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Old Irish

akerbeltz

By akerbeltz,
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GunChleoc Centurio

GunChleoc

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I need to do more research into this but it seems to be closer to Latin than the modern Celtic language are...

That is correct, just like Old English is closer to Old German than modern English is to modern German, for example. There are arguments that the Italic languages (including the Romance languages) and the Celtic languages are more closely related to each other than to the other branches of the Indo-European languages. I won't go into them here, as it's all pretty technical.

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greycat Triplicarius

greycat

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Posted (edited)

A closer language to the Celts would be Welsh.

This is why having the Celts speaking Irish in the game is personally offensive to me. St. Patrick is known for driving the snakes out of Ireland. These snakes were the druids, the last followers of the Celtic religion. I have nothing against the Irish language or people of today, but celebrating St. Patrick's day is almost as bad as celebrating Hitlers day to me. I believe I may have upset to many people here already and have decided to create my own game were pagans are more properly depicted. Thanks.

Edited by greycat
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GunChleoc Centurio

GunChleoc

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Well, the snakes St. Patrick drove out were Celts who spoke Goidelic. So, only because he learned to speak Goidelic as well, it is not acceptable as a language for the game? I don't think so. Patricius was born in the former Roman provinces of Britannia, so we should probably ban Latin and Brythonic languages from the game instead, since it is likely that these were his native languages.

Next thing we won't have the Germanic factions speak old German dialects because of Hitler.

My point being: Finding a language offensive because of one person that spoke it is something you should think twice about. IMO it is an overreaction.

Edited by GunChleoc
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greycat Triplicarius

greycat

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Well, the snakes St. Patrick drove out were Celts who spoke Goidelic. So, only because he learned to speak Goidelic as well, it is not acceptable as a language for the game? I don't think so. Patricius was born in the former Roman provinces of Britannia, so we should probably ban Latin and Brythonic languages from the game instead, since it is likely that these were his native languages.

Next thing we won't have the Germanic factions speak old German dialects because of Hitler.

My point being: Finding a language offensive because of one person that spoke it is something you should think twice about. IMO it is an overreaction.

Even if they did speak Goidelic also by the 5th Century there is no evidence of them speaking it or even being in Ireland in the time frame of game. They killed them for religious reasons and not because of the language they spoke. The language is not offensive, having Celts speak it as their native language is. It also goes against science. You have to understand they were driven to Ireland and were not from there. I don't hate the Irish culture or language.

Edited by greycat
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  • 2 weeks later...
Rodmar Sesquiplicarius

Rodmar

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Hello,

I'm not a linguist, but from what I read, the pre-medieval languages nearest to antic Brythonic are old Welsh and hence old Breton. Given that modern Welsh and modern Breton are almost mutually-understandable, yet people were quite isolated for many centuries from each other, chances are that both languages haven't much departed from their common ancestor.

(Welsh: pedwar = Breton: pevar; Welsh: bara = Breton: bara; Welsh: pen = Breton: pen; Welch: corff = Breton coff)

So, for the Briton in game, you'd better ask Welch (or Breton) linguists whether they have an idea about the old pronunciation.

As far as continental Celtic is concerned, you could use the same data and try to alter the pronunciation according to linguistic works, or use such artistic work as Eluveitie's from Switzerland (I don't know what their sources are, and how this language was recreated, however)

According to those artists, Gaulish (Helvetian) could have been like this:

Immi daga uimpi geneta,
lana beððos et' iouintutos.
Blatus ceti, cantla carami.
Aia gnata uimpi iouinca,
pid in cete tu toue suoine,
pid uregisi peli doniobi?

N'immi mapos, immi drucocu.
In cetobi selgin agumi,
selgin blatos tou' iouintutos.
Nu, uoregon, cu, uorigamos,
lamman, cu, suuercin lingamos,
indui uelui cantla canamos!

Here, you can look at their songs' lyrics and see if a Welch-speaking can read it (or at least understand the songs on youtube).

I guess they'd know how to say "I'm going to hunt" or "Go to battle!" in this recreated language, should they be asked. It would definitively add to diversity.

[EDIT] Okay, after some search, it is recreated Gaulish (or invented from some roots, toponyms and the few words left on stones).

Here is a translation to English; does it make sense to an Irish- or Welsh-speaker ?

N’immi mapos, immi drucocu.
I am not a boy, I am the bad wolf.

In cetobi selgin agumi,
In the woods I hunt,

selgin blatos tou’ iouintutos.
hunt for the flower of your youth.

Nu, uoregon, cu, uorigamos,
Well, wolf, let us play a game,

lamman, cu, suuercin lingamos,
let us dance a joyful dance,

indui uelui cantla canamos!
let us sing decent songs!

Edited by Rodmar
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