upgrading the citizens - topic

[Lion.Kanzen]

Well unarmed we can talk here, about other civilian. The guy don't understand the main feature of 0ad are the citizen soldiers. Even me can hard yo play they way. That why we have a Mod forum.

We are talk about advanced citizen that are more complex than citizen soldier.

spy/assasin.

Merchant are already in the game is best example.

Fisherman too.

Diplomatic. And want sell this, may be as eye candy.

Engineer. That can mix of scientist.

helaer exist but can have abilities per faction. Example some can do surgery other can fight... Etc.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[tribalbeat]

Do you actually think about what you are about to post or do you just make it up as you go along? I can't decipher what in god's name you are trying to say.

[Lion.Kanzen]

This topic start and another topic. But that user get mad with the user Unarmed and me. Because they thinks is too much off topic, our discuss and when writte I was some angry, so don't, writte properly and I write in Spanish if you don't understand me in English.

Lo que paso aqui es que un tipo en otro post se enojó por que discutimos una alternativa más viable. A su pobre punto de vista. Este sujeto quiere cambiar algo, escrito en piedra, lo que digo es quitar el pilar de Los citizen soldiers 0.A.D. Y pueda que tenga razón, amo este foro, tanto como los desarrolladores.

Ahora entiendo porque la gente no se anima a entrar aquí e intentar hablar otro idioma.

Creo que lo justo es que me expulsen si no me soportan. Yo hago lo que puedo para colaborar, hasta daría bastante dinero. Pero no.

Y eso que insensible a mucho que hablan español a hacerlo. Ahora me arrepiento.

La única forma que terminen con mi adicción a este juego es que me Expulsen.

Edited July 7, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Enrique]

Lion, nadie se enojó porque discutieseis una alternativa más viable (que no es el caso). Simplemente todos los post que hiciste en ese thread fueron off-topic, de ahí la queja del posteador inicial.

No cuesta nada admitir que te fuistes del tema inicial como hizo Unarmed y seguir con la discusión en lugar de decir que la única forma de evitarlo es que te expulsen.

Es verdad que los citizen-soldiers es una característica única de 0AD, pero se puede sugerir y dar tu opinión sobre cualquier tema del juego, igual que haces tú.

Lion, nobody got angry because you discussed a viable alternative (which is not the case). Just every post you made on that thread was off-topic, therefore the complaint of the original poster.

It's not too hard to admit that you went of topic like Unarmed did and continue the discussion on-topic instead of saying that the only way to avoid it is being banned. We're civilized persons and we all can go off-topic sometimes

It's true that citizen-soldiers is a unique feature of 0AD but everyone can suggest and give his/her opinion about any feature in the game, just like you do.

On-topic...

Those examples you give, I personally prefer to have the option to train directly that kind of unit instead of having to select a citizen-soldier and click on a button to "upgrade" the unit to a new type of unit.

You also just name the unit types, but you don't specify what would do each one and you named two unit types which are already in the game, so not sure the point you want to make.

[Unarmed]

(This is all I want to say about it, and I'm not angry at all:)

The user made a fair complaint, though the way he said it was immature and unnecessary; there was no need to attack us "personally".

We weren't even the only ones going off-topic. However, I did go off-topic, so I apologized for doing that, and I pointed out he could have been more politely.

It's easy to just ask: "Can we please stay on-topic?". He did not even take the effort in his last post to go on-topic, instead he made a provocative comment

that could have turned it into a nasty off-topic discussion. I do not take such "bait".

On-topic...

Those examples you give, I personally prefer to have the option to train directly that kind of unit instead of having to select a citizen-soldier and click on a button to "upgrade" the unit to a new type of unit.

You also just name the unit types, but you don't specify what would do each one and you named two unit types which are already in the game, so not sure the point you want to make.

I agree with Enrique. I prefer to train units than upgrading them when they are trained. Even if you mean that citizen-soldiers would upgrade like they do when they fight.

You need to explain the unit types better Lion Kanzen. Even so, I think I only like the spy.

