New Faction - Polans (western)

[Raf1976]

I would like to introduce new faction in 0 AD which are Polans (western). In the 9th century the Polans united several West Slavic groups (Pomeranians, Mazovians, Slezans, Vistulans etc). The union led by the Piast Dynasty developed into the Kingdom of Poland, whose name derives from that of the Polans.

The Polans believed in many slavic gods - the most importent was - Świętowit -God of war, fertility and abundance (a four-headed god with two heads looking forward and two back.)

The Polans fought mostly against German tribes and Russian ones.

I am just wondering how I can start this project, ghraphics, animation etc or maybe there are some tools which I can use it, or for example I can use already one of the faction and then "apply a new graphics on it). I am not programmer, but I am quite good at GIMP (open source graphic software) but I am not an artist. I wish to help in some way to start new faction - Polans. I would be grateful if you give me any suggestions how I can start?.

[Pureon]

I would suggest you begin collecting historical information and create concept sketches (units, buildings) for starters. 0 A.D. is currently based in 500BC to 0AD, so you'll need to consider that when designing new factions.

[Lion.Kanzen]

we need 5th century AD factions as max limit

[Raf1976]

Thanks for reply - so maybe Slavs (Sclavenes or Slavic people ) - they were ancestors of all Slavic countries in the middle and Eastern Europe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs

Concept for Slavs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Slavs#Physical_appearance Physical appearance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Slavs#Warfare Warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Slavs#Settlements Settlements

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Slavs#Society Society

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Slavs#Religion Religion

Procopius of Caesarea completed his three works on Emperor Justinian I's reign (Buildings, History of the Wars, and Secret History) in the 550s. Each book contains detailed information on the raids by Sclavenes and Antes against the Eastern Roman Empire, but the History of the Wars provides a comprehensive description of them, including their beliefs, customs, and dwellings.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Raf1976

[Lion.Kanzen]

Thanks for reply - so maybe Slavs (Sclavenes or Slavic people ) - they were ancestors of all Slavic countries in the middle and Eastern Europe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs

Concept for Slavs

http://en.wikipedia....ical_appearance Physical appearance

http://en.wikipedia....y_Slavs#Warfare Warfare

http://en.wikipedia....avs#Settlements Settlements

http://en.wikipedia....y_Slavs#Society Society

http://en.wikipedia...._Slavs#Religion Religion

Procopius of Caesarea completed his three works on Emperor Justinian I's reign (Buildings, History of the Wars, and Secret History) in the 550s. Each book contains detailed information on the raids by Sclavenes and Antes against the Eastern Roman Empire, but the History of the Wars provides a comprehensive description of them, including their beliefs, customs, and dwellings.

that is best

[Kimball]

I am just wondering how I can start this project, ghraphics, animation etc or maybe there are some tools which I can use it, or for example I can use already one of the faction and then "apply a new graphics on it). I am not programmer, but I am quite good at GIMP (open source graphic software) but I am not an artist. I wish to help in some way to start new faction - Polans. I would be grateful if you give me any suggestions how I can start?.

Starting a project like this takes a decent amount of coordination and planning. First, you'll need to start putting together a design document for your new faction. If you study the existing design documents for each faction, you'll begin to develop an understanding for what types of units you'll need to create.

The programming for a new faction is relatively simple (mainly XML, but you can use the Actor Editor tool to avoid it). If this sounds like it's over your head, it should be relatively easy for you to find someone who is capable of handling this and has a bit of free time to help you on your endeavor.

The art will be the most challenging part of your project - especially finding a talented 3D artist to model the faction's architecture. Your understanding of GIMP may help you to create unit textures. I'd recommend skimming through the entirety of that document to get a good feel for what goes in to the art in this game.

Overall, if you're driven to make it happen, you can make your dream a reality. Best of luck with your idea, and if you have any questions, we're here to help!

[desmotes]

I'd say Slavs would merely be a Celtic faction - though they are ethnically and culturally different (and indeed are a considerable ethnicity), gameplay would be pretty much the same - Slavs also never have been a considerable military power AFAIK; it's actually no surprise the word "slave" is directly derived from "Slav".

