Celts or Gauls?

[SDM]

In my opinion using Gaul would be the akin to taking one native American tribal name and then applying it to a whole region that you wanted to control, but not reflecting any of the other tribal names.

You seem like a well-educated person, so do you have an alternative term to describe these peoples?

I think that choosing names that the peoples identified themselves would be a better choice than choosing a Romanized (unless they're Roman) or contemporary name. It would be the most neutral choice. However, if there is a lack of knowledge on what they call themselves, then there isn't much that can be done.

[greycat]

You seem like a well-educated person, so do you have an alternative term to describe these peoples?

I think that choosing names that the peoples identified themselves would be a better choice than choosing a Romanized (unless they're Roman) or contemporary name. It would be the most neutral choice. However, if there is a lack of knowledge on what they call themselves, then there isn't much that can be done.

...they were but lately denominated Gauls, for they have always called themselves Celtae.

Pausanias (fl. c. 150 A.D.) was a Greek geographer and native of Lydia who explored Greece, Macedonia, Asia and Africa, and then settled in Rome.

This is what the Scotish Highlanders also call them, as well as Celt

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[Lion.Kanzen]

I don't see the point to this yet. This don't change anything in game. Mostly of people call them Gauls and other Brythonic or Britons.

For example Romans call for they self Romani but we don't change in Game romans name.

[greycat]

It should be cultures name not a province name of Rome. i.m.o.

It doesn't matter if it is in Greek or English to me.

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[Lion.Kanzen]

The Province name is Britania.

How we can differenciate the Celts in Britania, Iceni? I don't think so.

How we can differenciate the Celts in Gaul?

Arverni? Neither.

Both are Celts, like Germans. Example I'm Honduran we call ourselves Hondureños but all call Spanish or Latinos. We aren't Spanish because we come from Spain. we aren't Latinos Because we don't Speak Latin. But I accept Latinoamerican or Hispanoamerican. But how call they after 2000 years?.

[greycat]

we are not talking about the same thing...

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[Lion.Kanzen]

Yes, is hard to do. But take easy, may be in future the archaeological evidences say other things, the history is written every day. But for now we need take a name for each language that are oficial.

But the game is open you can change many things and traslates in a language that you want.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[greycat]

ok

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[GunChleoc]

...they were but lately denominated Gauls, for they have always called themselves Celtae.

Pausanias (fl. c. 150 A.D.) was a Greek geographer and native of Lydia who explored Greece, Macedonia, Asia and Africa, and then settled in Rome.

This is what the Scotish Highlanders also call them, as well as Celt

This is what Scottish Highlanders call things now (those who still speak their own language):

Gaul (country) = A'Ghall

Celt (person) = Ceilteach

You see the gal- root in Celts' names for themselves all over the place, from the Galatians in the East to the Irish and Scottish Gaels in the west. And of course they used to speak a Celtic language in Galiza, where our own Gallaecio comes from.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Galicia the latest Roman conquest in Spain, but they do a translation for all thinks the same, but for now we supporting common knowledge. That is the beauty of this project put in our hands our vision of the world, many people want put original names like Europa Barbarorum.

[Mythos_Ruler]

You seem like a well-educated person, so do you have an alternative term to describe these peoples?

I think that choosing names that the peoples identified themselves would be a better choice than choosing a Romanized (unless they're Roman) or contemporary name. It would be the most neutral choice. However, if there is a lack of knowledge on what they call themselves, then there isn't much that can be done.

The Athenians did not call themselves "Athenians." Neither did the Persians call themselves "Persians." These are Anglicized words. The Macedonians called themselves Makedonikoi. Yet, we are calling them Macedonians, because that's how English speakers know them. Likewise, English speakers know "Gauls" as those Celts who lived in the region called "Gaul" in Latin. It is very likely the Iberians did not refer to themselves as Iberians. "Carthage" is Anglicized, coming from Latin, "Carthago." I don't know what my point is here. Other than to say that it is all rather arbitrary.

[Lion.Kanzen]

In this a game, is for gamers we don't try to simulate the history only relive it. We lost Iberian and Carthaginian language.

[SDM]

It is very arbitrary indeed. That's why a native name would be most ideal. Unfortunately, no matter what you do, it will be very inconsistent since there isn't much information about some of the peoples.

Edited October 21, 2013 by SDM

[greycat]

I agree for game purposes these divisions are acceptable.

What I was attempting to explain is the Germans were also anciently called Celts. Much has been written both ancient and modern that concludes the Roman divisions are based on geography not the people. I am not saying the game needs the change, it our minds.

The Celts didn't have one language. The modern classification of Celtic languages is thus flawed. Ancient German would be as much a Celtic language according to ancient writers.

You are correct there is nothing wrong with the classifications in the game.

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

In modern times we got very excited about the Celts and classified things such as languages and even mistakenly to older cultures (stonehenge). We just never looked deep enough...

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[SDM]

Just to clarify, you're simply informing us rather than suggesting change, right?

[greycat]

Just to clarify, you're simply informing us rather than suggesting change, right?

Yes.

sry I have ocd and social anxiety... communication is probably not my strong point...

[greycat]

They do seem a little generic to me though compared to say like the Spartans...i.m.o.

It is probably my own personal rejection of national identities also...

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

"Nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, or history. However, it can also refer to people who share a common territory and government"

It is the second part I am not comfortable with...

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

we all came from Africa originally.

[greycat]

The druids claim to to be Aborigine, which most scholars interpret as meaning "from the earth".

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

People born into Celtic speaking country are not really Celtic.Those that learn the culture are Celtic.

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[greycat]

AD 260 - Clement of Alexandria’s Stromala
I, xv, 71, 3 1 Thus philosophy, a science of the highest utility, flourished in antiquity among the barbarians, shedding its light over the nations. And afterwards it came to Greece. First in its ranks were the pro-phets of the Egyptians ; and the Chaldeans among the Assyrians ; and the Druids among the Gauls ; and the Samanaeans among the Bactrians; and the philosophers of the Kelts; and the Magi of the Persians.

[greycat]

In the ancient literature I have encountered Kelt (German) is the more proper pronunciation. Gaul is a term for a more Roman (Latin) Celt living in the area of Gaul. The German Kelts seems to have another religion than the druids of Gaul. Both were anciently of the same people and called Kelts/Celts.

Edited October 21, 2013 by greycat

[GunChleoc]

I agree for game purposes these divisions are acceptable.

What I was attempting to explain is the Germans were also anciently called Celts. Much has been written both ancient and modern that concludes the Roman divisions are based on geography not the people. I am not saying the game needs the change, it our minds.

The Celts didn't have one language. The modern classification of Celtic languages is thus flawed. Ancient German would be as much a Celtic language according to ancient writers.

You are correct there is nothing wrong with the classifications in the game.

You should not confuse the cultural similarities as they were percieved by the ancient Romans with the linguistic fact that Germanic languages and Celtic languages are two different families within the Indo-European languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

If you don't believe me, try to learn a Celtic langage and you will notice how different from English it is. English is a Germanic language with a huge dollop of Romance chucked into it due to the Norman invasion.