But what I've heard so far about the spies, I don't like them that much. I don't know how it works, but it seems annoying that spies can open gates and kill units easily. Bribing sounds bad too. Why I find this annoying; I can't seem to do anything about it.

In Seven Kingdoms there are counter spies who will find and kill spies automaticly, you'll easily notice when someone strange goes into your barracks to bribe or kill generals or soldiers, killing generals (or soldiers) is not easy in that game, your spy needs to be high level otherwise he will get caught, and loyality makes sure not everyone can be (easily) bribed. You could even sabotage resource production, steal information of the kingdoms, and in Seven Kingdoms 2 you can do false flag operations, false flag operations means you operate as if another nation does it. So you can do something bad to a nation and that nation thinks another nation but not you did it.

Spies can be good as proved by Seven Kingdoms. But this game is so different compared to 0 A.D. In Seven Kingdoms you have to put soldiers into barracks or their loyalty will go down and they will betray you, spies can only kill and bribe soldiers inside buildings. The economy in Seven Kingdoms is very different. Etc. Etc. Since this game is so different I only suggest things that could work in a 0 A.D. type of game (like the diplomacy).

Spies cloak to another faction in 0 A.D. And there are random civilians who join your nation so you are not always sure if it is a spy or not.

[chaosislife]

Your spies don't have to be very high level to assassinate if there's 15 of them. Tho bribery is still tricky. And if you're playing that game I'll give ya a hint: bribe all heros, place them next to a inn, quickly convert them to independent and put them inside the inn. Now sell the inn and wait to recieve a new hero of the same type with different stats. It's basically infinite heros.

[Jubalbarca]

I've had several thoughts with regards to this - particularly what I'd like to see is more specialists working in the towns, possibly tasked on particular buildings.

So for example;

- For each citizen-soldier I task on a smithy I get a drop in metal cost when training troops or all troops get a small attack bonus

- For each one I task on a pot-maker I get boosted food gathering speed

- Some could also be resource converters, say an eating place converts food to coin at a trickle

- And so on; the thing that's often bugged me traditionally about RTSes is the extent to which the town slowly becomes a gutted no man's land only occupied by troops not an increasingly bustling centre of trade and commerce.

That said, I suspect the above is very much something to be kicked into the realms of modding as there are much bigger programming priorities right now.

[wraitii]

Matter of fact, I'd like this: it sounds like a good idea to gradually replace resource gathering. We could task units to the blacksmith to create metal (perhaps with a wood->metal conversion that would be improved by technology?) instead of going to mine. The problem is that this would still mean a huge need for wood, which is quickly becoming a limiting supply in the later game. Not sure what to do against that. Perhaps some kind of "farm" building that would give out wood (start depleted, very slow repletion, can only be harvested when full or something).

Obviously the market is another way to replace resource gathering late-game but it's not always usable and I think it would be good to have alternatives.

I kind of like the idea of having "specialist" buildings too, but that might make this all too "Anno"ish.

[chaosislife]

If we can do tasking, lets make it a garrison thing.....it'd suck to have all of your tasked units either walk off to battle or get otherwise killed whenever a troop passes by. If we just count the tasking like a garrison bonus it'll be easier to manage. Also, garrisoned units take less memory i believe.

As to wood 'farming' I've already created a wood farm, all it really needs is a model that represents a grove of trees. Tho it would be nice if they grew wood similar to AoE's sheep, we could just set their build time to be very long, and possibly change the build animation for just them to be more like trees growing out of the ground. My stone and gold farms on the other hand really make no sense.

Edited July 17, 2013 by chaosislife

[Jubalbarca]

Unless the garrisoning had an accompanying anim it would look really quite boring that way though; and if they're all in your city, well then it's sort of your job to protect your economy.

Gold farms make sense (cash crops) - for trees what I'd like to see would be tree growth naturally occurring in areas of the map where there wasn't significant building, so the wood tends to replenish over time (which is after all how forests generally work, particularly on timescales such as that of going from a tiny village to a city).