's also got a purpose in the sense of making the game fun, providing some "useless" statistics which are just there to amuse the player isn't necessarily a bad thing. That doesn't mean that we necessarily have to display the total score on the first page or have the less strategically important things show up in the first tabs or anything, just that we shouldn't remove things just because they don't make you a better player if you study them carefully.

That said I'd actually say that the total score can still be a useful thing, especially if it's displayed in-game. I find in e.g. Age of Kings that it gives you a good idea on how you fare against other players, not exactly, but you'll know if you're far behind them etc. Also, since this is an economy/war game, and not just a war game (nor a citybuilder or something where only/mostly the economy side is important), it's not as if it's useless to gather a lot of resources. I highly doubt that you'll get a high overall score just due to gathering a lot of resources, if so I think the score needs to be adjusted rather than removed completely. Again, perhaps something else is more important to display on the first page, I just think that it shouldn't be removed completely.

For tournament and social Comunity , even for team can be great.

In AOE you can progress with XP in each game. So this way I feel all gold was good. As I say before is not mainly necessary but we can't disagreed about have achievements .

[Bajter]

To be honest?

The point of summary screen is to be... A summary screen.

You played a long, few hours game. You wan't to figure out what your enemies did. Let's say there's no replay feature, or that you don't have time to watch a rep. What do you do? You analyse the summary screen.

In my first (played) RTS game, Dune 2, and in another one worth mentioning - Warcraft 1 - I was always interested in those filling bars, numbers. It was interesting, especially that I've seen wether I've surpassed my enemy in resources, or not. Maybe I managed to get him down with worse resource production, and I was just a better tactician?

Yeah. Summary screen is important, it led me towards my liferoad in some degree, so I guess it does make sense we want to make this thing right.

If there was a stat like "player type" to be added - I'd add it as a miscellaneous stat, because it's just something like a cherry on top of a pie.

It's not safe to go alone, take one of these:

Sorry for the OT ;P

[Lion.Kanzen]

To be honest?

The point of summary screen is to be... A summary screen.

You played a long, few hours game. You wan't to figure out what your enemies did. Let's say there's no replay feature, or that you don't have time to watch a rep. What do you do? You analyse the summary screen.

In my first (played) RTS game, Dune 2, and in another one worth mentioning - Warcraft 1 - I was always interested in those filling bars, numbers. It was interesting, especially that I've seen wether I've surpassed my enemy in resources, or not. Maybe I managed to get him down with worse resource production, and I was just a better tactician?

Yeah. Summary screen is important, it led me towards my liferoad in some degree, so I guess it does make sense we want to make this thing right.

If there was a stat like "player type" to be added - I'd add it as a miscellaneous stat, because it's just something like a cherry on top of a pie.

It's not safe to go alone, take one of these:

Sorry for the OT ;P

After 100 matches the summary screen can be irrelevant.

[sanderd17]

But so are the tooltips, while they appear everywhere in game, and the summary screen doesn't interfere with the gameplay.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Now , why have graphics bars and all statistics graphic like timeline.

[Bajter]

That's something for a separate topic IMO (and another ticket ).

Those graphs are cool when you're playing with friends, cause you can say "Look, this is when I raided your village, look how your income rapidly went down! Mwahahahahaha!"

I'm not sure what are we arguing about, it was on a "nice to have" list after all.

[Josh]

It might be a good idea to look at how the AI assess players to get a better idea of how to calculate scores. That would be because the AI is typically effective at judging who is the strongest player (and hence the player it attacks first).

[Mythos_Ruler]

That's something for a separate topic IMO (and another ticket ).

Those graphs are cool when you're playing with friends, cause you can say "Look, this is when I raided your village, look how your income rapidly went down! Mwahahahahaha!"

I'm not sure what are we arguing about, it was on a "nice to have" list after all.

I definitely think we should have a summary screen. I'm personally just wanting the presentation to be top notch and relevant to what happened to the game. It should actually summarize what happened (as well as give the myriad of stats some people enjoy). I really like Lion's initial idea and then my addendum to it to have the game assess the player's strategy and break it down, perhaps in percentages, what each player was trying to accomplish.

