Nice Game , Nice Idea But...

[GustavoUlate80]

This is a nice game with a nice idea , but when you try it out , it is lifeless, the shadow rendering is not realistic ( shadow contrast is hardly seen where it should be) also , bloom, depth of field, per pixel lightning and high dynamic range (for fast computers) are required. Also you really require a physics engine in this game (the only thing in this until now is the water).(Also , making a new engine wouldn't have much sense since it would be reinventing the wheel, and it could be much better to improve (and in some ways possibly combine) other open source engines , for example a bullet engine rendering of the game, with also blender implementations (such as smoke and hair ) as a new physics engine for this game.If this is implemented , the job in the "game engine department" would possibly be to optimize these engines for the game

Edited April 12, 2011 by GustavoUlate80

[Mythos_Ruler]

Considering the game is only in the mid-Alpha stage, I think your criticisms are unwarranted. Shader support was recently added to the renderer, and graphical features like Bloom, distance fog, etc. will most likely be implemented in the future.

You must first realize that the goal of the project is not just to push out a game, but to experience game development from the ground-up. Most fans realize this and enjoy receiving snapshots of the game's development in the form of semi-regular Alpha releases. Our simulation system is uniquely extensible and easily moddable by even novice modders and aspiring developers.

So, you see that the goal is not to push out a game with all the latest bells and whistles. Our goals are broader than that. And besides, I don't see how HDR, ragdoll physics, and the like improved an RTS much at all, Age of Empires 3 being the prime example.

With all that in mind, if you have any specific suggestions on how to make the game less lifeless, then please let us know. We are continually improving the game and the development of the game is as much a community project as anything.

[GustavoUlate80]

I was actually not talking about ragdoll physics , I was talking about a physics engine , with wind ,cloth simulation , realistic effects ( such as fire )and also a more realistic lighting simulation (you should better advance from what other people have already made and make something better (from something that is free, open source and is almost literarily in front of you) than start from the beginning.If you want to improve a car design , you do not start by re inventing the steam engine, then the gasoline engine (and if you are doing a hibrid car , the electric engine also and the batteries and th generator),the car wheels,the brakes , etc. It is the same here , you are reinventing the wheel instead of improving it. My proposal is to use these free, open source physics , light simulation engines , improve them (combining and optimizing them), and give a much better looking game with much less effort and time , effort and time which could be used to further improve the game (not just in this area (and I am not thinking completely in this , just partially ) , but also in other programing such as the computer intelligence simulation/engine ( which I have not seen any open source , free artificial intelligence engine which could be used as an effective ai base in this game .).

Note :I am not telling people how to do things in any way , I am just making a recommendation to further improve the game and to give developers of the game less "stress time" making the game. And I also appologize for any possible misunderstanings putting this post/suggestion may have caused.

[Jubalbarca]

I dunno, in my opinion graphics don't make a game. I mean, cloth simulation? Wind? All they end up doing is eating memory and preventing people with lower-spec PCs playing what's really a very good game in the making. Most of the best games ever created, IMO, had very poor graphics. Thematic, challenging gameplay, interesting and innovative game mechanics; those are not the things which sell games in the shops, hence why game companies focus on them less than they used to. But they are the things that keep us playing games. If you take TW as an example, compare Empire to Rome for graphics and Empire's streets ahead. But most of Empire's players found the game really quite bland; Rome still has a thriving player base & mod community six years or so after release.

In addition, what you have to realise is that in modding and game design skills aren't necessarily transferrable. Some people are specialists in graphics; it'd be a rare programmer who could just down tools from building the graphics engine and suddenly start working on AI scripts. As such, and particularly given that this is a hobby for people rather than a commercial project, I suspect the 0AD team will prefer the challenge of building their own game.

[Pureon]

I completely agree with Jubalbarca.

Only a few days ago did we receive feedback that our graphics are too good and should be reduced

[Shield Bearer]

Yeah, particularly i don't see why we need cloth simulation or wind(though i think something like this is planned). We have a particle system that renders fire quite nicely for an RTS game, so thats cool. Distance Fog, Bloom and all that will come in time.

Keep in mind that we're not re-inventing the wheel here, we're designing a brand new car

[Jeru]

We are building a car from some scrap metal and with little more than some general information about how other cars are built (other manufacturers keep everything under the hood a secret). Our car can ignite and make a nice, slow drive around the block already.

I think we can be forgiven for not having chrome hubcaps and a rear spoiler (yet).

[feneur]

And not to forget, it's far more fun to create something of your own rather than just putting together pieces from a building kit

[oshron]

graphics are great and all, but as was said before, they dont make the game. if visible wind physics and cloth movement are feasible, then they should be added, but be put at the very bottom of the to-do list. we need to FINISH the darn game first

[Ykkrosh]

We do make use of lots of open source libraries, and if we added physics then we'd use an existing library rather than rewriting it from scratch. Integrating something like that is still a lot of work, though, and the benefit doesn't seem compelling enough yet.

Switching to a third-party rendering engine would be a lot more work than that (including the time taken to learn it, port all of our content to new file formats, etc), so for now I think it's less work to incrementally add features to our current custom rendering code.

Depth of field sounds fairly useless in an RTS game, since the whole world is at pretty much the same depth from the camera . Other things would be nice, but are probably less critical than getting the gameplay working first.

[plumo]

I agree with mythos. It's very interesting for someone who loves RTS games & history to follow up this project. The game is taking shape slowly but steadily, if i'll enjoy the final product as much as the process I'll be a happy man.

Age of Empires didnt need bloom and distant fog to become the inspiration of countless other games, like this one. Sadly 2D RTS games are a thing of the past...

[Macgruber]

graphics are great and all, but as was said before, they dont make the game. if visible wind physics and cloth movement are feasible, then they should be added, but be put at the very bottom of the to-do list. we need to FINISH the darn game first

In reality, simple animations rather than dynamic simulations should be more than enough.

[oshaylinux]

The way in which this game is developing is great. I personally am so tired of how the commercial game makers so focused on the over-the-top graphics and everything else just takes a "backseat". What's sad about, the buying customers insist on it being that way. It's shameful what the commercial gaming industry is releasing today and have the nerve to treat their paying customers like thieves.

0 A.D. is a modern marvel. It is a show case of excellent game play and beautiful graphics and it's still in its' Alfa stage of development. 0 A.D. is proof, that games in Linux can have beauty and without compromise.