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desmotes

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  1. First: I think it's a matter of politeness to answer somebody that opens up the discussion again and expects an answer, so, after checking in again, I saw two answers and chose to post back. And so it went on, since people obviously feel they need to persuade me into some kind of holocaust denial, because they chose to ignore modern history. Second: Hitler might have flipped and mirrored the original swastika. But fascism didn't end with Hitler. All kinds of variations of the Swastika have been made up (pre-existent and fictional) by Nazis and Neo-Nazis to identify with the Third Reich. There
  2. I made my point and obviously our points of view differ on that. To make your opinion absolute just shows how ignorant you are. I made the clear point that I always have to think about the Nazis and the Holocaust, when I see the swastika. Good for you, if you can ignore that, I can't. And I won't contribute to a project that spreads this Nazi propaganda, no matter if you consider it that or not! People also considered it not a crime to kill jews or sell Blacks as slaves - there have always been those who see and those who choose to ignore. Anyway, you won't change my point of view, this discu
  3. A rather stupid argument. I discussed it there and made a decision here that I won't share the scenario. It's not my fault, when people start discussing here, too.
  4. A generation which ignores history has no past — and no future. Robert A. Heinlein What you call "swastika-fear" is the refusal of a symbol that people do identify with, who then go around to kill people til the very day. Tolerating this propaganda means tolerating racist crime and Antisemitism. Anyway, do you know, what a "fig leaf" is? I think a "German version" would be just that - but I think in a country with a strong nationalist/racist movement and a long history of strong Antisemitism that wasn't forced to learn a lesson from WWII, this is perceived differently...
  5. Then your point is: Because video games have a tradition of using the Swastika for fun that is much older than the use of the Swastika by Nazis, they should be allowed to ignore this connotations? ___ Even if it ain't illegal, it's still more than questionable and I made a decision to not contribute to a project that has this (presumed?) proximity to Nazi propaganda. In the end, I can play it everytime I want and it's lots of fun - it won't become less fun by not sharing it openly. But it would suffer from being included in this game, like the game in toto already suffered much, at least to me
  6. In fact, if the game was in some way available in Germany with the Swastika included in it, it does make the game illegal, whether you like it or not. As someone who is quite familiar with the laws on this, I don't just trust blindly "some foreigner that has read the wikipedia and thinks he's a lawyer now". I didn't say: "I don't want to do something illegal", I said: "I don't want to be involved in this, because it is illegal". No, it's not "the real point". The real point is, according to German law, including the Swastika makes it "distribution of Nazi porpaganda", no matter, whether it i
  7. I didn't find the official publication yet, but, to use a right-wing/conservative newspaper as reliable source without suspicion of too much antifascist propaganda, here's what the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (one of the leading newspapers in Germany) said: http://www.faz.net/a...n-11747777.html Translation: Addendum: Prosecution of display of the swastica and such, where the offender couldn't be identified, don't go into this statitic, only when the actor could be found guilty of a political offense.
  8. So the City of Nuremberg, the BundesVerfassungsGericht (Federal Constitutional Court of Germany) and BundesGerichtshof (Federal Court of Justice of Germany) as quoted by leper, the StGB (German Criminal Code) and Federal Ministry of Domestic Affairs (for statistics about prosecution on use of Nazi symbols) are anti-right extreme institutions and not reliable? And why insist on a negligible detail at all, when it's such a sensible matter?
  9. There hasn't been too much significant court ruling cuz the law is pretty strict and there is little chance to win at court. There is lots of prosecution. According to official statistics there has to be about 10.000 cases a year of prosecuted use of swastica with an indisputable rightist background, and according to criticism of these statistics, there are lots of cases where the use of swasticas and alike are prosecuted without claiming a clear rightist background.
  10. I've already quotet the §86a of German StGB, which is the only reliable source thats really important. There have been a few lawsuits about the swastica, some artist that was found "not guilty" because he had built up a visible info-table that he dissociated himself from the Nazi ideology, the Falun Gong sect obviously also won a lawsuit, but they don't provide any info on the reasons, might have to do with religious freedom. The site "www.recht-gegen-rechts", an antifascist homepage driven by the city of Nuremberg, lawyers, policemen and antifascist activists, says tha swastica is "illegal in
  11. Ok, once more on the swastika: AFAIK (and I'm involved in the anti-fascist scene in Germany, I'm in contact with antifa activists etc, I've been studying history at the university - so I'm rather good informed, I think) there is no distinction between the swastica and the nazi symbol. Games are referred to as Art, but when it says "Art", the emphasis is on anti-fascist art and such, not pro-fascist or neutral art. A game that uses any of these symbols wouldn't be legalized by this, no matter whether historically accurate or not, when there is no classification of the symbol used provided along
  12. I just checked the §86 StGB and §86a StGB (for Germany) again and there is a part about it, that might be misunderstandable; It does say: The symbols used in the context of the Nazi ideology are banned, no matter the context they are actually used in, not symbols used in the Nazi context - the author of english wikipedia might have mistaken that. So a Swastica is always banned, not only in Nazi context. This refers to all symbols actually used, rotated, mirrored or in other way similar to them of banned parties, organisations and their successors. Especially 86a is important here, I'll stick w
  13. To German law, there is no difference between a Swastica and the "Hakenkreuz" Nazi symbol, there are also some derived and ancient German symbols banned due to use in Nazi propaganda til the very day, it's similar in Austria as fas as I know. There are two exception to this: In satire and political/historical depiction for educational purposes. Though the game has some kind of historical context, it's clearly entertainment, so the game would be illegal in Germany and players could be prosecuted for Nazi propaganda, if it's in the game, whether it can be toggled or not. Of course it would be ha
  14. Well, I guess the point on slaves is already made, so on settlements: Slavs once settled all over Eastern Germany up to almost the Hamburg area, then German settlement and "colonisation" (the "Ostsiedlung") began and slowly Slavic tribes were pushed eastwards, towards Poland, German hegemony over main parts of the "Western Slavic" area was established without a military campaign - so you are right in saying "they haven't been conquered", but the territory was indeed seized. What you describe as the interaction of Slavs and Romans I don't disavow, but this can't be compared to the massive milit
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