So, e.g., a 'Strategy' tab:

Player             Faction          Rush     Boom     Turtle  ....          Mythos_Ruler       Macedonians       20%      35%        10%  ....  100%

And each category would weigh the stats differently. For instance, "Turtle" category would weigh number of wall segments and defense towers, while "Rush" heavily weighs the severity of attacks within the first 10 minutes. We'd just need to decide on a number of categories and come up with the stats each one would weigh.

[Bajter]

I think my and Kabzerek work in Summary Screen part is finished now.

Here are the screenshots of how it looks:

http://i.imgur.com/3p6qSfD.jpg (infinity sign on miscellaneous tab, at Kill/Death ratio column, when someone killed a unit, but didn't lose any)

These with unindented team totals:

http://i.imgur.com/fj4knS6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WhmqrfH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tmT0amm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HeBTI0y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/amkahcv.jpg

After the indent:

http://i.imgur.com/b53p5dx.png (notice how unteamed players are without a header or team total score)

Hopefully everybody likes the effect

There's still place for two more tabs, and some place on miscellaneous tab if there is something to add in the future (you could add "Strategy" and "Graphs" tabs and it'd all look fine)

[hollth]

I really really like the idea of tying in stats to some form of external motivator like achievements. Even better if that can be linked to 'unlocking' or 'buying' new civs. Many benefits with something like that. Thats somewhat off topic so back to the summary screen.

I suspect having peoples play style are summed us as turtler etc, will be one of those things that looks good on paper but not in practice.

Is it feasible to have the summary sent as a means of determining balance? If so, I would add trackers to help determine balance but not have all of tracked things visible to the player. (hope that makes sense)

I'm still sitting on the fence about if scores are for better or worse. Although I personally am in favour of having a score, I feel like not having a score would be better for what people want.

[quantumstate]

That new summary screen with the teams looks great . I'm not sure feminisation is quite the right word though.

I don't like the idea of having rush, boom, turtle ... scores. It is too hard to define what these mean so they will never quite correspond to quite what each player thinks they mean and will be confusing. I would prefer to stick to simple scores so it is clear what they mean. Things like wood gathered are obvious and useful.

I don't mind the idea of acheivements though I don't care for them myself. I really dislike unlocking things though, I want to be able to play the full game unrestricted right away instead of spending time unlocking things.

One starcraft 2 score that I found particularly useful for competitive play is average unspent resources.

[Lion.Kanzen]

That new summary screen with the teams looks great . I'm not sure feminisation is quite the right word though.

I don't like the idea of having rush, boom, turtle ... scores. It is too hard to define what these mean so they will never quite correspond to quite what each player thinks they mean and will be confusing. I would prefer to stick to simple scores so it is clear what they mean. Things like wood gathered are obvious and useful.

I don't mind the idea of acheivements though I don't care for them myself. I really dislike unlocking things though, I want to be able to play the full game unrestricted right away instead of spending time unlocking things.

One starcraft 2 score that I found particularly useful for competitive play is average unspent resources.

Ok we don't need unlocking civs. We need extra stuff but not game gameplay. Gaming after gaming can be boring is like a routine, so we can update the game constantly , every moth, I do more sociable, I mean tournaments, special events,now I remember in Starcfraft II challenges unblocking levels.

I know this not necessary but, is part of modern gaming. AoEO was a bad game but the people enjoy with them. I remember see statistic of all my gameplay. 30 hs gameplay, most preference unit use, most faction used, this more for the gamer profile.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Seen Romulus play about Lost units vs Killed, is mission ratio about these. in the most of RTS is present that Statistic info.

[sanderd17]

It's planned, only the lobby needs fixing to support the new stats.

[Lion.Kanzen]

It's planned, only the lobby needs fixing to support the new stats.

I can give a look to that list? I want find if I can see a another that can be missing.

[sanderd17]

It's somewhere on the forums here. Bajter worked on it, and made the forum posts and stuff.