They haven't been battled in a narrow sense of the word, but just "pushed aside" from the rising powers of Franks, Saxons or later the Teutonic Order, Western Slavic areas "colonized" by German settlers (you probably know about the Piper of Hameln, a Grimm's fairytale that is based on the fact that 130 young adults left the town to settle in the Uckermark region in todays Eastern Germany; the Byzantines in the south and the Vikings that founded the Kievan Rus (which might be the root of "Russia" and "Belarus") "liberated" the city from Khazar Khaganate. They played only little role in history, at least of those early days - it would be more manifest to include Saxons as a tribe: with the Angles they are the ethnic base of modern Britain, settled among the whole baltic area, merging with the population, same for southeastern Europe, where "Saxon" became a synonym of "miner" and resisted the armies of Charlemagne. Yet both are more medievalish tribes, just like the Byzantines and I think they don't fit the "0 AD" setting...

This way or the other, there would be little chance to have them engaged in bigger scenarios.

[Raf1976]

I'd say Slavs would merely be a Celtic faction - though they are ethnically and culturally different (and indeed are a considerable ethnicity), gameplay would be pretty much the same - Slavs also never have been a considerable military power AFAIK; it's actually no surprise the word "slave" is directly derived from "Slav".

They haven't been battled in a narrow sense of the word, but just "pushed aside" from the rising powers of Franks, Saxons or later the Teutonic Order, Western Slavic areas "colonized" by German settlers (you probably know about the Piper of Hameln, a Grimm's fairytale that is based on the fact that 130 young adults left the town to settle in the Uckermark region in todays Eastern Germany; the Byzantines in the south and the Vikings that founded the Kievan Rus (which might be the root of "Russia" and "Belarus") "liberated" the city from Khazar Khaganate. They played only little role in history, at least of those early days - it would be more manifest to include Saxons as a tribe: with the Angles they are the ethnic base of modern Britain, settled among the whole baltic area, merging with the population, same for southeastern Europe, where "Saxon" became a synonym of "miner" and resisted the armies of Charlemagne. Yet both are more medievalish tribes, just like the Byzantines and I think they don't fit the "0 AD" setting...

I am sorry to tell you but your historical knowlege is very little when it comes to slavic culture. Slavs - "Słowianie" this word comes from word "słowo" - which means "word" - not "slave" - Słowianie because all tribes used the same words -" słowa" when they were speaking. Slavic tribes especially Polish tribes called German tribes "niemcy" - which means people who can't speak in way that you can understand literally "mute". If you had known Polish, Russion, Chech or Slovak or even Serbian You would know that Słowianie means - people who speaks the same language.

They haven't been battled in a narrow sense of the word, but just "pushed aside" - that is not true because all middle and Eastern Europe was and is Slavic and never I say - Słowianie - (Slavs) never were conquered, by German, Saxons and Celtics tribes or even Romans (in period 500 BC till 1000 AD) - But England was conquered by Romans then by Saxons and then by Normans - three times - Celtics (In France - Gauls) were conquered by Romans, German tribes were conquered by Franks etc

Romans merchants were buying amber (in the ancient - the most expensive one) from Baltic sea, there was a famous trade route http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Amber_Road which was very very important for Romans through Slavic territory.

In the Roman times Slavs existed and Romans were aware of them. Romans traded with them. Slavs also organized battles and sold their enemies as slaves in Roman Empire.

There are plenty examples - you should read more about it. But I assume that everyone in here has got his favourite civilization - mine are Slavs

Thanks

Edited December 6, 2012 by Raf1976

[zoot]

Slavs - "Słowianie" this word comes from word "słowo" - which means "word" - not "slave" - Słowianie because all tribes used the same words -" słowa" when they were speaking.

He said the word "slave" comes from "Slav" (which I believe is generally accepted), not the other way around.

[Raf1976]

He said the word "slave" comes from "Slav" (which I believe is generally accepted), not the other way around.

Sorry my mistake - Slavs sold slaves in Roman Empire, most these slaves were Slavs from other Slavic tribes which were conquered by another Slavic tribes - therefore word "slave" comes from "Slav" and word Slav from "Słowianie"

Thanks

[lilstewie]

I want an African civ.

Like Kush. They were fighting with the Persians, etc.

http://en.wikipedia....Kingdom_of_Kush

Or the Qin empire in China.

Edited December 6, 2012 by lilstewie

[desmotes]

Well, I guess the point on slaves is already made, so on settlements: Slavs once settled all over Eastern Germany up to almost the Hamburg area, then German settlement and "colonisation" (the "Ostsiedlung") began and slowly Slavic tribes were pushed eastwards, towards Poland, German hegemony over main parts of the "Western Slavic" area was established without a military campaign - so you are right in saying "they haven't been conquered", but the territory was indeed seized.

What you describe as the interaction of Slavs and Romans I don't disavow, but this can't be compared to the massive military campaigns of Romans, Anglo-Saxons and Normans in Britain or those in Gaul and Germany, which led to building the Hadrian's Wall in Scotland and the Limes in Germany, nor with the massive attempts of Charlemagne to subdue the Saxons (and still I'd refuse to have them in).

And you just shouldn't get me wrong: It's got nothing to do with personal bias or some kind of racistic affection towards the Slavs that I speak against having them in. It's just that I think they didn't play the major role in the ancient world to justify having them in. And I'm just some player, so it's just one opinion among the many.

Addendum: For the same reason, btw, it doesn't make sense to include Germans: They only once united against the common enemy Rome, under Arminius (or Herman), but disbanded as soon as the legions were down. They traded with Rome (including the same Amber), pissed them off, raided others and such - but as a culture they just didn't play a major role; Gauls and Britons were much more united as a culture then (north-)eastern ethnicities of that time.

Edited December 6, 2012 by desmotes

[Raf1976]

Thanks for all opinions I think if the game is set up in period 500 BC - 500 AD it should have all civilizations which existed that time - it is not important only which civilization did this or that or was more important or look better or was involved in war all the time and big battles for this you (players) can use Scenarios.

But we should stick to the historical truth that those civilizations existed (not only Romans) and the rest when it comes to an enjoyment of playing game is a matter of imagination of the players.

As a player I would love to think that big Roman Empire could be deafeted by Slavs or othe civilization which I choose - Do players always play according historical facts? Some yes but some want something different.

You enjoy playing because everytime when you play ,you can change history at least on your computer. I take civilization which was not important in ancient times but im my game I will make it powerful and that's wonderful about RTS games.

Thanks

Edited December 7, 2012 by Raf1976

[zoot]

Adding new civilizations is no small matter. It takes tons of dedicated work from 3D modellers to create all the new buildings, units etc. So the first thing you will want to check before doing more elaborate planning is to check if any modellers are even interested in doing that work. After that, there is the issue of whether it makes the game more fun - we all want to see our favorite/ancestral civilizations in the game, but what is the point in a game having a million civilizations that does almost the same thing gameplay-wise? Does it really add anything to the game or does it just make it more confusing and bloated?

Edited December 7, 2012 by zoot

[Raf1976]

Adding new civilizations is no small matter. It takes tons of dedicated work from 3D modellers to create all the new buildings, units etc. So the first thing you will want to check before doing more elaborate planning is to check if any modellers are even interested in doing that work. After that, there is the issue of whether it makes the game more fun - we all want to see our favorite/ancestral civilizations in the game, but what is the point in a game having a million civilizations that does almost the same thing gameplay-wise? Does it really add anything to the game or does it just make it more confusing and bloated?

It is truth what you said - I don't know yet if there are some people who can do 3D models for free or in their spare times I must do some research first

thanks

Edited December 7, 2012 by Raf1976

[wraitii]

Arguably, "civilization" encompasses both an actual empire/kingdom/nation and the associated culture. Hence, the game would not really need separate civilizations for every single, say, Persian, entities.

Ultimately, this could lead to allowing to have all civilizations that existed in the time-frame and that were different enough to warrant being clearly separate (the difference exists between britons and gauls. But that's probably the lower limit. Furthermore, this is also why there is only one "roman" civilization currently and not a "roman pre 250BC, roman post 250BC" or whatever thing).

However, this indeed takes time. Making a civilization is not only actually adding it. It's doing the research, and by that I mean actual usable research about the possible units, buildings, technologies, props, drawbacks, assuming this research even exists in a readable language (if not, one might have to ask a specialist, which will cost time, perhaps money).

Once research is done, there is the issue of modeling and texturing, which takes a lot of time and resources. Then you need to add the civilization to the game, to make it balanced (again all other civs, which furthermore increases the complexity exponentially), make it varied enough to be interesting beyond a name. Perhaps add it to a few scenarios or make custom scenarios.

It will probably take the team 3 Alphas (6/8 good months) all in all to add the Mauryan civilization, which is pretty well known, and the whole art team is basically focused on that. If we had to add the numerous other possible civs (off the top of my head, at least 3 south american civs, 2 north american civs, a minimum of 3 European civs, 4 Asian, 1/2 indonesian), it would take us literal years.

Choices had to be done, and choices had to be logical: thus the focus was set on the mediterranean, center of the "known" antiquity in most of the western world.

So if you want to do the research for a civ, do by all means. But remember that it's a long process, somewhat tedious in parts.